Dbs downgrade

[StekFence]

So, the Multiplier page states “If multiple multipliers are to be stacked, that are used upon each other, the evidence for the end result is equal to the total multiplier applied to the best feat. That means that if, for example, a character has a times 10 multiplier and later on gets another times 50 multiplier, than the evidence necessary to use both multipliers to get a statistic, is like that of a times 500 multiplier, as the best feat would be increased by a factor of 500 in that case.”

Currently, Dbs characters speed is the BoG speed feat being multiplied by stacked multipliers, due to transformations. However, this feat is many orders of magnitudes slower than the speeds that these characters scale to, without any feats that come close to it. example- Mui scales one billion two hundred fifty million times the BoG feat. And there is 0 evidence to support such an increase in speed. Mui Tier characters don’t have or scale to any feats that come remotely close to this fast, as far as I know.

Thus, as I understand it, the way their speed is scaled is fundamentally opposed to the standards and should thus be changed.
if I’m wrong, then oops

Disagree:Guacamole,Tilted, Godofice, Luffy, Klol, Clover, Boyin,Arnold,Serlock
Agree:Timmy, Aerrow

 

[Stryker861]

 

[StekFence]

Gotta keep the ratings unstable

 

[omegabronic]

huh, well, i think some of them could stay, but oh well, i will wait for more responses

 

[StekFence]

I do think that some of the early ones should stay, since It should be fine to say, for instance, X characters scales 50x the BoG feat or something, but it seems you literally can’t stack multipliers without supporting feats

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Currently, Dbs characters speed is the BoG speed feat being multiplied by stacked multipliers, due to transformations. However, this feat is many orders of magnitudes slower than the speeds that these characters scale to, without any feats that come close to it. example- Mui scales one billion two hundred fifty million times the BoG feat. And there is 0 evidence to support such an increase in speed. Mui Tier characters don’t have or scale to any feats that come remotely close to this fast, as far as I know.

The multipliers and the characters getting faster and blitzing each other, is the evidence....

You want them to replicate the feat but just one billion times faster to justify ratings on a site in a different continent? That's not how people write. The feat was done, and there isn't really another finite speed feat we can use here. It's like you're asking the writers of DBS to have a hyper-specific feat to back them up being faster when we know they're faster for a fact.

Goku uses kaioken x10, which is a confirmed 10x multiplier in speed. You want them to back it up with a feat, with goku reacting to shockwaves 10x faster? Why? There's extra skepticism that's completely unwarranted in this situation. Hard disagree for me, thread isn't correct.

 

[StekFence]

You want them to replicate the feat but just one billion times faster to justify ratings on a site in a different continent? That's not how people write. The feat was done, and there isn't really another finite speed feat we can use here. It's like you're asking the writers of DBS to have a hyper-specific feat to back them up being faster when we know they're faster for a fact.

I don’t really want anything, it just contradicts the standards so it’s invalid
Plus, we all know they are getting faster, I’d like to say that I know this. Its just the evidence for this specific value is non existent

Goku uses kaioken x10, which is a confirmed 10x multiplier in speed. You want them to back it up with a feat, with goku reacting to shockwaves 10x faster? Why?

For Kaioken, it’s not needed because it wouldn’t be stacking a multiplier

 

[omegabronic]

I do think that some of the early ones should stay, since It should be fine to say, for instance, X characters scales 50x the BoG feat or something, but it seems you literally can’t stack multipliers without supporting feats

you can stack multipliers yes, but the bigger they are and the bigger the final result of the stack and the number that you get from it, the more evidence and supporting evidence you need

 

[Quantu]

What are you proposing? Nuking multipliers or standards change?

 

[StekFence]

Uhh pretty much? I don’t really know if my argument applies to Ap since I’m pretty sure there are lots of ap feats tho

 

[omegabronic]

The multipliers and the characters getting faster and blitzing each other, is the evidence....

not trying to argue against you or anything, but how many times has this occured? and more, how much frequent is it in each saga?

