Pacheco Cara Floja Deletion

[ShockingPsychic]

Pacheco Cara Floja is a series of Minecraft roleplay, and is infinitely better suited for FC/OC than Vs. Wiki. While the verse has a blog detailing why it belongs here, the blog is not very good at explaining why this should be.

Minecraft Roleplay
The entire series is portrayed in Minecraft, occasionally using mods to introduce non-Minecraft things into the story. This, of course, means that characters such as The Ender Dragon and the Wither make routine appearances in the series. A similar verse, Dream SMP, features many overarching plotlines and other non-Minecraft things throughout the series, however this verse is found on the FC/OC wiki due to taking place primarily in Minecraft.

While PCF does have official books (which also do not seem to be officially licensed by Mojang), Dream SMP also has official animated specials, a short story written by one of creators and published on Ao3, and a live-action short film that are all canon to the storyline. Being multimedia shouldn't mean anything.


Unofficial Crossovers

This is the biggest one. PCF uses characters from Pokemon, Marvel Comics, Godzilla, and King Kong its narrative. Items such as Pokeballs and the Infinity Gauntlet are also used in the profiles found on the site. These are not just for gags, as characters like Thanos appear in multiple episodes. Pikachu and other Pokemon are the main focus of the episode they appear in.

Overall, this is clearly a glorified Minecraft fanfiction, occasionally using items and characters from other franchises in an unofficial capacity. To quote the editing rules;

• Do not add any original or fan-made characters to the wiki. If you wish to create any original/fan-made character profiles, feel free to do so in the FC/OC wiki. "Original" here refers to relatively obscure characters from self-contained stories created by members and their friends, whereas "fan-made" refers to ones appearing within fanfiction or works containing a sufficient amount of another piece of fiction's copyrighted material without official permission.

 

[Psychomaster35]

When I was first presented a calculation of this series, I immediately asked if this was allowed since I also found it as some OC Minecraft fanfiction like Dream SMP. Though the response I got was that it uses Minecraft as a plot device in a similar manner to how Red VS Blue uses Halo as a plot device for its episodes.

 

[MrKerf]

When I was first presented a calculation of this series, I immediately asked if this was allowed since I also found it as some OC Minecraft fanfiction like Dream SMP. Though the response I got was that it uses Minecraft as a plot device in a similar manner to how Red VS Blue uses Halo as a plot device for its episodes.

How does it work exactly? I can (and honestly want to) make an argument for DreamSMP being allowed too. Where's the... the borders?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

When I was first presented a calculation of this series, I immediately asked if this was allowed since I also found it as some OC Minecraft fanfiction like Dream SMP. Though the response I got was that it uses Minecraft as a plot device in a similar manner to how Red VS Blue uses Halo as a plot device for its episodes.

The difference being that Red vs Blue has been repeatedly given direct clearance and allowance by 343 Industries (the creators of Halo), such that Red vs Blue characters actually appeared (sort of) in the Halo games themselves. I doubt the same can be said here.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Agreed.

 

[MrKerf]

The difference being that Red vs Blue has been repeatedly given direct clearance and allowance by 343 Industries (the creators of Halo), such that Red vs Blue characters actually appeared (sort of) in the Halo games themselves. I doubt the same can be said here.

Wouldn't the default implication be that it is allowed if the books are published, something that specifically requires legal rights, etc etc?

 

[MrKerf]

Or did I make that exact argument about another verse... Not sure.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Dream SMP could probably be added to the wiki if someone makes like a super detailed thread about why it's legit and stuff
Adding it to the wiki might remove the FC/OC pages tho, so that's not good

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Red Vs. Blue is allowed almost solely because of how it was given the greenlight by 343. I doubt it would be here otherwise.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Red Vs. Blue is allowed almost solely because of how it was given the greenlight by 343. I doubt it would be here otherwise.

This is the case, aye. To speak on another example that I'm a bit more knowledgeable on, Critical Role would be permitted on the wiki because it was integrated by WotC. Random Minecraft RPs aren't formally integrated into Minecraft canon or what have you- they are fanfiction. Publishing your fanfiction doesn't really change it from being fanfiction.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

I mean, I don't see why using Minecraft as a medium to tell a story makes it a fanfic, especially if said story has its own original Lore and mechanics

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Oh, well I do.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

The Enderdragon, Wither, and other mobs are still used. Those are copyrighted characters appearing in an unofficial storyline.

I guess if a Minecraft RP series somehow managed to avoid every single copyrighted material from vanilla Minecraft, that could be allowed. No mobs, different textures, etc.

But that isn't the case for DSMP or PCF.

 

[MrKerf]

Critical Role

Wait, but if it was just a Campaign, without official rulebooks or animations, it wouldn't warrant its own verse? Despite details?

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Most ordinary mobs (Zombies, Skeletons, Spiders...) are generic enough that them appearing probably isn't too much of a big deal

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Wait, but if it was just a Campaign, without official rulebooks or animations, it wouldn't warrant its own verse? Despite details?

