7-B [Path to the Throne] Tournament: Pupitar vs Vi

[GoldenScorpions]

[Path to the Throne] 7-B tournament
Quarter-Final 1​

Characters	Attack Potency	Votes
Pupitar (Pokémon)	45.88 Megatons	1 (@CrackerVolley)
Vi (League of Legends)	18 Megatons	8 (@Imaginym, @Popted2, @Epiccheev, @LeoEpicGamer8910, @GoldenScorpions, @Artorimachi_Meteoraft, @Recon1511, @Ret_of_Guys)
Inconclusive

• The match takes place at Mont Saint-Michel, during high tide. A barrier seals the island 200 meters away.
• Starting distance is 10 meters, on the sandy part at the bottom of the island town.
• Speed is equalized
• Characters have their standard equipment.
• No knowledge of each other. No civilians or vehicles in the area.
• Stat amps cap at 100 Megatons. Stat reduction cap at 6.3 Megatons
• Victory is achieved under what is defined by SBA.
  • Matches have a time limit of 12 hours. Past that, any decisive immobilization or incapacitation for more than 10 seconds becomes a victory condition.

 

[Psychomaster35]

So a 2.54x difference in Pupitar’s favor. Though both of them have the ability to amplify their stats while reducing each other’s stats, it seems that Pupitar’s has the better reductions/amplifications. While Vi can increase her speed by 60%, Pupitar can use Dragon Dance twice to not only amplify its physical attack by 2x, but also double its speed (As per tournament rules, it can’t buff itself to 7-A or higher, so it can only use it twice at max) which may be in-character for it to do since its Crystal Pokédex entry implies it can’t stay still. And due to its Ultra Sun Pokédex entry stating it to be troublesome, it may even do Scary Face which can cause Vi to be reduced to a quarter of her speed after 3 uses. Furthermore, due to being a part Rock-type, the Atlas Gauntlets would only be half effective.

Overall, due to having the starting AP advantage as well as superior statistics buffs/reductions, I’ll vote Pupitar.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Furthermore, due to being a part Rock-type, the Atlas Gauntlets would only be half effective.

The heat wouldnt be as effective but they would still punch just fine, they were literally originally built as mining equipment to punch through rocks lol

 

[Recon1511]

Following

7-B LoL scaling is kinda wack but interesting matchup anyway

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Following

7-B LoL scaling is kinda wack but interesting matchup anyway

How so? Theres a dozen or so 7-B feats they scale to, arguably more as theres a lot of feats that havent even been calced yet

 

[Recon1511]

I don't see how a rifle or mining gauntlets have 7-B attack potency just because they are hextech powered.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I don't see how a rifle or mining gauntlets have 7-B attack potency just because they are hextech powered.

Because theyve harmed people who have 7-B durability feats?

 

[Imaginym]

Speaking of the Atlas Gauntlets, just how much heat do they generate?

1 of the things Pupitar's entries go on about, is how it flies about wildly by forcefully venting pressurized gas; I don't know if it's clarified which kind of gas -Maybe the Japanese entries give more info?- but I wonder if that gas is explosive?
Pupitar creates gas inside of itself.

Do we assume internals to be as durable as the rest of the character?

Of course, "Vi heats up Pupitar so much its internal gasses explode & because its organs aren't 7-B, it's defeated", requires assuming the gas is explosive, which I think is too heavy an assumption without knowing the exact kind of gas or gasses.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Speaking of the Atlas Gauntlets, just how much heat do they generate?

1 of the things Pupitar's entries go on about, is how it flies about wildly by forcefully venting pressurized gas; I don't know if it's clarified which kind of gas -Maybe the Japanese entries give more info?- but I wonder if that gas is explosive?
Pupitar creates gas inside of itself.

Do we assume internals to be as durable as the rest of the character?

Of course, "Vi heats up Pupitar so much its internal gasses explode & because its organs aren't 7-B, it's defeated", requires assuming the gas is explosive, which I think is too heavy an assumption without knowing the exact kind of gas or gasses.

At least 100C, her gauntlets make blood boil on contact

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

I don't know if it's clarified which kind of gas

fart propellant /j

 

[Imaginym]

The ignition temperature of natural gas usually is considered to be 900°F (482°C). Therefore, a device is considered a high-temperature device in a natural gas environment if the temperature of the device exceeds 726°F (385°C). The ignition temperature of hydrogen sulfide is usually considered to be 518°F (270°C).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoignition_temperature (The only gas they list, AFAIK, is hydrogen, & at 535 °C (995 °F), at that.)

fart propellant /j

You made me look up stuff like if farts are pressurized, & their PSI & BAR estimations. So experience this cursed knowledge alongside with me.

