7-B [Path to the Throne] Tournament: Iron Man vs Frogadier

[GoldenScorpions]

[Path to the Throne] 7-B tournament
Round 6​

Characters	Attack Potency	Votes
Iron Man (Mark 46-47) (Marvel Cinematic Universe)	47.8 Megatons
Frogadier (Pokémon)	45.88 Megatons	7 (@DontTalkDT, @Popted2, @Spinoirr, @GlaceonGamez471, @XSOULOFCINDERX , @Imaginym, @GoldenScorpions)
Inconclusive

• The match takes place at Mont Saint-Michel, during high tide. A barrier seals the island 200 meters away.
• Starting distance is 10 meters, on the sandy part at the bottom of the island town.
• Speed is equalized
• Characters have their standard equipment.
• No knowledge of each other. No civilians or vehicles in the area.
• Stat amps cap at 100 Megatons. Stat reduction cap at 6.3 Megatons
• Victory is achieved under what is defined by SBA.
  • Matches have a time limit of 12 hours. Past that, any decisive immobilization or incapacitation for more than 10 seconds becomes a victory condition.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Okay, so this is gonna be a rough one. Tony dies if he gets hit even once but at this point in the series he's gotten really good at dodging as shown in Iron Man 2 against all the hammer drones but I'm pretty sure Frogadier is gonna be even harder to dodge but not impossible. Tony's first shot at damage is using his repulsors and when he sees those don't do anything he'll immediately go for the lasers along with summoning the Iron Legion to aid him as then he can pretty much just fire at Frogadier from every angle. It also helps that he has the ability to quickly analyze an opponent's fighting style, even with armors not built for combat as shown in Civil War, so that he can counter the opponent as best as he possibly can.

 

[Imaginym]

I was eager to find out who Frogadier's opponent would be, after having read the tournament roster (I love debating Pokemon Vs Matches that don't involve the Creation Trio & their associated Pokemon.), but finding out the opponent is an Iron Man, & from the MCU, no less? It's a little disheartening....

Anyway, Frogadier is 1 of those Pokemon that hasn't been in many games, & so, lacks Pokedex entries. Introduced in Gen 6, skipped over 3 generations in a row.

X Omega Ruby	It can throw bubble-covered pebbles with precise control, hitting empty cans up to a hundred feet away.
Y Alpha Sapphire	Its swiftness is unparalleled. It can scale a tower of more than 2,000 feet in a minute’s time.

....No behavioural info.
& its range & speed are likely better than those Pokedex feats for it, due to scaling.

Range: Standard melee range, extended melee range with Cut and Aerial Ace. Tens of kilometers with most attacks like Water Shuriken

....Although I do wish the profile gave KEYS for the Range for this evolutionary line instead of just listing Greninja's!

Frogadier (Pokémon) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

All of the notable Frogadier in the anime & manga have been trainer owned.
Its line also don't get to appear in any Mystery Dungeons, due to the last MD game being for Gen 5. Too late for Gen 5, & skipped over reappearing in other generations....

What about the behaviour of Frogadier's pre-evolution, Froakie? Perhaps some of that is applicable?

"Multiple Froakie appeared in a flashback in Cloudy Fate, Bright Future!. They saw one of their own, who would later become Ash's, as a disturbance to their group due to its strange and distant behavior, and attacked it as a result."

Even combing through Bulbapedia's detailed summary & looking at the screenshots gallery, I can't figure out if they used any moves or what tactic the Froakie group used.

There is A wild Froakie that we know the behaviour of... it's Ash's, which was technically wild before it joined him, &, as the linked episode revealed, was an outcast for its behaviour. To be specific:

Spoiler: Ash's Froakie's Flashback history

Olympia reveals that shortly after hatching, Froakie trained hard by itself and refused to associate with the other Froakie, being completely focused on becoming stronger. This brought it into conflict with the other Froakie and it became injured in the process, necessitating Nurse Joy to help it recover. From its interactions with Nurse Joy, Froakie realized that it needed to team up with a Pokémon Trainer to become even stronger. However, since it was already used to training by itself, it held high standards for the Trainers that chose it as a partner, and rejected all of them as being not strong enough. Olympia states that Froakie eventually found the quality it had been searching for in Ash, which was love - after Ash had showed concern for it when they first met. Ash is happy to see the bond he has with Frogadier reaffirmed.

Between that flashback stuff & being caught....

XY001 - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

When Ash was meeting Clement & Bonnie, the Froakie that'd become Ash's was watching from a building.

Spoiler: Later in that episode

Although Pikachu and Bunnelby both put up excellent fights against Team Rocket, Jessie's Wobbuffet uses Mirror Coat to block their efforts. Just before Pikachu is struck by a rebounding Electro Ball, the Froakie that had been watching them before jumps in and takes the attack for Pikachu. Using its frubbles as an attack, Froakie incapacitates Wobbuffet and Team Rocket with the sticky frubbles. Clemont orders his Bunnelby to use Dig, which sends Team Rocket flying into the air before Pikachu sends them blasting off with a Thunderbolt.

Afterwards Froakie collapses from its injuries. Following on Bonnie's recommendations, they rush Froakie to Professor Sycamore's laboratory, fearing for the little Pokémon's safety.