Depends. Published content and animations don't make Critical Role acceptable, WotC making it canon does. If WotC did nothing to make it canon, then yeah, it would be FC/OC content. That's what FC stands for. Fan Content. We have an entire wiki for that, run by good and competent people.

 

[MrKerf]

Depends. Published content and animations don't make Critical Role acceptable, WotC making it canon does. If WotC did nothing to make it canon, then yeah, it would be FC/OC content. That's what FC stands for. Fan Content. We have an entire wiki for that, run by good and competent people.

Yeah, I know that having Exandria's books makes it canon to DnD, but such level of detail and it wouldn't be allowed as standalone otherwise is just sad. Revision when?

I was thinking about converting Orion's radio-tale about Tiberius to profiles, but I suppose that wouldn't work as well T_T

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

What about Starkids' "A Very Potter Musical"?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It absolutely could have pages. Just on FC/OC.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

There's definitely a bit of a grey area here. However, I don't think PCF falls into that grey area. It blatantly uses characters like Thanos, the Ender Dragon, Wither, and Pikachu in its main storyline, without the permission of the owners of those characters.

Is that not enough to consider it fanfic?

If not, I'll get to work on Friday Night Fever, a Friday Night Funkin mod that distances itself from the game its based on almost completely besides two vauge references. Win-win situation

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Can someone get @Oliver_de_jesus here

let him speak please since he is the one responsible for creating the verse

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Bambu ping him here please thanks

 

[Psychomaster35]

@Oliver_de_jesus

Your verse is up for deletion

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Alright. @Oliver_de_jesus Got anything to add?

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I really hope he can persuade you guys not to delete it considering I have an added matchup with Pacheco himself on there and if it gets delete that match will be a waste

 

[MrKerf]

While two staff members are here, can I ask you to take a look here? Similar discussion.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I will post later, I'm away from my pc
Just so you know,


But i can said Thanos' story is altered by a lot and he only appears in those two chapters for a long time.

Also the novelization of king Kong (1932) is in public domain

King Kong (1932 novelization)

King Kong is a novel written by Delos W. Lovelace in 1932 at the request of his friend Merian C. Cooper based on Cooper's then-upcoming film King Kong to serve as part of the film's advertising. As a result of the copyright not being renewed and subsequently expiring, the novelization has...

wikizilla.org

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

This sounds very familiar...

 

[Shmooply]

This sounds very familiar...

Tony, my baby boy, read.

The difference being that Red vs Blue has been repeatedly given direct clearance and allowance by 343 Industries (the creators of Halo), such that Red vs Blue characters actually appeared (sort of) in the Halo games themselves. I doubt the same can be said here.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Again, Red vs. Blue is an official product endorsed by the creators of Halo. This, and Halo is really the only verse they use content from. PCF has its characters use Pokeballs and the Infinity Gauntlet (and includes characters such as Pikachu and Thanos) without permission from the license holders. This is all on top of the setting being set in Minecraft, which has its own set of copyrighted material such as the Wither, Snow Golems, and the Ender Dragon. This kind of thing is explicitly against the site rules -- "whereas "fan-made" refers to ones appearing within fanfiction or works containing a sufficient amount of another piece of fiction's copyrighted material without official permission."

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Guys, before you say that RvB is different because it has permission from Mojang, keep in mind that Mojang gives permission as long as you follow the rules, which Killer does, in addition to the Planetadelibros publishing house (so it was not homemade and then it was published on amazon, it had to go through a company that is dedicated to books, with its rules and policies), otherwise the book or the verse would be nuked by mojang after all, the channel has nearly 5 million views

All the contents of the Web page, unless otherwise indicated, are the exclusive property of THE COMPANY and, including but not limited to, graphic design, source code, logos, texts, graphics, illustrations, photographs, and others. elements that appear on the web page.

Similarly, all trade names, trademarks or distinctive signs of any kind contained on the website are protected by law.

THE COMPANY does not grant any type of license or authorization for personal use to the User regarding its intellectual and industrial property rights or any other right related to its Website and the services offered on it.

Therefore, the User acknowledges that the reproduction, distribution, commercialization, transformation, and in general, any other form of exploitation, by any procedure, of all or part of the contents of this Web page constitutes an infringement of intellectual property rights. and/or industrial of THE COMPANY or the owner thereof.

