Anima: Beyond Discussion Thread

[Antoniofer]

Hmm, I know it have changed, as I recall the latest version having altered the placing of the Shajad and Beryl (even if a little). Did stopped caring when my old PC's storage was wiped out.

But do not take that chart at face value, it was a personal project of mine, even if it got some input from the community from Discord.

 

[Robo432343]

if the soul in anima = concept, shouldn't they have high godly regen instead of mid godly?

 

[Antoniofer]

Well, The Nameless already have High-Godly regeneration, and he is currently the most difficult character with a sheet to kill (in terms of immortality at least I mean). Although, I recall Unknown threathering to kill him with the destruction of the Arcane, that when it happened, it would remove the concepts of life and death and ultimately end his existance.

 

[Robo432343]

Baal vs Yukari Yakumo

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Baal,_The_Gate_of_Hell vs https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Yukari_Yakumo SBA Speed Equal

vsbattles.com

 

[Antoniofer]

Notice the main issue with Anima matches involving high Gnosis characters: all fight revolves around discussing about hax concepts (like layering or nondurality) rather than the characters themselves; making these matches kind of boring (at least for me). That's why I prefer (or preferred, as I barely participate in matches) to use not so strong people, like minor monsters or characters like Galael or Raptor. You also have strong people that lack general haxes as well, like Kisidan.

 

[Robo432343]

is the soul flux 2-C?

 

[Antoniofer]

It was agreed long ago that the cosmology would be 2-C, however I already forgot the exact reasons behind all that, as well as how universes that is suppose to convey. Tier 2 and above is not my area of expertise, for much knowledgeable I could be about a verse.

 

[Robo432343]

Notice the main issue with Anima matches involving high Gnosis characters: all fight revolves around discussing about hax concepts (like layering or nondurality) rather than the characters themselves; making these matches kind of boring (at least for me). That's why I prefer (or preferred, as I barely participate in matches) to use not so strong people, like minor monsters or characters like Galael or Raptor. You also have strong people that lack general haxes as well, like Kisidan.

i know you probably hate discussing high gnosis character vs matches but i think i really messed up debating omega vs sonic and kratos in this thread

Strongest 5D Characters on the Wiki

How would Shiva and the Pokemon characters counter Bugs and Yakko's Plot Manipulation?

vsbattles.com

we need your help

 

[Antoniofer]

I rather not discuss about the semantics of the wiki's tiering system (whenever someone is 4-D or 5-D, or that nonesense), but I can tell you about Omega. What do you need to know?

 

[Robo432343]

I rather not discuss about the semantics of the wiki's tiering system (whenever someone is 4-D or 5-D, or that nonesense), but I can tell you about Omega. What do you need to know?

what his starting moves are

 

[Antoniofer]

I have an errand to do in a couple of minutes, so in the meanwhile I recommend you to look at Omega's sheet located on the Those Who Walked Among Us supplement.

 

[Antoniofer]

Now, Omega's modus operandi varies depending of the form he is fighting.

As Lucifer, he can performs up to 7 attacks per round: one with Longinus, and another with six of his dragon heads. Because once a head performs a breath attack he needs some time to recharge energies to perform another breath attack with the same head (15 seconds recharge time), he only perform one breath attack per round (or one every 3 seconds). Not much beyond that, the rest depends on his powers, and note that only one head is vulnerable per round (Omega choose who is the one that is vulnerable), while the rest are invulnerable; rehardless, Lucifer is always invulnerable as long one of his heads remain active, and ignore any kind of Resistance Check unless the attacker has more Gnosis than him.

As for The Lord of Infinity, he (potentially) appears after Lucifer is defeated, and he combat still is radically different than the Lucifer's form. While relative healthy he uses his 1st level ki techs, and as he receives damage he uses the 2nd levels techs; only when his To the Limit ability triggers (25% of his maximum LP in game terms) he uses his Lv 3 techniques. Note that regradless he is a strategist and may shift between techs and other powers, and can also make use Chaos Meister (although personally this is not a good power) or using Longinus to slice through reality (this takes a full-round attack, but it ignores defender armor and works regardless of distance).

 

[Robo432343]

Now, Omega's modus operandi varies depending of the form he is fighting.