Spoiler: Froakie's role in the 2nd episode with it not joined with Ash

When Ash asks if Froakie's Trainer is on its way to pick up his Pokémon, Sycamore laments that the Trainer has given up on Froakie due to his refusal to listen to orders. Even more shockingly, Sycamore tells them that Froakie has had multiple Trainers but either refused to obey them or simply didn't like them.

Later on....

That Froakie tags along with Ash, & during the next episode, uses its "frubbles" (the sticky bubbles on its back.) to get a Garchomp's feet stuck in place so that it wouldn't walk off Prism Tower (Which Garchomp had flown up to.) while it was struggling to remove a collar Team Rocket put onto it. After the collar is removed, Pikachu & Froakie run towards Ash, but part of the damaged Prism Tower collapses below Pikachu. Ash dives off Prism Tower after Pikachu, & the signature Mega Blaziken of local superhero Blaziken Man grabs Ash & Pikachu mid-fall. At the end of the episode, Froakie joins Ash, Poke Ball & all.

However, another Pokemon Protagonist, Goh, has also caught a Froakie before (His evolved into a Frogadier, too, like Ash's!), so, what are the details of when it was wild?

JN103 - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

"Goh comes across a Froakie while walking through a park and tries to catch it, only for it to deflect his Poké Ball and throw bubbles on his face. Bonnie shows up and explains that the bubbles are called Frubbles, which only Froakie can make. Determined to catch the Bubble Frog Pokémon, Goh challenges it to a battle."
The episode changes focus, & when it returns to Goh & Froakie....
"Goh, meanwhile, has managed to exhaust Froakie enough that, after dodging one more Frubble throw, he finally manages to catch it. He then decides to make his way to the Lumiose Gym, and is surprised when Bonnie says the Gym belongs to her big brother."

So yeah. Froakie, IC, at least, going by the anime, make & throw Frubbles.... Which only Froakie use. Not very useful for Frogadier focused stuff.

X Omega Ruby	It secretes flexible bubbles from its chest and back. The bubbles reduce the damage it would otherwise take when attacked.
Y Alpha Sapphire	It protects its skin by covering its body in delicate bubbles. Beneath its happy-go-lucky air, it keeps a watchful eye on its surroundings.

Its possible Frogadier has similar bubbles on its back, going by visuals, but otherwise, IDK.
Anyway, it sounds like Froakie keeps a watchful eye & a happy-go-lucky air. Presumably, Frogadier, as its evolved form, should be at least as watchful....


Behavioural summary:
1. Froakie, the pre-evolution of Frogadier, a combatant in this match, make & throw "Frubbles", sticky bubbles that it secrete from its chest & back. These also reduce damage to Froakie.
2. Froakie keeps a watchful eye on its surroundings. Presumably, Frogadier, as its evolved form, does likewise.
3. Based on visuals, & its described ability of throwing bubble-covered pebbles with precision, Frogadier may also use these "Frubbles" or something like them, anyway.
4. Frogadier are known for their swiftness & climbing abilities.


So, what moves might this align with...? Well, bizzarely enough, Frogadier's line has never been able to learn Bubble Beam. (& while they do learn Bubble, Bubble was among many deleted moves in Gen 8. What the heck, Game Freak? Pokemon: Legends Arceus has Bubble, though, for some reason.)

Bubble: "A spray of countless bubbles is jetted at the opposing Pokémon. This may also lower their Speed stat."
(In gameplay, the chance to lower the victim's speed is 10%.)
It may be good to view the anime appearances section for this move. Said section also describes how the move appeared in that instance of its useage, which is helpful if you're unable &/or unwilling to view that episode of that move's appearance.

Frogadier's Pokedex entries also make Fling & Smack Down seem plausible. ....But the former can't be used without a held item, & the profile doesn't list anything for Standard Equipment. Maybe it'll be used if Frogadier decides to start flinging rubble, but even then, Fling's power & effect are just based on the thrown item, so yeah.
As for Smack Down: "The user throws a stone or similar projectile to attack the target. If the target is in the air, it will be knocked down to the ground."
Might be useful here.

If we're considering that Frogadier might do other things similar to bubble-covered rock throwing (It is a Water-type.), there are other Water-type moves. Among the ones it learns are:

Water Gun: "The target is blasted with a forceful shot of water."
Water Pulse, which has weirdly varied descriptions, being described as attacking with/generating Ultrasonic Waves, prior to FireRed & LeafGreen. Its modern descriptions are more like:
"The user attacks the target with a pulsing blast of water. This may also confuse the target."
(In gameplay, Water Pulse's chance to inflict Confusion is 20%. & its secondary effect in PL:A is not missing instead of inflicting confusion? So is it meant to be super-accurate??)

Hydro Pump: "The target is blasted by a huge volume of water launched under great pressure."

Notably, Frogadier's ability, Torrent, boosts the power of its Water-type moves by 50% when it's "in a pinch", "when it's in trouble", or "when it's HP is low", according to the ability's descriptions across generations. In gameplay, this is specifically when it's HP is at a third or less.

If we're considering its mobility....
Bounce: "The user bounces up high on the first turn, then drops onto the target on the next turn. This may also leave the target with paralysis."
(In gameplay, the chance to inflict Paralysis on hit is 30%.)