"Probably the last 40-50 cm of it. Assuming an average diameter of about 4 cm, then in total, we have about 630 cubic cm of air, pressurized to 1.5 bar, or roughly 950 cubic cm of air." - Google's excerpt from the linked page.
Pupitar's Pokedex entries specify pressurized gas.

"On the market are available gas cylinders with 200 bar and 300 bar as working pressure. The cylinders with a working pressure of 200 bar are most commonly used in certain applications because of the specific needs that characterize these sectors."

Put simply, pressurized gas is typically pressurized at around 200 to 300 bar, if not more. 1 bar is:

"A non-SI unit of pressure equal to 100,000 pascals, approximately equal to atmospheric pressure at sea level."

& a pascal is 1 newton (the force required to accelerate a mass of one kilogram by one metre per second per second.) per square meter.

1 bar is 100,000 pascals. 250 bars is like having a crocodile bite you at nearly full force, & it'd take well in excess of that to propel a human body through the air, let alone something of Pupitar's mass.

If your flatulence is pressurized to that extreme, call emergency services; You're literally about to explode into unsightly confetti.

(Pardon me, just having fun figuring this stuff out. No hard feelings, sorry for any bother, all.)

 

[Psychomaster35]

At least 100C, her gauntlets make blood boil on contact

Pretty sure Pokémon have been able to withstand Lava Plume before, which is literally 12x that temperature

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Pretty sure Pokémon have been able to withstand Lava Plume before, which is literally 12x that temperature

They can withstand the heat of the sun lol

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Magcargo goes brr

 

[Imaginym]

Pretty sure Pokémon have been able to withstand Lava Plume before, which is literally 12x that temperature

I mean I brought up the temperature because of the pressurized gas that's in Pupitar, & IIRC, Pokemon like Koffing, & maybe Weezing, do have entries mentioning they'll explode with heat or pressure or such. But as a Rock-type, it probably is more resistant to heat, & may be more controlled in its gas ventillation; Although it's described as flying wildly, it only uses its gas for that, & not constantly for practically everything like Koffing, probably.

But, Pupitar has no entries mentioning such explosive hazards & AFAIK, most gasses autoignite or explode at higher temperatures than the boiling point of blood.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Technically Pupitar is small enough for Vi to restrain with one hand

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Technically Pupitar is small enough for Vi to restrain with one hand

No animals were harmed in the making of this matchup

 

[Epiccheev]

Dark Pulse, Stone edge and Rock slide do sound like they could be used while it's restrained tho. (Also, it has a weird amount of moves that explicitely work by biting and stomping, yet i see no mouthhole and it's feet are stuck inside the shell.)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

No animals were harmed in the making of this matchup

The previous match had Vi punch a horse its fine

 

[Imaginym]

Technically Pupitar is small enough for Vi to restrain with one hand

Pupitar statedly hates to stay still & apparently does that rocket-like, wild gas propulsion of itself to relieve its stress.
I assume that, if restrained, it'd probably try something like Screech, Stomping Tantrum, Hyper Beam, Ancient Power, or any other move it can do without moving.

Pupitar (Pokémon) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

Dark Pulse, Stone edge and Rock slide do sound like they could be used while it's restrained tho. (Also, it has a weird amount of moves that explicitely work by biting and stomping, yet i see no mouthhole and it's feet are stuck inside the shell.)

Yeah, IDK how it does. Even in Pokemon Amie, it eats without its mouth being visible. (I can't find footage of it in Pokemon Refresh, but the lack of an eating animation in Amie does not inspire confidence.)
That said, Pupitar is an exception in feeding, since, despite being somewhat indirectly called a pupa in its entries, other pupa Pokemon do not eat in Pokemon Refresh, apparently:

Pokémon Refresh - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net

Metapod, Kakuna, Pineco, Silcoon, Cascoon, Shedinja, Spewpa, and Cosmoem cannot be fed.

Maybe side games like Pokemon Battle Revolution have an animation for it eating/biting, IDK?

That said, it moves about by jumping in Pokemon Camp, so it can seemingly do things like Stomp.

 

[Ret_of_Guys]

The ignition temperature of natural gas usually is considered to be 900°F (482°C). Therefore, a device is considered a high-temperature device in a natural gas environment if the temperature of the device exceeds 726°F (385°C). The ignition temperature of hydrogen sulfide is usually considered to be 518°F (270°C).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoignition_temperature (The only gas they list, AFAIK, is hydrogen, & at 535 °C (995 °F), at that.)