As Lucifer, he can performs up to 7 attacks per round: one with Longinus, and another with six of his dragon heads. Because once a head performs a breath attack he needs some time to recharge energies to perform another breath attack with the same head (15 seconds recharge time), he only perform one breath attack per round (or one every 3 seconds). Not much beyond that, the rest depends on his powers, and note that only one head is vulnerable per round (Omega choose who is the one that is vulnerable), while the rest are invulnerable; rehardless, Lucifer is always invulnerable as long one of his heads remain active, and ignore any kind of Resistance Check unless the attacker has more Gnosis than him.

As for The Lord of Infinity, he (potentially) appears after Lucifer is defeated, and he combat still is radically different than the Lucifer's form. While relative healthy he uses his 1st level ki techs, and as he receives damage he uses the 2nd levels techs; only when his To the Limit ability triggers (25% of his maximum LP in game terms) he uses his Lv 3 techniques. Note that regradless he is a strategist and may shift between techs and other powers, and can also make use Chaos Meister (although personally this is not a good power) or using Longinus to slice through reality (this takes a full-round attack, but it ignores defender armor and works regardless of distance).

so if character A is trying to use information manipulation on omega for example, only the avatar would be affected and not his true form?

 

[Antoniofer]

I believe that depends of the extentions of the IM of the user.

 

[Robo432343]

so someone who has normal invulnerability negation cant negate lucifers invulnerability unless they have higher gnosis than him?

 

[Antoniofer]

That would be a delicated subject; in verse, the only ways to bypass that Lucifer invulnerability are: having Gn 45 or higher, or having Gn EX; there may be other ways to bypass it, like it is case with Nameless, but otherwise is not possible or unknown.

However, users from the wiki may consider that NLF, and disregard the invulnerability. It woulbe up to you and them to reach a consensus whenever someone could bypass it or not, either by arguing about layers or defining the Gn of the foreign character.

 

[Robo432343]

Is Longinus a magic based weapon?

 

[Antoniofer]

It's what is known as a Pilar of Souls, one of the 11 weapons that Imperum dropped in Gaia as part of one of their experiments.

Magic in the sense of wizardly or spellcasting? No. But is a device of techno magical origin (that is, Imperium's technomagic is not mere magic).

 

[LazerDim8000]

That would be a delicated subject; in verse, the only ways to bypass that Lucifer invulnerability are: having Gn 45 or higher, or having Gn EX; there may be other ways to bypass it, like it is case with Nameless, but otherwise is not possible or unknown.

However, users from the wiki may consider that NLF, and disregard the invulnerability. It woulbe up to you and them to reach a consensus whenever someone could bypass it or not, either by arguing about layers or defining the Gn of the foreign character.

This is nice to hear
@Robo432343 this could make the nameless a strong contender for a spot in strongest 2c

 

[Robo432343]

It's what is known as a Pilar of Souls, one of the 11 weapons that Imperum dropped in Gaia as part of one of their experiments.

Magic in the sense of wizardly or spellcasting? No. But is a device of techno magical origin (that is, Imperium's technomagic is not mere magic).

But magic is the element that acts as a concept to everything and is the basis for every other kind of energy, action and reaction, encompassing all elements of creation
wouldn't this include Longinus?

 

[Antoniofer]

Magic is a form to manipulate the Sea of Souls to obtain a desired effect, but it does not encompasses all forms of energies. There another two main subsystem out there, psychic matrixes and ki, and they work independent of the use of magic and vice-versa.

In some way, magic and summoning is mastery over one's soul, psychics is mastery over one's mind and ki and nemesis mastery over one's body.

Cannot say much about Imperium's technology, the book that is suppose to explain divine science has not come out yet (nor will come any time soon).

 

[Antoniofer]

@Robo432343 this could make the nameless a strong contender for a spot in strongest 2c

Maybe because he is the protegonist of his own standalone spin-off, but is kind of a letdown that John is the only character here hogging any Anima discussion is vsmatches; his official sheet is also not great, kinda of meh actually, as most sheets in the PWG are. Ergo and Celia as protagonized their respective games and no onw use then (yes, Celia doe snot have profile, but I bet most people that participate in this thread have not heard of her).

 

[LazerDim8000]

Maybe because he is the protegonist of his own standalone spin-off, but is kind of a letdown that John is the only character here hogging any Anima discussion is vsmatches; his official sheet is also not great, kinda of meh actually, as most sheets in the PWG are. Ergo and Celia as protagonized their respective games and no onw use then (yes, Celia doe snot have profile, but I bet most people that participate in this thread have not heard of her).