Switcheroo: "The user trades held items with the foe faster than the eye can follow." (Though, I'm unsure this'll be useable on a suit of fitted mechanical armor, Class K Lifting Strength aside.)
Quick Attack: "The user lunges at the target at a speed that makes it almost invisible. This move always goes first."
(In Scarlet & Violet, it is instead described with: "The user lunges at the target to inflict damage, moving at blinding speed. This move always goes first.".)
Double Team: "By moving rapidly, the user makes illusory copies of itself to boost its evasiveness."
(I wonder if moves like these are to be considered faster than other moves??)

& if we're considering it being based on a ninja, the moves among its level-up moves & egg moves include:

Mind Reader: "The user senses the target's movements with its mind to ensure its next attack does not miss the target."
Camouflage: "The user's type is changed depending on its environment, such as at water's edge, in grass, or in a cave."
(Of questionable use, since Frogadier's Protean Ability already makes it change type, to that of any move it uses. & yes, Camouflage does seem to change the user's visual appearance, to blend in with the surroundings, too.)
Smokescreen: "The user releases an obscuring cloud of smoke or ink. This lowers the target's accuracy."
Substitute: "The user creates a substitute for itself using some of its own HP. The substitute serves as the user's decoy."

These trap-setting would be of questionable relevancy & use, since Tony's gonna be flying about in a suit of armor, but they do fit the ninja theme:
Toxic Spikes: "The user lays a trap of poison spikes at the feet of the opposing team. The spikes will poison opposing Pokémon that switch into battle."
Spikes: "The user lays a trap of spikes at the feet of the opposing team. The spikes will damage opposing Pokémon that switch into battle."

It also has Water Sport & Mud Sport:
Water Sport: "The user soaks the battlefield with water. This weakens Fire-type moves for five turns."
Mud Sport: "The user kicks up mud on the battlefield. This weakens Electric-type moves for five turns."
Prior to Gen 7, they were described as covering the user, so they might align with the ninja/camouflage tactics.
"The user soaks itself with water. This weakens Fire-type moves for five turns."
"The user covers itself with mud. This weakens Electric-type moves for five turns."

They might be especially useful if types are ascribed to some of Tony's attacks. Ex: Assuming Repulsor Blasts are Electric-type. (Plus, Mud Sport is the only move among its Level-Up & Egg Move movepool that'll give it a Resistance to Electric-type moves, & IDK if we account for Move Tutor & TM Moves & such.)

Considering it's a Frog....
Lick: "The user licks the target with a long tongue to inflict damage. This may also leave the target with paralysis."
In gameplay, the chance to inflict paralysis is 30%. Personally, I'm unsure how this'll work, though, if it licks the armor. Would the machine become paralyzed rather than the man?
Oh & it also gets Power-Up Punch: "Striking opponents over and over makes the user's fists harder. Hitting a target raises the Attack stat."
Though it's a bit of an Egg Move oddity; It only gets this as an Egg Move from breeding with Wooper or Quagsire (The former of which notoriously lacks arms.), & ONLY in Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon. But hey, it's a physical offensive set-up move. But unless Frogadier is like trying to pull a mobility/stealth-based hit & run tactic, I doubt it'd go for it, even if it has the ...exotic lineage to know this move.

Oh, & finally, Frogadier's arguably... hardest to evade ranged move is probably also one of its most unlikely:
Round: "The user attacks the target with a song. If others use this move, they will act immediately after the initial user, and the power of their Rounds will be boosted."


I THINK that's all the relevant moves. Sorry about all the words.
Hopefully this may help assess what behaviour Frogadier might do here. Personally, I'm a little burned out to do that myself right now.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I was eager to find out who Frogadier's opponent would be, after having read the tournament roster (I love debating Pokemon Vs Matches that don't involve the Creation Trio & their associated Pokemon.), but finding out the opponent is an Iron Man, & from the MCU, no less? It's a little disheartening....

Anyway, Frogadier is 1 of those Pokemon that hasn't been in many games, & so, lacks Pokedex entries. Introduced in Gen 6, skipped over 3 generations in a row.

X Omega Ruby	It can throw bubble-covered pebbles with precise control, hitting empty cans up to a hundred feet away.
Y Alpha Sapphire	Its swiftness is unparalleled. It can scale a tower of more than 2,000 feet in a minute’s time.

....No behavioural info.
& its range & speed are likely better than those Pokedex feats for it, due to scaling.

Range: Standard melee range, extended melee range with Cut and Aerial Ace. Tens of kilometers with most attacks like Water Shuriken

....Although I do wish the profile gave KEYS for the Range for this evolutionary line instead of just listing Greninja's!

Frogadier (Pokémon) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

All of the notable Frogadier in the anime & manga have been trainer owned.
Its line also don't get to appear in any Mystery Dungeons, due to the last MD game being for Gen 5. Too late for Gen 5, & skipped over reappearing in other generations....

What about the behaviour of Frogadier's pre-evolution, Froakie? Perhaps some of that is applicable?

"Multiple Froakie appeared in a flashback in Cloudy Fate, Bright Future!. They saw one of their own, who would later become Ash's, as a disturbance to their group due to its strange and distant behavior, and attacked it as a result."