Also keep in mind that it is not an extreme amount of external elements used for the main plot, they are episodes that come and go but are not part of the central plot that revolves around the arrival of Pachoco in the main universe that has been preparing for almost 10 years (There are episodes like 10 and episode 77 is connected with 99 or others that are also connected and the whole movie is based on a kind of prelude to the appearance of Pachoco)

also a minor thing DO NOT compare Pacheco with an RolePlay like Dream SMP, it is totally different in terms of narrative, basically it would be like an animated series and all that, not a RP at any time during the 10 years the story was worked on.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Guys, before you say that RvB is different because it has permission from Mojang, keep in mind that Mojang gives permission as long as you follow the rules, which Killer does, in addition to the Planetadelibros publishing house (so it was not homemade and then it was published on amazon, it had to go through a company that is dedicated to books, with its rules and policies), otherwise the book or the verse would be nuked by mojang after all, the channel has nearly 5 million views



Also keep in mind that it is not an extreme amount of external elements used for the main plot, they are episodes that come and go but are not part of the central plot that revolves around the arrival of Pachoco in the main universe that has been preparing for almost 10 years (There are episodes like 10 and episode 77 is connected with 99 or others that are also connected and the whole movie is based on a kind of prelude to the appearance of Pachoco)

also a minor thing DO NOT compare Pacheco with an RolePlay like Dream SMP, it is totally different in terms of narrative, basically it would be like an animated series and all that, not a RP at any time during the 10 years the story was worked on.

If we followed your logic I could legitimately publish any given piece of tabletop homebrew for practically any system, as that is the standard for said things. I believe your stance would also allow all mods for any game that supports them on, say, Steam.

Both of these would feature both a broad sweeping allowance by the company to make said product (not, mind you, inclusion of or validation of the product- just the fact that they will not tear it down) and an external company (DMs Guild and Steam respectively). The problem remains that they are fanfiction.

It is fanfiction. What is the issue, I wonder, with keeping it on the site specifically made for fanfiction?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I hate to keep returning to this verse as an example, but SCP comes to mind as a comparison for what you, Oliver, are specifically addressing: the idea that, if the original piece of media allows people to make offshoot works, that this permission immediately validates all of said works.

SCP, functionally, does this, with one exception: for us to accept such a page, it must be accepted onto the SCP wiki. Same for tales or anything else, it has to be brought into the fold, even though anybody can make their own SCPs building off of what every other author has written.

 

[MrKerf]

SCP

Ugh

If we followed your logic I could legitimately publish any given piece of tabletop homebrew for practically any system, as that is the standard for said things. I believe your stance would also allow all mods for any game that supports them on, say, Steam.

And I would personally argue that, if it is above certain line of popularity and quality, it should be allowed. Just like SCP has an amount of approvals it needs to collect. It technically is the same thing (admins - game developers/rightholders, authors - modmakers), as long as, following your example, the game clearly outlines rules and priviledges your work on marketplace has.
Honestly, how many our rules does SCP dances around?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Ugh

And I would personally argue that, if it is above certain line of popularity and quality, it should be allowed. Just like SCP has an amount of approvals it needs to collect. It technically is the same thing (admins - game developers/rightholders, authors - modmakers), as long as, following your example, the game clearly outlines rules and priviledges your work on marketplace has.
Honestly, how many our rules does SCP dances around?

^

Also i thought Those rules were made simply to define what the articles were ok to have a canon, not the verse itself

So you're saying that hundreds of physical books sold in bookstores that you can find in Spain, which collects taxes and all that, are not enough compared to a simple wiki?

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

Hmm

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I mean more than 1,000,000,000,000 views in total for the entire channel, wouldn't that make it popular? (that's more than twice the viewing times of RvB on its main channel)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Ugh

And I would personally argue that, if it is above certain line of popularity and quality, it should be allowed. Just like SCP has an amount of approvals it needs to collect. It technically is the same thing (admins - game developers/rightholders, authors - modmakers), as long as, following your example, the game clearly outlines rules and priviledges your work on marketplace has.
Honestly, how many our rules does SCP dances around?

I cannot overstate enough that a piece of fiction cannot transcend it's nature as fanfiction by popularity alone. It isn't the same thing as SCP, that's the entire point I've been making. There is a distinction between an SCP I personally could write and what is accepted on their wiki.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

^

Also i thought Those rules were made simply to define what the articles were ok to have a canon, not the verse itself

So you're saying that hundreds of physical books sold in bookstores that you can find in Spain, which collects taxes and all that, are not enough compared to a simple wiki?

Yeah.

 

[MrKerf]

I cannot overstate enough that a piece of fiction cannot transcend it's nature as fanfiction by popularity alone. It isn't the same thing as SCP, that's the entire point I've been making. There is a distinction between an SCP I personally could write and what is accepted on their wiki.

But don't you see how the only difference is the fact that it is posted on the same place as the original and has... popularity.

You can personally write and SCP.
Then you can allow someone else to write about the same SCP.
And, if it were to be accepted by popularity vote, it becomes canon. Or extended canon, same thing.
And thus, ultimatly, a fanfiction of your SCP, written with your blessing yeah, transcends it's nature as fanfiction by popularity.

The only difference I see is... well, the fact that SCP tales and such are published in the same place as originals, unlike mods or DnD campaigns.
Am I wrong?