Going off the sheets yeah they did my boy dirty but you know how it goes on here, the better hax you have the more you carry your verse and his high godly immortality,NEP 2 and death manipulation makes him very hard to kill him thanks to nemesis. I think omega is the one that’s carrying the verse right now though, he’s number 8 or 9 on strongest 5d non Smurfs.

Also, is the nameless high godly and NEP 2 still substantial ? After evaluating the NEP 2 justifications it relates more closely to NEP 3 or 1.

 

[Antoniofer]

Also, is the nameless high godly and NEP 2 still substantial ? After evaluating the NEP 2 justifications it relates more closely to NEP 3 or 1.

We were discussing that issue with DT, but we never got that concluded; Hl3 did oppose the change of his NEP type.

Personally, I don't he has NEP and it mostly comes from people taking the Nemesis description at face value. John has never been referred as an incorporeal being or even spiritual (although he can turn temporary intangible); he using ki suggests he is as abstract (is an extrict requirement to have a body, have a soul and be alive in order to use ki).

 

[Antoniofer]

Going off the sheets yeah they did my boy dirty but you know how it goes on here, the better hax you have the more you carry your verse and his high godly immortality,NEP 2 and death manipulation makes him very hard to kill him thanks to nemesis.

Problem is that he lacks offensive efficiency, something very important in Anima at high levels. Sure he has the means to kill anything, but has no way to improve his combat ability beyond using Fatigue points, so against his equals he is not very good because his targets would have means to dodge his attacks or, if they have access to ki, perform a powerful technique and end the battle fast (although Nameless at least have the emans to decelerate this through ki nullification, but is only temporary). See his battle against Orochi as said in Discord for example: sure, he can bypass its existential barrier, but Nameless just cause too little damage to end Orochi in one round, and after attcking the creature well... he gets subsequently massacred by 8 simultaneus attacks.

If he had access to some area attack technique enough to cover at least half Orochi's size (or a creature or similar size or smaller), or that improves his base technique damage (235 in Nameless' case), he could have finished Orochi in one round. But for his bad luck, he did not developed any supporting tech, and is not very good dealing with damage resistance creature. Now you notice why Nameless's self-granted job is not very rentable and the is no record of killing someone important.

 

[Robo432343]

And his range is also bad

 

[Robo432343]

Shouldn't Baal scale to Johns high godly regeneration?

 

[Antoniofer]

Don't think so, Baal has never been killed that hard in the past. At worst, it was the avatar which has been destroyed.

 

[Robo432343]

but wouldn't characters who are gnosis 45-50 have the same if not better regeneration than him?

 

[Antoniofer]

No, Nameless is immortal due the special circunstances, in the same way Hringham is. Creatures with at least Gnosis 35 have a special immortality (they can't be killed by beings whose Gnosis is over 20 points below them), but Nameless' immortality is way above that and granted due different factors.

 

[Robo432343]

where does Baals nonexistent physiology come from?

 

[Antoniofer]

He is not nonexistent as far I know, he is like half-way between an Aeon and an Arcana.

 

[Robo432343]

what are some passive abilities Baal has?

 

[Antoniofer]

His existential defense and control of fate abilities are passive. Likewise, it counts with the Auspice gnostic ability.

 

[Robo432343]

what does existence defense do?

 

[Antoniofer]

what does existence defense do?

Existential Defense: Baal does not
block or dodge in a conventional manner.
Simply, it alters the reality in a way that the
attacks do not reach him either stopping
them or moving them away from its path.
Therefore, Baal does not apply any penalty
to its ability for negatives that may exist
for blocking or dodging, nor for additional
defenses in the same round.

 

[LazerDim8000]

And his range is also bad

To be fair, all the high tiers should have 2c range for soul flux manipulation.

 

[Antoniofer]

The Soul Flux is an overlaped reality, it would not be same that affecting it that affecting something certain distance away in the same plane. Plus, is mostly beings that use magic, summoning, and few gnostic abilities could manipulate it to some extend.

 

[LazerDim8000]

The Soul Flux is an overlaped reality, it would not be same that affecting it that affecting something certain distance away in the same plane. Plus, is mostly beings that use magic, summoning, and few gnostic abilities could manipulate it to some extend.

Would nameless qualify?

 

[Antoniofer]

I'm afraid no, he still have no ranged abilities beyond his Nemesis aura (500 meters). Just in the game hw have some ranged attacks, but take into account the videogame have abilities altered so to make it playable. You can see his abilities in the PWG, but in case you have no access to it, you can read his sheet here.