You want them to replicate the feat but just one billion times faster to justify ratings on a site in a different continent? That's not how people write.

again, not trying to argue against the multipliers, but this is a site standard thing, you kind of need supporting evidence if you want to stack multipliers to such a level, for example, a 10x multiplier is completely fine with an overall display of superior stats, as it is small, but for multipliers above 100, that is when you need to get a little bit of more evidence, and the bigger they are the bigger the evidence needs to be, again, not trying to say anything against the multipliers, just explaining what is this thread's concerns

The feat was done, and there isn't really another finite speed feat we can use here. It's like you're asking the writers of DBS to have a hyper-specific feat to back them up being faster when we know they're faster for a fact.

again, don't blame him, it is a site standard, simple as that

Goku uses kaioken x10, which is a confirmed 10x multiplier in speed. You want them to back it up with a feat, with goku reacting to shockwaves 10x faster? Why? There's extra skepticism that's completely unwarranted in this situation.

see, for small multipliers like that, we don't need that much evidence, we can simply have an overall display of superior speed in that case

Multipliers

A multiplier is generally some number a different number is multiplied with to get a new number. For our VS Battles use we more specifically refer to a number as multiplier, if that number is multiplied with some statistic of a character or its attacks to get a new statistic for the character...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[omegabronic]

Uhh pretty much? I don’t really know if my argument applies to Ap since I’m pretty sure there are lots of ap feats tho

i mean, i am not sure how the standard applies to high 3-A and above feats, like, a baseline tier 2-C feat with a multiplier chain will not be able to have such feat, since if they destroy 3 it will already be far above any multiplier, so......... idk, probably would need the assistance of an admin to figure out how would this apply to the ap of the chars

 

[StekFence]

Somebody else can figure that out, this is a speed thread anyways

 

[TiltedFN]

I agree with guac, and these multipliers again have been proven to be linear increases for speed also, are you proposing that they have to perform a feat greater than the one we are basing the speed off of? Wouldn't like tons of characters speed get nuked for this reason? In the blog it's explained that goku and beerus do scale to the explosion of the energy blast, and with the SS multiplier being taken into account here, with base goku getting stronger in base than those previous states, anybody who scales to them would also be that fast. We even have a speed feat from beerus that gets into the quadrillions and goku can still keep up.

 

[Stryker861]

Based on the sites standards anyway stacking large multipliers will need more evidence for them so the op technically isent wrong but also like guac said the feats are the evidence so im not really sure what counts as more proof

 

[StekFence]

are you proposing that they have to perform a feat greater than the one we are basing the speed off of? Wouldn't like tons of characters speed get nuked for this reason?

It’s less what I propose, and more that the standards for multipliers itself say this. If you disagree with me, kindly prove that this is congruent with the standards

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Well, for those who don't understand the subject and why the multipliers are so high

Here on this CRT is the answer

https://vsbattles.com/threads/ssjg-and-uio-multiplier.154116/

 

[Huesito88]

It’s less what I propose, and more that the standards for multipliers itself say this. If you disagree with me, kindly prove that this is congruent with the standards

Ok so the standards say this, but would this also apply to there AP or it that mutually exclusive? Since they do have greater ap feat right now. (Until Low 2-C - 2-A might get all merged together =P)

 

[StekFence]

Idfk

 

[omegabronic]

Well, for those who don't understand the subject and why the multipliers are so high

Here on this CRT is the answer

https://vsbattles.com/threads/ssjg-and-uio-multiplier.154116/

That thread is not applied as of now
, and that wouldn't solve the main point this thread is covering

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

That thread is not applied as of now
, and that wouldn't solve the main point this thread is covering

This explains a good part of the high multipliers and there are more on vsbttles, just find it by searching "multipliers"

 

[omegabronic]

Ok so the standards say this, but would this also apply to there AP or it that mutually exclusive? Since they do have greater ap feat right now. (Until Low 2-C - 2-A might get all merged together =P)

Somebody else can figure that out, this is a speed thread anyways

I think this is more of a situation to be solved within the standards thrmselves, since there is no possible feat in tier 2 above earliet values without being higher than infinities higher, let us focus on the speed for now, i will start planning for a staff thread to see how the multiplier standards apply to tier 2 onwards

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I think this is more of a situation to be solved within the standards thrmselves, since there is no possible feat in tier 2 above earliet values without being higher than infinities higher, let us focus on the speed for now, i will start planning for a staff thread to see how the multiplier standards apply to tier 2 onwards

If we could use multipliers to reach tier 2 everyone in DB would be in 2-B, there are some verses that use this a lot, but this is never accepted for DB ( I think )

 

[omegabronic]

If we could use multipliers to reach tier 2 everyone in DB would be in 2-B, there are some verses that use this a lot, but this is never accepted for DB ( I think )

This is not what i was talking about, nevertheless, this is also derail as this thread is about speed, go to the general discussion thread to talk about these types of stuff

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I disagree on the basis that the standards say you need proof and more proof to get a multiplier to get accepted if it’s beyond 100x not more proof that you can’t use the multiplier if it’s accepted so this is heavily taking the standards out of context

 

[StekFence]

could you rephrase that godofice?

