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7-B Tournament: Path to the Throne

XSOULOFCINDERX said:
Do Glass Cannons Count? If so then I nominate MCU Iron Man in his fifth Key.
Click to expand...
Just a small concern.
Key: Tony Stark | Mark 1 | Mark 2-5 | Mark 6-45 | Mark 46-47
Tier: 9-C | 9-B | 8-C | Low 7-C, higher with Charged Repulsors, 7-B with lasers | At least 8-C, High 8-C with unibeam, 7-B with lasers

Perhaps I'm misreading, but is Tony's 5th key not the one where's 8-C/High 8-C, & 7-B with lasers? Or is something wonky with his profile?
 
Imaginym said:
Just a small concern.
Key: Tony Stark | Mark 1 | Mark 2-5 | Mark 6-45 | Mark 46-47
Tier: 9-C | 9-B | 8-C | Low 7-C, higher with Charged Repulsors, 7-B with lasers | At least 8-C, High 8-C with unibeam, 7-B with lasers

Perhaps I'm misreading, but is Tony's 5th key not the one where's 8-C/High 8-C, & 7-B with lasers? Or is something wonky with his profile?
Click to expand...
There's a key between the two on his AP, see it? His Key Section itself is wonky.
 
XSOULOFCINDERX said:
There's a key between the two on his AP, see it? His Key Section itself is wonky.
Click to expand...
Looking at Attack Potency:
Small Town level (Can harm those who can harm him, can harm himself with his own repulsor blasts, should have the same full-thrust capabilities as his previous armor), higher with Charged Repulsors, City level with lasers |

Ah, the key that corresponds to that Attack Potency, right?
Anyway, hopefully his wonky key section gets fixed soon. No offense meant.
 
Due to both characters in the Sixteenth-Finals Round 4 having a poor state of their profiles, they were replaced with new contestants by the respective backers.
With that said:

Sixteenth-Finals Round 4 [REDO] - Rathalos vs Chief Beisa (Completed)​
 
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I forgot to announce it, but Weekly brought it up. After some thinking, I did not feel comfortable keeping Ozpin in, so I'm removing him from the tourney.
I was unaware of his immense skill and the context behind it. At this stage, he no-diff skill-stomps the rest of the fighters, which doesn't make it very fun. Weekly didn't have a replacement fighter, so they'll have a secured spot of a future tournament instead.
 
Wonder is Ozpin actually could stomp Sibylla. Might be something for an extra match 🤔
 
My bets are on my girl Sibylla. Some of her more difficult opponents already got luckily eliminated. (e.g. Pupitar)
By now she has good chances with her toolkit.
 
DontTalkDT said:
My bets are on my girl Sibylla. Some of her more difficult opponents already got luckily eliminated. (e.g. Pupitar)
By now she has good chances with her toolkit.
Click to expand...
I certainly don't see her losing to the rest of characters, Vi can't really put her down (or actually do much against her), the same with Brook (do to her resistances and regen, plus amps that counter his own speed amp), maybe Beisa depending in how he use his powers?
 
Well, since Brook has 54 Mt in AP he can actually put her down, even if likely not quickly. But I think she has ways to deal with him in return.
 
Brook can just do more damage then Low-Mid can cover with both ludicrous piercing damage and blitz amps you know

And unless she's uber skilled Beisa can pretty much overwhelm her rather easily
 
I don't think so, but we'll get there when we get there. (Let me at least say that piercing damage is useless as argument as, due to resistances, Sibylla's durability against piercing and cutting attacks is in fact higher than against blunt damage)
 
DontTalkDT said:
I don't think so, but we'll get there when we get there. (Let me at least say that piercing damage is useless as argument as, due to resistances, Sibylla's durability against piercing and cutting attacks is in fact higher than against blunt damage)
Click to expand...
Proof of that piercing resistance dealing with Supersonic swords when we get there?
 
DontTalkDT said:
Brah, why would the sword being supersonic have an impact on resistance? Speed and resistance are unrelated, it's basically extra durability... what a weird take.
And like, the one Sibylla has the best anti-piercing/slashing feats against is literally a supersonic sword lol
Click to expand...
DT, do I need to go into a multi-paragraph long rant about how Piercing Damage works, or are you gonna take my word that speed very much matters and be thankful we're equalizing to the slower opponent here?

Good.
 
DaReaperMan said:
DT, do I need to go into a multi-paragraph long rant about how Piercing Damage works, or are you gonna take my word that speed very much matters and be thankful we're equalizing to the slower opponent here?
Click to expand...
I have no idea what your idea on how piercing damage works is lol
Unless you're trying to argue for some weird coupling of AP with speed due to acceleration = force stuff, but then that's rejected since forever.
As far as the wiki is concerned piercing damage is just regular AP that is unquantified higher due to more energy on smaller surface area. Speed isn't involved.

Edit: Like, we explicitly made decisions that don't allow any form of coupling AP with Speed.
 
We'll get to the matches guys. Everyone gets a chance to lose against Sibylla. And yes, I gotta talk smack. Where else is the fun?
If I start arguing here the matches lose their purpose.
 