Even combing through Bulbapedia's detailed summary & looking at the screenshots gallery, I can't figure out if they used any moves or what tactic the Froakie group used.

There is A wild Froakie that we know the behaviour of... it's Ash's, which was technically wild before it joined him, &, as the linked episode revealed, was an outcast for its behaviour. To be specific:

Spoiler: Ash's Froakie's Flashback history

Olympia reveals that shortly after hatching, Froakie trained hard by itself and refused to associate with the other Froakie, being completely focused on becoming stronger. This brought it into conflict with the other Froakie and it became injured in the process, necessitating Nurse Joy to help it recover. From its interactions with Nurse Joy, Froakie realized that it needed to team up with a Pokémon Trainer to become even stronger. However, since it was already used to training by itself, it held high standards for the Trainers that chose it as a partner, and rejected all of them as being not strong enough. Olympia states that Froakie eventually found the quality it had been searching for in Ash, which was love - after Ash had showed concern for it when they first met. Ash is happy to see the bond he has with Frogadier reaffirmed.

Between that flashback stuff & being caught....

XY001 - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

When Ash was meeting Clement & Bonnie, the Froakie that'd become Ash's was watching from a building.

Spoiler: Later in that episode

Although Pikachu and Bunnelby both put up excellent fights against Team Rocket, Jessie's Wobbuffet uses Mirror Coat to block their efforts. Just before Pikachu is struck by a rebounding Electro Ball, the Froakie that had been watching them before jumps in and takes the attack for Pikachu. Using its frubbles as an attack, Froakie incapacitates Wobbuffet and Team Rocket with the sticky frubbles. Clemont orders his Bunnelby to use Dig, which sends Team Rocket flying into the air before Pikachu sends them blasting off with a Thunderbolt.

Afterwards Froakie collapses from its injuries. Following on Bonnie's recommendations, they rush Froakie to Professor Sycamore's laboratory, fearing for the little Pokémon's safety.

Spoiler: Froakie's role in the 2nd episode with it not joined with Ash

When Ash asks if Froakie's Trainer is on its way to pick up his Pokémon, Sycamore laments that the Trainer has given up on Froakie due to his refusal to listen to orders. Even more shockingly, Sycamore tells them that Froakie has had multiple Trainers but either refused to obey them or simply didn't like them.

Later on....

That Froakie tags along with Ash, & during the next episode, uses its "frubbles" (the sticky bubbles on its back.) to get a Garchomp's feet stuck in place so that it wouldn't walk off Prism Tower (Which Garchomp had flown up to.) while it was struggling to remove a collar Team Rocket put onto it. After the collar is removed, Pikachu & Froakie run towards Ash, but part of the damaged Prism Tower collapses below Pikachu. Ash dives off Prism Tower after Pikachu, & the signature Mega Blaziken of local superhero Blaziken Man grabs Ash & Pikachu mid-fall. At the end of the episode, Froakie joins Ash, Poke Ball & all.

However, another Pokemon Protagonist, Goh, has also caught a Froakie before (His evolved into a Frogadier, too, like Ash's!), so, what are the details of when it was wild?

JN103 - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

"Goh comes across a Froakie while walking through a park and tries to catch it, only for it to deflect his Poké Ball and throw bubbles on his face. Bonnie shows up and explains that the bubbles are called Frubbles, which only Froakie can make. Determined to catch the Bubble Frog Pokémon, Goh challenges it to a battle."
The episode changes focus, & when it returns to Goh & Froakie....
"Goh, meanwhile, has managed to exhaust Froakie enough that, after dodging one more Frubble throw, he finally manages to catch it. He then decides to make his way to the Lumiose Gym, and is surprised when Bonnie says the Gym belongs to her big brother."

So yeah. Froakie, IC, at least, going by the anime, make & throw Frubbles.... Which only Froakie use. Not very useful for Frogadier focused stuff.

X Omega Ruby	It secretes flexible bubbles from its chest and back. The bubbles reduce the damage it would otherwise take when attacked.
Y Alpha Sapphire	It protects its skin by covering its body in delicate bubbles. Beneath its happy-go-lucky air, it keeps a watchful eye on its surroundings.

Its possible Frogadier has similar bubbles on its back, going by visuals, but otherwise, IDK.
Anyway, it sounds like Froakie keeps a watchful eye & a happy-go-lucky air. Presumably, Frogadier, as its evolved form, should be at least as watchful....


Behavioural summary:
1. Froakie, the pre-evolution of Frogadier, a combatant in this match, make & throw "Frubbles", sticky bubbles that it secrete from its chest & back. These also reduce damage to Froakie.
2. Froakie keeps a watchful eye on its surroundings. Presumably, Frogadier, as its evolved form, does likewise.
3. Based on visuals, & its described ability of throwing bubble-covered pebbles with precision, Frogadier may also use these "Frubbles" or something like them, anyway.
4. Frogadier are known for their swiftness & climbing abilities.


So, what moves might this align with...? Well, bizzarely enough, Frogadier's line has never been able to learn Bubble Beam. (& while they do learn Bubble, Bubble was among many deleted moves in Gen 8. What the heck, Game Freak? Pokemon: Legends Arceus has Bubble, though, for some reason.)

