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Deagonx

Deagonx

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  • SweetDao
    Hello Deagonx and sorry to bother you, I would like to you know if I could get permission to comment on this thread.

    However, I'm not that much knowledgeable in Fate besides the very obvious stuff. Heck, I didn't know who Roa was before that stuff. Therefore if you refuse to grant me permission because of this, I would understand.

    My main contention with the thread is the fact that somehow, we use the words of someone like Roa as an absolute truth to deduce infinite higher dimensions when, frankly, I feel like he was just ranting about the finitude and shackles of existence. I mean his whole gimmick is literally transcending death by reincarnation, so I feel it's not completely out of context to assume.

    While I know it's not a massive argument for what I'm saying, there exists a similar saying in Chinese, There are people beyond (this) person, and skies beyond (this) sky. And the proverb in itself means literally the same thing as what Roa is saying.

    Roa : No matter how transcendent we become, there is always a higher level.

    Proverb : No matter how good you think you are, there is always someone out there that is better.

    The second case clearly doesn't refer to an infinitude of people above you, it's just metaphorical at most. We could also deal with the fact Roa uses Kiara to illustrate his words, but the fact "dimension" here is clearly used as a "plane of existence" rather than spatial ones is enough to disprove such a statement.
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    Sure, can you post a draft here of what you intend to say exactly?
    SweetDao
    SweetDao
    I have some contention with the quote of Roa. Moreover, I feel like the bigger context of the scene was left out by these screenshots themselves.

    In the first scan, we can see there is a bit of text untranslated at the top. When translated, it gave me the following quote :

    Why reincarnate? It would be easier to continue living as an individual and not bother others.

    Since the literal following of the sentence is him talking about how "endless is the human perception and path to omnipotence" we can safely assume that the context before that sentence is important to truly grasp the meaning of it. He first and foremost talks about himself and reincarnation before talking about higher-dimensional stuff. Maybe I'm wrong, but no matter what, I STRONGLY feel that everyone needs the full scene and not just the interesting tidbits to fully understand the scene.

    As such I strongly advocate for a link or a fully screenshotted album of that scene before making any assumptions regarding what it could give.

    With that out of the way, I would like to tackle Roa's quote directly.

    There is no end to human perception, no end to the path to omnipotence. No matter how transcendent we become, there is always a higher level
    Click to expand...
    I have a massive problem with that latter half. No matter how I read it or I interpret it, I can only see someone talking about the meaningless of the "human" existence and the finitude of life. His whole "There is no end to human perception" feels more like he's saying "There is no true path and people see stuff differently" rather than literally stating "Perception can extend to infinite dimensions". Of course, it's with taking the context BEFORE the quote itself.

    The part with the endless path to omnipotence is interesting but no matter how you interpret it, you can't assume it's dealing with "endless levels of higher dimensions to reach omnipotence".

    One of the main reasons for this is because Kiara gained supposed "omnipotence" through higher-dimension senses in this dimension.
    She says that she was demonized by Sabbat and gained higher dimensional senses that made her omnipotent in this dimension.
    Click to expand...
    Now here is the thing. Either what Kiara gained isn't what we can proclaim as "true omnipotence" or she indeed gained the very same omnipotence Roa was talking about. If it's the second case, I would request an explication on why getting higher dimensional senses somehow would grant her omnipotence but I guess it's explained somewhere or just fate doing fate stuff. There is a more interesting question to ask and it's the fact Roa only used Kiara (who was higher dimensional +1 to the humans) to illustrate his words. If I can remember correctly, there was also a scene (somehow not in the OP too) where Kiara is seen as being a mere ant in front of the demonic heavens or whatever their name was, and she preferred to stay/return to the human world.

    Here is the quote I'm referring to.

    My view on that matter is really simple. What could be regarded as omnipotence for someone might just be a power gap for someone else. Those demonic gods are more powerful than Kiara, but nothing dictates that it must be in a Higher Dimensional kind of way.

    In fact, I'll go even further, just like the beginning of the scene was Roa dealing with existence in a metaphorical way (reincarnation/sense of self), I'm quite sure Kiara, who said something similar, is also referring to the finitude and meaninglessness of her existence in front of higher being.

    I spent my whole life trying to gain the eyes to see, but what those eyes saw was not only the truth of the world, but also a lesser version of me.
    It was as if I had strived to know my own miserable self.
    No matter how small the world may be, this me is worth a little more than that one over there?
    Click to expand...
    Notice that we're dealing with "eyes to see", the ability to perceive mentioned by Roa himself. This whole rant is nothing more than a way for himself to explain to the reader that there is no way to truly achieve freedom. Be it via reincarnation, higher dimensionality, or omnipotence, there is no way to truly gain what he's searching.

    Alongside that, I would like to now tackle his semantics.
    There is no end to human perception, no end to the path to omnipotence. No matter how transcendent we become, there is always a higher level.
    Click to expand...
    With everything I explained above, we can safely assume that the latter half is nothing more than him saying, poetically or metaphorically, that there is always someone above you, in the sense that there is someone better than you.