 

[omegabronic]

I disagree on the basis that the standards say you need proof and more proof to get a multiplier to get accepted if it’s beyond 100x not more proof that you can’t use the multiplier if it’s accepted

and also if you want to stack them, when you stack one multiplier with another you need proof of the end result of said stack, and since stacking them is the basis of the scaling, you woul need more evidence for the stack at the end of the scaling

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Copied and pasted from multiplier page:

“However, a good statement alone is not enough to get a high multiplier accepted. The amount of extra evidence one has to provide to get larger multipliers accepted is proportional to the size of the multiplier. For lower multipliers, like things much less than times 100, evidence can take the form of a clear increase in combat strength against priorly equal or superior opponents. For higher multipliers, like times 100 and above, the importance of stronger evidence, such as feats displaying power of a similar magnitude as the value the multiplier points to or the multipliers importance to the plot of the story, and a higher amount of evidence becomes increasingly necessary.

If multiple multipliers are to be stacked, that are used upon each other, the evidence for the end result is equal to the total multiplier applied to the best feat. That means that if, for example, a character has a times 10 multiplier and later on gets another times 50 multiplier, than the evidence necessary to use both multipliers to get a statistic, is like that of a times 500 multiplier, as the best feat would be increased by a factor of 500 in that case.”

This is telling us that you need more evidence for a multiplier to be accepted and a statement alone isn’t enough as you need more evidence to get it accepted as the increase is more dramatic you are trying to extrapolate this by claiming that even when we have an accepted multiplier we would need proof it’s consistent each time? When does the multiplier page state this its talking about to get a multiplier accepted in general this is heavily taking out of context what the multiplier page entails

 

[omegabronic]

Copied and pasted from multiplier page:

“However, a good statement alone is not enough to get a high multiplier accepted. The amount of extra evidence one has to provide to get larger multipliers accepted is proportional to the size of the multiplier. For lower multipliers, like things much less than times 100, evidence can take the form of a clear increase in combat strength against priorly equal or superior opponents. For higher multipliers, like times 100 and above, the importance of stronger evidence, such as feats displaying power of a similar magnitude as the value the multiplier points to or the multipliers importance to the plot of the story, and a higher amount of evidence becomes increasingly necessary.

If multiple multipliers are to be stacked, that are used upon each other, the evidence for the end result is equal to the total multiplier applied to the best feat. That means that if, for example, a character has a times 10 multiplier and later on gets another times 50 multiplier, than the evidence necessary to use both multipliers to get a statistic, is like that of a times 500 multiplier, as the best feat would be increased by a factor of 500 in that case.”

This is telling us that you need more evidence for a multiplier to be accepted and a statement alone isn’t enough as you need more evidence to get it accepted as the increase is more dramatic you are trying to extrapolate this by claiming that even when we have an accepted multiplier we would need proof it’s consistent each time?

Well, wheb you are applying a multipliet and stacking each time via making a character above the earlier multiplied value each time, you are stacking multipliers and creating a new one, so i don't see what you are pointing out here exactly, since the entire basis of the scaling is stacking multipliers

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I agree with the OP, essentially asserting that MUI can be 1,000,000,000x+ faster without any feats or statements depicting a speed on that level is ridiculous.

If the multipliers don’t have any feats backing them up then intense jumps like this shouldn’t be a thing. There’s literally not a single speed feat after the BOG feat yet he’s somehow a bajillion times faster

 

[StekFence]

you are trying to extrapolate this by claiming that even when we have an accepted multiplier we would need proof it’s consistent each time?

Not at all, rather my gripe is with this -

If multiple multipliers are to be stacked, that are used upon each other, the evidence for the end result is equal to the total multiplier applied to the best feat.