Bubble: "A spray of countless bubbles is jetted at the opposing Pokémon. This may also lower their Speed stat."
(In gameplay, the chance to lower the victim's speed is 10%.)
It may be good to view the anime appearances section for this move. Said section also describes how the move appeared in that instance of its useage, which is helpful if you're unable &/or unwilling to view that episode of that move's appearance.

Frogadier's Pokedex entries also make Fling & Smack Down seem plausible. ....But the former can't be used without a held item, & the profile doesn't list anything for Standard Equipment. Maybe it'll be used if Frogadier decides to start flinging rubble, but even then, Fling's power & effect are just based on the thrown item, so yeah.
As for Smack Down: "The user throws a stone or similar projectile to attack the target. If the target is in the air, it will be knocked down to the ground."
Might be useful here.

If we're considering that Frogadier might do other things similar to bubble-covered rock throwing (It is a Water-type.), there are other Water-type moves. Among the ones it learns are:

Water Gun: "The target is blasted with a forceful shot of water."
Water Pulse, which has weirdly varied descriptions, being described as attacking with/generating Ultrasonic Waves, prior to FireRed & LeafGreen. Its modern descriptions are more like:
"The user attacks the target with a pulsing blast of water. This may also confuse the target."
(In gameplay, Water Pulse's chance to inflict Confusion is 20%. & its secondary effect in PL:A is not missing instead of inflicting confusion? So is it meant to be super-accurate??)

Hydro Pump: "The target is blasted by a huge volume of water launched under great pressure."

Notably, Frogadier's ability, Torrent, boosts the power of its Water-type moves by 50% when it's "in a pinch", "when it's in trouble", or "when it's HP is low", according to the ability's descriptions across generations. In gameplay, this is specifically when it's HP is at a third or less.

If we're considering its mobility....
Bounce: "The user bounces up high on the first turn, then drops onto the target on the next turn. This may also leave the target with paralysis."
(In gameplay, the chance to inflict Paralysis on hit is 30%.)

Switcheroo: "The user trades held items with the foe faster than the eye can follow." (Though, I'm unsure this'll be useable on a suit of fitted mechanical armor, Class K Lifting Strength aside.)
Quick Attack: "The user lunges at the target at a speed that makes it almost invisible. This move always goes first."
(In Scarlet & Violet, it is instead described with: "The user lunges at the target to inflict damage, moving at blinding speed. This move always goes first.".)
Double Team: "By moving rapidly, the user makes illusory copies of itself to boost its evasiveness."
(I wonder if moves like these are to be considered faster than other moves??)

& if we're considering it being based on a ninja, the moves among its level-up moves & egg moves include:

Mind Reader: "The user senses the target's movements with its mind to ensure its next attack does not miss the target."
Camouflage: "The user's type is changed depending on its environment, such as at water's edge, in grass, or in a cave."
(Of questionable use, since Frogadier's Protean Ability already makes it change type, to that of any move it uses. & yes, Camouflage does seem to change the user's visual appearance, to blend in with the surroundings, too.)
Smokescreen: "The user releases an obscuring cloud of smoke or ink. This lowers the target's accuracy."
Substitute: "The user creates a substitute for itself using some of its own HP. The substitute serves as the user's decoy."

These trap-setting would be of questionable relevancy & use, since Tony's gonna be flying about in a suit of armor, but they do fit the ninja theme:
Toxic Spikes: "The user lays a trap of poison spikes at the feet of the opposing team. The spikes will poison opposing Pokémon that switch into battle."
Spikes: "The user lays a trap of spikes at the feet of the opposing team. The spikes will damage opposing Pokémon that switch into battle."

It also has Water Sport & Mud Sport:
Water Sport: "The user soaks the battlefield with water. This weakens Fire-type moves for five turns."
Mud Sport: "The user kicks up mud on the battlefield. This weakens Electric-type moves for five turns."
Prior to Gen 7, they were described as covering the user, so they might align with the ninja/camouflage tactics.
"The user soaks itself with water. This weakens Fire-type moves for five turns."
"The user covers itself with mud. This weakens Electric-type moves for five turns."

They might be especially useful if types are ascribed to some of Tony's attacks. Ex: Assuming Repulsor Blasts are Electric-type. (Plus, Mud Sport is the only move among its Level-Up & Egg Move movepool that'll give it a Resistance to Electric-type moves, & IDK if we account for Move Tutor & TM Moves & such.)

Considering it's a Frog....
Lick: "The user licks the target with a long tongue to inflict damage. This may also leave the target with paralysis."
In gameplay, the chance to inflict paralysis is 30%. Personally, I'm unsure how this'll work, though, if it licks the armor. Would the machine become paralyzed rather than the man?
Oh & it also gets Power-Up Punch: "Striking opponents over and over makes the user's fists harder. Hitting a target raises the Attack stat."
Though it's a bit of an Egg Move oddity; It only gets this as an Egg Move from breeding with Wooper or Quagsire (The former of which notoriously lacks arms.), & ONLY in Ultra Sun & Ultra Moon. But hey, it's a physical offensive set-up move. But unless Frogadier is like trying to pull a mobility/stealth-based hit & run tactic, I doubt it'd go for it, even if it has the ...exotic lineage to know this move.