You made me look up stuff like if farts are pressurized, & their PSI & BAR estimations. So experience this cursed knowledge alongside with me.

"Probably the last 40-50 cm of it. Assuming an average diameter of about 4 cm, then in total, we have about 630 cubic cm of air, pressurized to 1.5 bar, or roughly 950 cubic cm of air." - Google's excerpt from the linked page.
Pupitar's Pokedex entries specify pressurized gas.

"On the market are available gas cylinders with 200 bar and 300 bar as working pressure. The cylinders with a working pressure of 200 bar are most commonly used in certain applications because of the specific needs that characterize these sectors."

Put simply, pressurized gas is typically pressurized at around 200 to 300 bar, if not more. 1 bar is:

"A non-SI unit of pressure equal to 100,000 pascals, approximately equal to atmospheric pressure at sea level."

& a pascal is 1 newton (the force required to accelerate a mass of one kilogram by one metre per second per second.) per square meter.

1 bar is 100,000 pascals. 250 bars is like having a crocodile bite you at nearly full force, & it'd take well in excess of that to propel a human body through the air, let alone something of Pupitar's mass.

If your flatulence is pressurized to that extreme, call emergency services; You're literally about to explode into unsightly confetti.

(Pardon me, just having fun figuring this stuff out. No hard feelings, sorry for any bother, all.)

My lord that would be the funniest thing ever if Vi ignites Pupitar's fart gases

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Yeah, IDK how it does

Built different

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Pupitar statedly hates to stay still & apparently does that rocket-like, wild gas propulsion of itself to relieve its stress.
I assume that, if restrained, it'd probably try something like Screech, Stomping Tantrum, Hyper Beam, Ancient Power, or any other move it can do without moving.

Stomping Tantrum needs movement tho, the others are fair but also Vi can sorta just aim away from her when she sees moves like Hyper Beam and Screech charging up

 

[WeeklyBattles]

This does bring up a weird conundrum though, how exactly do we handle one character physically crushing the opponent...?

 

[Psychomaster35]

Would it be in-character for Vi to resort to incapacitation?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Would it be in-character for Vi to resort to incapacitation?

Yeah, more often than not she goes for incaps, albeit she usually ends up brutalizing the opponent anyways because of how hard she hits, but she would either go for an incap via KOing or crippling the opponent. Not to say she wouldnt kill if she had to but 9 times out of 10 she opts for incap.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

But yeah, this is a weird case where Vi has both the physical strength to restrain and crush Pupitar and also has gauntlets large enough to do so, so how do we determine how crushing works?

 

[Recon1511]

I guess she just does? AP and Dura gap make it difficult but Pupitar is small and Vi still has a considerable LS advantage

 

[Imaginym]

Stomping Tantrum needs movement tho, the others are fair but also Vi can sorta just aim away from her when she sees moves like Hyper Beam and Screech charging up

Sees a thing that's mostly in a hard shell charging up to yell loudly?
& you should know that Hyper Beam makes the user recharge after use, not before.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Sees a thing that's mostly in a hard shell charging up to yell loudly?
& you should know that Hyper Beam makes the user recharge after use, not before.

Both the games and anime depict Hyper Beam as charging up before firing

 

[Ret_of_Guys]

Of course, if we're gonna make Hyper Beam a move that requires charging before firing instead of after, we could always give it No-Charger.

C,F

No-Charger

All Pokémon

The Pokémon charges then unleashes any move that normally requires 2 turns in only one turn. Powering up these charge-up moves so quickly consumes 2 PP, however.

Don't think it works on Hyper Beam cos that's a recharge move, not a charge move, but worth noting I guess? Even though Pupitar doesn't really have any of those moves? Or maybe DT can correct me on this.

 

[Ret_of_Guys]

Does Vi just win this one?

 

[Imaginym]

There is the question that if Pupitar can propel itself via its gasses hard enough to attack, & then it can do so hard enough to attack Vi while she's holding it; Just because you're holding a rocket in place doesn't mean you won't feel force when it fires its thrusters, even if they're opposite from your hands.

Considering it has a roughly 2.54x AP advantage, this could hurt.

& it might be in-character, considering it launches itself around with that regularly & statedly won't stay still; If Vi grabs it, it's probably gonna do everything it can to stop itself being stopped from moving.

It's one thing to see it readying Ancient Power or Hyper Beam or Screech or such, but you can't really dodge a Tackle from something you're LITERALLY grabbing.