Which is obviously a tall order when the multipliers are millions or more for newer forms and there aren’t many feats. I don’t have a problem with saying Ssj has X multiplier or anything like that, since for forms like Ssj, it’s pretty much stated, but something like MUI is different.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Well, wheb you are applying a multipliet and stacking each time via making a character above the earlier multiplied value each time, you are stacking multipliers and creating a new one, so i don't see what you are pointing out here exactly, since the entire basis of the scaling is stacking multipliers

Not at all, rather my gripe is with this -

Which is obviously a tall order when the multipliers are millions or more for newer forms and there aren’t many feats. I don’t have a problem with saying Ssj has X multiplier or anything like that, since for forms like Ssj, it’s pretty much stated, but something like MUI is different.

It says you need evidence and the multiplier page states that evidence can take form of clear increase against equal matched or characters that were superior or equal before and they can also take the form of feats displaying of similar magnitude of the value that said multiplier increases would allude to or the multipliers importance to the plot of the story so basically how important it is to the story for a character to have that much more of an increase of strength which is probably the most important part so this would still apply to the dbs increases

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

This seems to be an issue with bad standards rather than DBS characters suddenly not being allowed to be ten times faster than a single feat because the writer didn't know our exact standards.

'Sorry we know Goku has proveably gotten thousands of times stronger but the writers didn't portray him busting a universe 2.4535 billion times larger than our own which means we can't scale him any higher than 10x the BoG feat.'

It's reductive and doesn't account for the disconnect between writer and power scaler.

 

[StekFence]

This seems to be an issue with bad standards

That would need a crt to rectify if you feel that way. The issue here is that it doesn’t fit the standards regardless of their qualit, so you either gotta change the standards, or argue they fit

It says you need evidence and the multiplier page states that evidence can take form of clear increase against equal matched or characters that were superior or equal before and they can also take the form of feats displaying of similar magnitude of the value that said multiplier increases would allude to or the multipliers importance to the plot of the story so basically how important it is to the story for a character to have that much more of an increase of strength which is probably the most important part so this would still apply to the dbs increases

that refers to single multipliers, not stacked ones.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

That would need a crt to rectify if you feel that way.

that refers to single multipliers, not stacked ones.

I was explaining what evidence refers to on the multiplier page

clear increase against equal or superior opponents, feats that are similar to the increase multipliers give, the multipliers importance to the plot

All 3 of these are stated to be evidence on the multiplier page

 

[TimmyTurnero]

This seems to be an issue with bad standards rather than DBS characters suddenly not being allowed to be ten times faster than a single feat because the writer didn't know our exact standards.

'Sorry we know Goku has proveably gotten thousands of times stronger but the writers didn't portray him busting a universe 2.4535 billion times larger than our own which means we can't scale him any higher than 10x the BoG feat.'

It's reductive and doesn't account for the disconnect between writer and power scaler.

Is this gigantic multiplier actually depicted in the series?

 

[StekFence]

For higher multipliers, like times 100 and above, the importance of stronger evidence, such as feats displaying power of a similar magnitude as the value the multiplier points to or the multipliers importance to the plot of the story, and a higher amount of evidence becomes increasingly necessary.

Well, no Speed feats, and the actual value of the speed increase many forms give is totally irrelevant.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Well, no Speed feats, and the actual value of the speed increase many forms give is totally irrelevant.

So there’s no time there’s a clear increase in speed and a speed increase that are important to the plot of the story?

 

[StekFence]

Obviously he got faster, but that’s not evidence that he’s a specific times faster than normal. It’s just as easily evidence that he’s any given amount faster. Nothing specifically points to the outrageous value we give him atm.
Also, bigger claims need more evidence, just saying that he got faster doesn’t tell Us how much

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Is this gigantic multiplier actually depicted in the series?

That was a hypothetical. And which multiplier are you referring to? SSG, UI, MUI, they are all treated as pretty massive jumps in power. Going to we can't use them because Goku didn't exactly state SSG makes him 46 and half times stronger is as I said, reductive. What's the solution, Goku can't be scaled more than 10x above a feat because the writers don't use give Goku a speed feat 10x greater than his last one? If so, then yeah, the standards need to change.