Oh, & finally, Frogadier's arguably... hardest to evade ranged move is probably also one of its most unlikely:
Round: "The user attacks the target with a song. If others use this move, they will act immediately after the initial user, and the power of their Rounds will be boosted."


I THINK that's all the relevant moves. Sorry about all the words.
Hopefully this may help assess what behaviour Frogadier might do here. Personally, I'm a little burned out to do that myself right now.

Jesus ******* Christ, this man dropped a Bible on my ass. I pretty much gave literally everything Iron Man had at his disposal for this in a single decent length paragraph.

 

[Popted2]

Jesus ******* Christ, this man dropped a Bible on my ass. I pretty much gave literally everything Iron Man had at his disposal for this in a single decent length paragraph.

your fault to submit someone who only has a specific attack in that tier, while the rest no

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

your fault to submit someone who only has a specific attack in that tier, while the rest no

I didn't think I'd be stuck fighting a Pokémon in my first round either.

 

[Imaginym]

Jesus ******* Christ, this man dropped a Bible on my ass. I pretty much gave literally everything Iron Man had at his disposal for this in a single decent length paragraph.

Sorry if I was a bit excessively wordy, lol.
I do wonder if I could've summarized it more briefly like you did for Iron Man.

your fault to submit someone who only has a specific attack in that tier, while the rest no

Huh? How do you mean?

Okay, so this is gonna be a rough one. Tony dies if he gets hit even once

I did wonder about this when I saw this while making my post earlier. What do you mean Tony dies if he gets hit once, isn't his armor protecting him & of the tier for the tourney?

but at this point in the series he's gotten really good at dodging as shown in Iron Man 2 against all the hammer drones but I'm pretty sure Frogadier is gonna be even harder to dodge but not impossible.

Why would the hammer drones be easier to dodge? Or rather, why were they easier to dodge?
&/or did you have some assumptions about Frogadier's skill?
Admittedly, to its credit, it does have reputably good aim.

Tony's first shot at damage is using his repulsors and when he sees those don't do anything

They won't??

he'll immediately go for the lasers along with summoning the Iron Legion

That on the profile?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Sorry if I was a bit excessively wordy, lol.
I do wonder if I could've summarized it more briefly like you did for Iron Man.

Huh? How do you mean?

I did wonder about this when I saw this while making my post earlier. What do you mean Tony dies if he gets hit once, isn't his armor protecting him & of the tier for the tourney?

Why would the hammer drones be easier to dodge? Or rather, why were they easier to dodge?
&/or did you have some assumptions about Frogadier's skill?
Admittedly, to its credit, it does have reputably good aim.

They won't??

That on the profile?

Tony is only 7-B with his lasers, he's only Low 7-C in AP and Dura without them but he also has a shit ton of armors that he can summon with these lasers and yes these are on the profile if you would actually read it.

 

[Popted2]

Huh? How do you mean?

because apart from his lasers, this Tony is only low 7-C

so his other attacks won't damage in the slightest, and if he get hit, is gone

 

[Imaginym]

Tony is only 7-B with his lasers, he's only Low 7-C in AP and Dura without them

Ah okay, thank you. Wonder how that happened.

but he also has a shit ton of armors that he can summon with these lasers and yes these are on the profile if you would actually read it.

My apologies. Lemme get to that....

Also, forgive me, but I can't find a Powers & Abilities section listed as Mark 46-Mark 47. Which Powers & Abilities Keys are relevant for him here?
Everything from before the Mark 50 Key, right??

Also, since Frogadier's profile lacks keys for its Range Statistics, I should probably clarify that Frogadier, as a middle evolution of a starter Pokemon Evolutionary line probably has Range something like this:
Standard Melee Range, Hundreds of Meters with most attacks

Sorry for any bother BTW.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Ah okay, thank you. Wonder how that happened.

My apologies. Lemme get to that....

Also, forgive me, but I can't find a Powers & Abilities section listed as Mark 46-Mark 47. Which Powers & Abilities Keys are relevant for him here?
Everything from before the Mark 50 Key, right??

Yes but you can also see the House Party Protocol in his techniques section as well.

Also, since Frogadier's profile lacks keys for its Range Statistics, I should probably clarify that Frogadier, as a middle evolution of a starter Pokemon Evolutionary line probably has Range something like this:
Standard Melee Range, Hundreds of Meters with most attacks

Sorry for any bother BTW.

So yeah, Frogadier has better range than Tony since we can't include the satellite as it houses the Hulkbuster but still think Tony should be able to weave his way through the more ordinary attacks from Frogadier. After all, I'd say this is fairly impressive dodging skills.

 

[DontTalkDT]

As impressive as Tony's dodging is, with the stat issues cutting down his variety a lot and him being a glass canon, I think the Pokémon wins. It's just a huge disadvantage.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

As impressive as Tony's dodging is, with the stat issues cutting down his variety a lot and him being a glass canon, I think the Pokémon wins. It's just a huge disadvantage.

Tbf, there's gonna a lot of armors firing at Frogadier at once so even if Tony does lose, he's not gonna make it easy in the slightest.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Tbf, there's gonna a lot of armors firing at Frogadier at once so even if Tony does lose, he's not gonna make it easy in the slightest.