    While not a strong argument, there is a similar proverb in Chinese.
    No matter how good you think you are, there is always someone out there that is better.
    Click to expand...
    I don't think someone reading this would understand "there is an infinite hierarchy of people better than me", no. It just means there is always a sky above you in a conceptual manner, not in a literal way. In my opinion, this is exactly what Roa is doing there. Therefore, I disagree with the usage of that statement to grant a High 1-B Tier.
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    Okay, that looks good to me.
    Agnaa
    Deagonx said:
    However, for a user to comment indefinitely, they need Bureaucrat approval, they can't just keep renewing approval from a thread mod and circumvent that restriction.
    Click to expand...
    Can you explain where this is said?

    I was under the impression that thread mods and admins could keep renewing their approval on a post-by-post basis, as that would be equivalent to them making the posts themselves.
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    I don't believe it was spelled out explicitly, but it seems like the natural conclusion from the limitation. Otherwise the differentiation would be somewhat meaningless?

    Although in this case even if that was the rule, I am not okay with him receiving a no from me and seeking out another mod in response
    Agnaa
    Agnaa
    The differentiation would be that we want staff members looking over every post, to make sure that they don't go in unnecessary circles. I've done that myself, given permission for 2 or 3 and then stopped once they stopped bringing up new points.

    Fair enough.
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    Fair enough. Perhaps we need more clarity on it.
    Thelastmlg
    View previous comments…
    Thelastmlg
    Thelastmlg
    "i think adding "physical" to the movement wouldn't make a difference since pretty much all speed feats, or even a lot time travel, uses physical movement, more importantly, changing "beyond" to "through" might not help much because a lot of feats that people think are immesurable are just time travel activated with speed or just movement/gestures, and this might confuse others"

    "the main thing about immensurable speed is that your movement is not bound to the flow of time, as in, you aren't obligatted to have your actions take place in the present and affect the future like the usual timeline, you can interact with, reach and react to any of the 3 periods of time due to not being stuck in any of them at once"

    "so technically speaking, movement "beyond" linear time is perfect, the issue is that a lot of time, "beyond" and "transcending" are related to simply breaking out of the grasp of time and/or space by moving around them with more freedom, regardless of the methods utilized, such as powers or devices, if they were to use those words to refer to actual movement that surpass the limits of time itself, instead of the mere act of going from Hour A to Hour B, it would be accurate"

    "so instead, we could perhaps change it to "movement that is not limited to linear time" or something that emphasis on your freedom"
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    Sure, but begin your post by saying I gave you permission so that theres no confusion.
    Thelastmlg
    Thelastmlg
    alrighty
    Georredannea15
    The plane of existence, which is claimed as the called "higher plane of existence", actually stems from its being on an inaccessible and incomprehensible plane of existence that transcends infinite 4-D universes, 4-D beings, 4-D powers and all other mythologies.

    Higher existence resides on an inaccessible plane of existence that completely transcends all lower planes and beings. In parallel with this, it has a higher power that they cannot reach. This is why it is called the "higher plane of existence".

    As a result, no power, mind, spirit or existence on the lower plane of existence can reach this higher plane of existence. The reason is UES bullshit.
    Phsccarvalho
    I have a question about HDE.

    Let's say such energy is accepted to be 4D. And a being is made of that 4D energy. Could this qualify as being HDE?
    Samael_010
    What your opinion on Lucifer being TGD?
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    It contradicts some of his earlier depictions, but makes sense with the Watters run and the current TGD arc.
    EndlessWords
    Hi Deagonx.
    I wanted to ask your permission to comment on this thread.
    I want to make a clarification on the statements that are used for this revisiob because for me, the statements that give tier 1-A to the verse are simply unusable because they literally mean nothing.
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    You should ask Ultima or another admin. That thread is already pretty messy and I don't want to add to that.
    EndlessWords
    EndlessWords
    Very well, thank you for your reply.
    TastyCream
    Hey there, so I have a question regarding DC cosmology and it’s whether the scan thats talks about 8 dimensions mobius loop and the 28 dimensions. Are both of those accepted or can you disprove them?
    PrinceofPein
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    Okay, the new rules are that permission is granted one post at a time aside from Bureaucrats. Can you tell me what you'd like to say?
    PrinceofPein
    PrinceofPein
    Bring new info to light and how all the supporters actually agreed to delete it for the same reason as dread and use LN only and this new thread feels underhanded
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    I'd prefer to PM me a draft of it, I want to make sure things do not become heated.
    Rakih_Elyan
    Can I post on your Negative Theology Staff discussion page?
    Deagonx
    Deagonx
    What would your post be?
    Rakih_Elyan
    Rakih_Elyan
    I'd say that Negative Theology is only Apophatic to things that are shown in the verse itself.
    So just +1 Infinity.
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