DontTalkDT said:
I have no idea what your idea on how piercing damage works is lol
Unless you're trying to argue for some weird coupling of AP with speed due to acceleration = force stuff, but then that's rejected since forever.
As far as the wiki is concerned piercing damage is just regular AP that is unquantified higher due to more force on smaller surface area. Speed isn't involved.
Click to expand...
Okay DT, let me give you a good example.

Bullets, depending on caliber and shit with circumstances, they can even harm High 8-Cs, whereas 50 Cal bullets are 20K Joules on the apsolute high-end.

That is Supersonic+, taking the best of both worlds, despite there not being a bullet as such, 20K joules and 923 Meters a second.

Going from about 2.1 Mach straight to the baseline of Rela+(Since Brook is indeed damn close to that rating), the difference is 208102x. Six digits.

That means that, if speed was equalized to Brook, Sybilla would be facing piercing damage WAY higher then what she's ever even seen.

So now let's talk about how speed factors in, using Bullets as an example again, with a very simple doctrine you'll hear any decent gun owner who's tested shit say: Speed beats armor.

Not Joules, speed. If a Supersonic+ bullet beats armor thicker then my Warcraft profiles, a Relativistic sword beats damn near everything.

To argue otherwise is to argue against the laws of physics this wiki functions on in the 3-D tiers, which would be a double standard, so you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

And before you say it, blunt attacks are an entirely different animal
 
DaReaperMan said:
Okay DT, let me give you a good example.

Bullets, depending on caliber and shit with circumstances, they can even harm High 8-Cs, whereas 50 Cal bullets are 20K Joules on the apsolute high-end.

That is Supersonic+, taking the best of both worlds, despite there not being a bullet as such, 20K joules and 923 Meters a second.

Going from about 2.1 Mach straight to the baseline of Rela+(Since Brook is indeed damn close to that rating), the difference is 208102x. Six digits.

That means that, if speed was equalized to Brook, Sybilla would be facing piercing damage WAY higher then what she's ever even seen.

So now let's talk about how speed factors in, using Bullets as an example again, with a very simple doctrine you'll hear any decent gun owner who's tested shit say: Speed beats armor.

Not Joules, speed. If a Supersonic+ bullet beats armor thicker then my Warcraft profiles, a Relativistic sword beats damn near everything.

To argue otherwise is to argue against the laws of physics this wiki functions on in the 3-D tiers, which would be a double standard, so you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

And before you say it, blunt attacks are an entirely different animal
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's rejected since ages, since we do indeed suspend the laws of physics on this matter. We have a rule on the KE page of how fiction treats characters going fast as not necessarily making them stronger, which is why we don't use KE feats unless it's about huge things getting moved. In fiction speed and power is unrelated.

What you brought up isn't new. It is in fact also not unique to piercing damage, although it shows a little less in blunt damage. What you discovered by accident there is that durability in reality is way more complex than our tiering system. (Believe me, I have recently looked at papers for crack propagation through solids and simulating that needs 50+, likely 100+, pages of mathematical papers lol)
In reality energy is just one factor to any collision-style impact event (although, not a bad approximation in high-end cases). For any impact deceleration, which due to F=MA is the same as force and due to being applied over an area also is proportional to pressure, is relevant (amongst other things, like the mentioned amount of surface area). And since deceleration tends to be roughly proportional to speed... yeah, you get it.

However, we had debates about the more advanced durability mechanics and rejected it, because a) well, as said, we just don't accept that speed in fiction is proportional to power. But more important b) a detailed handling of proper physics is impossible for us (and, when it comes to fictional feats, anyone else). Our tiering system is simplified to an energy-based one for simplicity.

Basically, what your argument unbeknownst to you suggests, is just that we should throw out our tiering system, which was debated and rejected.
 
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DontTalkDT said:
Yeah, that's rejected since ages, since we do indeed suspend the laws of physics on this matter. We have a rule on the KE page of how fiction treats characters going fast as not necessarily making them stronger, which is why we don't use KE feats unless it's about huge things getting moved. In fiction speed and power is unrelated.

What you brought up isn't new. It is in fact also not unique to piercing damage, although it shows a little less in blunt damage. What you discovered by accident there is that durability in reality is way more complex than our tiering system. (Believe me, I have recently looked at papers for crack propagation through solids and simulating that needs 50+, likely 100+, pages of mathematical papers lol)
In reality energy is just one factor to any collision-style impact event (although, not a bad approximation in high-end cases). For any impact deceleration, which due to F=MA is the same as force and due to being applied over an area also is proportional to pressure, is relevant. And since deceleration tends to be roughly proportional to speed... yeah, you get it.

However, we had debates about the more advanced durability mechanics and rejected it, because a) well, as said, we just don't accept that speed in fiction is proportional to power. But more important b) a detailed handling of proper physics is impossible for us (and, when it comes to fictional feats, anyone else). Our tiering system is simplified to an energy-based one for simplicity.

Basically, what your argument unbeknownst to you suggests, is just that we should throw out our tiering system, which was debated and rejected.
Click to expand...
Interesting...

Time to get a degree is physics just to spite the wiki
 
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