Just to make sure: Those armors are also glass cannons, right?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Just to make sure: Those armors are also glass cannons, right?

Yep.

 

[DontTalkDT]

Yeah, then I remain thinking that Pokémon probably wins. Sure, the armors attack power is a challenge, but the Pokémon can shoot some down to make space if necessary, weave in between and ultimately land the lethal hit.

 

[Popted2]

Frogadier FRA

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yeah, then I remain thinking that Pokémon probably wins. Sure, the armors attack power is a challenge, but the Pokémon can shoot some down to make space if necessary, weave in between and ultimately land the lethal hit.

Don't forget that Tony can actively enter a sort of predictive mode as shown against Captain America at the end of Civil War where as he was getting his shit rocked in skill but then suddenly went blow for blow with him by analyzing his fighting pattern. All that from a fight that was only like a couple minutes long and I'm positive that Tony can last at least a couple minutes against Frogadier, especially with his whole army of armors there.

 

[Imaginym]

Yes but you can also see the House Party Protocol in his techniques section as well.

Just to make sure: Those armors are also glass cannons, right?

Ah, thank you. I presume they're also glass cannons because not as advanced?
Also, looking at his Powers & Abilities, why is the Mark 44 literally just "All previous powers"?
Is it just 1 of the previous armor, but with a higher stat in something?

So yeah, Frogadier has better range than Tony since we can't include the satellite as it houses the Hulkbuster but still think Tony should be able to weave his way through the more ordinary attacks from Frogadier. After all, I'd say this is fairly impressive dodging skills.

It looks like, if I'm not mistaken, during a lot of that video, Tony is flying away from hails of bullets (Isn't the suit bulletproof?) & missiles that are pursuing him that he's as fast or faster, than? To his credit, he's facing away from them, so he doesn't have visuals on what he's flying from?

Regarding the topic of dodging, if Frogadier sees Tony doing that a lot, there is 1 Egg Move I mentioned that'd be relevant:
Mind Reader: "The user senses the target's movements with its mind to ensure its next attack does not miss the target."
In gameplay, Mind Reader ensures the user's next attack doesn't miss.

Of course, that relies on it actually knowing to do this, but if Tony's gonna be flying out of range, & as was said, using his repulsors, then his lasers....
Say, presuming his respulsors &/or lasers Electricity Manipulation &/or he goes for an Iron Armor Army all-out assault on Frogadier: Where IN 7-C is Tony? How much below is he?

Also, do the lasers have a charging period or a tax on the armor's energy?

& yeah, there's also the issue that Frogadier sees the projectile spam & takes measures to evade like Smokescreen or Double Team (Creating illusory copies/afterimages via speed.) or Substitute (Making a decoy.).
Do Tony's armors have countermeasures against such evasive techniques?

To say nothing of the threat of Smack Down even temporarily grounding Tony.

Don't forget that Tony can actively enter a sort of predictive mode as shown against Captain America at the end of Civil War where as he was getting his shit rocked in skill but then suddenly went blow for blow with him by analyzing his fighting pattern. All that from a fight that was only like a couple minutes long and I'm positive that Tony can last at least a couple minutes against Frogadier, especially with his whole army of armors there.

The issue is Tony needs to hit Frogadier first. Given its known for its agility & has a few techniques to help out with evading, it might be a bit of time before he actually sees an attack land & do no damage.

Does Tony call a house party when a foe is just dodging a lot?

There's also the issue of Frogadier's widest range attacking move being Round (Singing at the opponent.) , which seems out of character.
Unless it does like, a Water Gun or Hydro Pump while rotating. THAT might deal with the armors, but a group of fliers that are as fast as you, even if they can't do damage with most attacks might be a bit difficult.
(Even though, in my mind, Frogadier jumping from armor to armor, one-shotting each as it lands does seem impressive, I doubt any of Tony's suits will let any foe get in contact range if it can help it.)

Still, though, Frogadier does have evasive measures, & if it minds that Tony is the suit summoner, AKA, the one in charge, it might realize to track him via Mind Reader & then hit him.

 

[Spinoirr]

Yeah frog fra

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Ah, thank you. I presume they're also glass cannons because not as advanced?
Also, looking at his Powers & Abilities, why is the Mark 44 literally just "All previous powers"?
Is it just 1 of the previous armor, but with a higher stat in something?


It looks like, if I'm not mistaken, during a lot of that video, Tony is flying away from hails of bullets (Isn't the suit bulletproof?) & missiles that are pursuing him that he's as fast or faster, than? To his credit, he's facing away from them, so he doesn't have visuals on what he's flying from?

Regarding the topic of dodging, if Frogadier sees Tony doing that a lot, there is 1 Egg Move I mentioned that'd be relevant:
Mind Reader: "The user senses the target's movements with its mind to ensure its next attack does not miss the target."
In gameplay, Mind Reader ensures the user's next attack doesn't miss.

Of course, that relies on it actually knowing to do this, but if Tony's gonna be flying out of range, & as was said, using his repulsors, then his lasers....
Say, presuming his respulsors &/or lasers Electricity Manipulation &/or he goes for an Iron Armor Army all-out assault on Frogadier: Where IN 7-C is Tony? How much below is he?