As I see it, Vi has to crush Pupitar (Or otherwise disable its gas propulsion as well as prevent it using its non-movement based attacks.) very soon after grabbing it, or her hands are in for a lot of pain very soon.

(1 combatant having higher AP/Striking Strength & the other having higher LS is weird at times like these, lol.)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Would that work though given the big difference in lifting strength between them though?

 

[CrackerVolley]

Would it be reasonable to assume Shed Skin, Outrage, or Thrash could be used to free itself from her grasp?

 

[Imaginym]

Would that work though given the big difference in lifting strength between them though?

This is a good question.
How do we resolve higher AP/Striking Strength vs higher Lifting Strength?

Would it be reasonable to assume Shed Skin, Outrage, or Thrash could be used to free itself from her grasp?

Shed Skin, probably, but with her LS, I'd assume she can hold it in place, but the hurdle for her is withstanding the force & pain from Pupitar's attacks so that she doesn't lose her grip, & can maintain her strength & hands undamaged enough to crush Pupitar.

Mind, crushing Pupitar may have dubious results. Besides the fact that it can shed its shell, it's described as having its arms & legs in its shell, & the fact that it makes pressurized gas in it may mean there's a lot of empty space in Pupitar's shell. This could mean breaking the outer part with grip may lead to moments where you aren't holding anything because there was just empty air between what was broken & the rest of Pupitar.
Or so I'd speculate. I'm not sure Pupitar's interiors are fully understood.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

This is a good question.
How do we resolve higher AP/Striking Strength vs higher Lifting Strength?

Dunno, never seen a scenario like this before lol

Shed Skin, probably, but with her LS, I'd assume she can hold it in place, but the hurdle for her is withstanding the force & pain from Pupitar's attacks so that she doesn't lose her grip, & can maintain her strength & hands undamaged enough to crush Pupitar.

I mean there wouldnt be much to feel, its not like she's using her bare hands to grab Pupitar, she's using a pair of magic-infused metal gauntlets the size of people, and even then she's got a decently good pain tolerance given that at one point she broke most of the bones in her hands by sticking them into the gearwork of a robot's hands to use them as makeshift gauntlets and then proceeded to punch her way out of a cave in, wore the gauntlets for an entire day, and then used the same gauntlets to beat the shit out of the gang that abandoned her in said cave in

Mind, crushing Pupitar may have dubious results. Besides the fact that it can shed its shell, it's described as having its arms & legs in its shell, & the fact that it makes pressurized gas in it may mean there's a lot of empty space in Pupitar's shell. This could mean breaking the outer part with grip may lead to moments where you aren't holding anything because there was just empty air between what was broken & the rest of Pupitar.
Or so I'd speculate. I'm not sure Pupitar's interiors are fully understood.

INB4 it just evolves into Tyranitar

 

[Imaginym]

Dunno, never seen a scenario like this before lol

Maybe a thread asking about this topic should be made.

I mean there wouldnt be much to feel, its not like she's using her bare hands to grab Pupitar, she's using a pair of magic-infused metal gauntlets the size of people, and even then she's got a decently good pain tolerance given that at one point she broke most of the bones in her hands by sticking them into the gearwork of a robot's hands to use them as makeshift gauntlets and then proceeded to punch her way out of a cave in, wore the gauntlets for an entire day, and then used the same gauntlets to beat the shit out of the gang that abandoned her in said cave in

Nice feat!
I presume that means her gauntlets scale in durability to her AP? (Although, Pupitar being over 2.54x her Durability in AP....)

INB4 it just evolves into Tyranitar

Lol.

Anyway, the moves it might be able to use without moving: Ancient Power, Rock Slide, Smack Down, Sandstorm, Stealth Rock, Screech, Hyper Beam.
It might also be able to use its propulsion to slam into her, but we'd need answer about AP/Striking Strength vs Lifting Strength here.

I would also question that she can turn Pupitar in her hands 180 degrees fast enough:
1. Pupitar begins charging an attack
2. Vi notices it charging.
3. Vi somehow turns it around 180 degrees or such in her giant gauntlets before Pupitar unleashes its attack in Speed Equalized?

 

[GlaceonGamez471]

Anyway, the moves it might be able to use without moving: Ancient Power, Rock Slide, Smack Down, Hyper Beam, Sandstorm, Stealth Rock, Screech, Hyper Beam.

Hyper Beam is so stronk it's listed twice

 

[Imaginym]

Hyper Beam is so stronk it's listed twice

Whoops, lol. Lemme fix that.