Also, do the lasers have a charging period or a tax on the armor's energy?

& yeah, there's also the issue that Frogadier sees the projectile spam & takes measures to evade like Smokescreen or Double Team (Creating illusory copies/afterimages via speed.) or Substitute (Making a decoy.).
Do Tony's armors have countermeasures against such evasive techniques?

To say nothing of the threat of Smack Down even temporarily grounding Tony.

The issue is Tony needs to hit Frogadier first. Given its known for its agility & has a few techniques to help out with evading, it might be a bit of time before he actually sees an attack land & do no damage.

Does Tony call a house party when a foe is just dodging a lot?

There's also the issue of Frogadier's widest range attacking move being Round (Singing at the opponent.) , which seems out of character.
Unless it does like, a Water Gun or Hydro Pump while rotating. THAT might deal with the armors, but a group of fliers that are as fast as you, even if they can't do damage with most attacks might be a bit difficult.
(Even though, in my mind, Frogadier jumping from armor to armor, one-shotting each as it lands does seem impressive, I doubt any of Tony's suits will let any foe get in contact range if it can help it.)

Still, though, Frogadier does have evasive measures, & if it minds that Tony is the suit summoner, AKA, the one in charge, it might realize to track him via Mind Reader & then hit him.

Another Bible, ugghh....

I can't argue something like that, can we just skip this round and say Tony loses because I didn't even know Mind Read existed and I've played every ******* Pokémon game.

 

[Imaginym]

Another Bible, ugghh....

I can't argue something like that, can we just skip this round and say Tony loses because I didn't even know Mind Read existed and I've played every ******* Pokémon game.

Apologies for being so unpleasantly wordy.

I can kinda see cases for other side, but part of me does lean towards Frogadier, especially if Tony doesn't realize he's in danger of one shot range until he lands a hit, which may only be from "several dozen meters" away with repulsors, which may be dangerously close considering the speed of the combatants.

Voting Frogadier.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Mind Read pretty much guarantees Tony's loss. Had I known that existed then I wouldn't have even started arguing and just said he gets folded.

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Its line also don't get to appear in any Mystery Dungeons, due to the last MD game being for Gen 5.

Super Mystery Dungeon: Am I a joke to you?
Anyways, frog FRA

 

[Imaginym]

Super Mystery Dungeon: Am I a joke to you?

My bad. Thanks, lol.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

While I think there's an argument to be made about Iron Man potentially overwhelming Frogadier with the brigade shooting lasers at it from many sides, his lower durability makes him unlikely to win over 50% of the time. Frogadier's Double Team would also be trouble, I'd think.
Adding my vote to Frogadier

And that's grace

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

All of the notable Frogadier in the anime & manga have been trainer owned.
Its line also don't get to appear in any Mystery Dungeons, due to the last MD game being for Gen 5. Too late for Gen 5, & skipped over reappearing in other generations....

I guess this was a collective hallucination

 

[Imaginym]

I guess this was a collective hallucination

I did genuinely forget that existed for a while, yes.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Frogadier FRA

Also you moved Tony on instead of Frogadier in the bracket

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Also you moved Tony on instead of Frogadier in the bracket

I have no idea what you're talking about

 

[Ret_of_Guys]

Tony: Oh, a frog? This should be easy!

Frogadier: Oneshots Tony.
Poor Iron Man.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Apologies to bring this match up agsin, but looking back at this match again and Iron Man's abilities, I'm wondering.

Is it actually a stomp for Frogadier? What do you think?

 

[Imaginym]

Apologies to bring this match up agsin, but looking back at this match again and Iron Man's abilities, I'm wondering.

Is it actually a stomp for Frogadier? What do you think?

Frogadier does one shot if it hits, but it seems like Tony has win conditions, since he can harm Frogadier, & he has resources & skills to help him out.
But as said, I can see cases for either sides. 1 of the tipping points for Frogadier is realizing it needs to use Mind Reader, which is an Egg Move. Or avoid detecton with stuff like Smokescreen, Double Team or Substitute, presuming Tony doesn't have counters to that.

Meanwhile, Tony can potentially overwhelm with numbers by summoning more suits to attack. His main risk is needing to realize that Frogadier is much stronger than him, which may happen when it doesn't take much damage from his regular attacks.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

Frogadier does one shot if it hits, but it seems like Tony has win conditions, since he can harm Frogadier, & he has resources & skills to help him out.
But as said, I can see cases for either sides. 1 of the tipping points for Frogadier is realizing it needs to use Mind Reader, which is an Egg Move. Or avoid detecton with stuff like Smokescreen, Double Team or Substitute, presuming Tony doesn't have counters to that.

Meanwhile, Tony can potentially overwhelm with numbers by summoning more suits to attack. His main risk is needing to realize that Frogadier is much stronger than him, which may happen when it doesn't take much damage from his regular attacks.

That's what I believed, too.
However, on the match-up addition thread, the match is facing resistance, seen as a stomp.

 

[Imaginym]

That's what I believed, too.
However, on the match-up addition thread, the match is facing resistance, seen as a stomp.

Link, please?