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Update Pre-Crisis Superman to Tier 2-C: Low Multiverse level

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Tbh i dont really even thing absorbing several universes counts as multi universal. Affecting multiple universes should also involve the gap between them as well.
 
Read this post said:
Arent most of the feats here 2-C? It would be kind of weird showing 2-C feats for a low 2-C rating.
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Pretty sure that only the feat with Jaxon can be trully considerated 2-C while the others are more like Low 2-C.
 
I would appreciate if somebody could reiterate the other feats to me.
 
JohnCenaNation said:
Every universe has a timeline, correct? Superman during his fight against Jaxon not only restored one future timeline, but many, and it's not like he was amped with outside power source or anything like that when he did this. Yet it is considered an outlier or a Low 2-C feat when nothing contradicts it? That's like saying Jiren shaking the World of Void is only a High 3-A feat, even though many characters stated he is above any characters Universe 7 fought against.
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One problem with the feat i could see is how do we scale "all timelines" like, does that just mean the few dozen we've seen on earth, or literally IMMEASURABLE or INFINITE timelines, cause that can get us anywhere from still being Low 2-C to upwards of 2-B or even 2-A which does start to contradict a whole lot of stuff (unless we powerscale EVERYONE up from that)

Again, i'm still in the camp that 2-C sounds reasonable, along with the Anti-Monitor feat (which i'm not sure about, because i don't remember how many universes he had absorbed at that point so i can't say if it helps) and i'd be fine with "Low 2-C, possibly 2-C" but if the experts disagree, well theres not much you can do.
 
Jared1111 said:
JohnCenaNation said:
Every universe has a timeline, correct? Superman during his fight against Jaxon not only restored one future timeline, but many, and it's not like he was amped with outside power source or anything like that when he did this. Yet it is considered an outlier or a Low 2-C feat when nothing contradicts it? That's like saying Jiren shaking the World of Void is only a High 3-A feat, even though many characters stated he is above any characters Universe 7 fought against.
Click to expand...
One problem with the feat i could see is how do we scale "all timelines" like, does that just mean the few dozen we've seen on earth, or literally IMMEASURABLE or INFINITE timelines, cause that can get us anywhere from still being Low 2-C to upwards of 2-B or even 2-A which does start to contradict a whole lot of stuff (unless we powerscale EVERYONE up from that)
Again, i'm still in the camp that 2-C sounds reasonable, along with the Anti-Monitor feat (which i'm not sure about, because i don't remember how many universes he had absorbed at that point so i can't say if it helps) and i'd be fine with "Low 2-C, possibly 2-C" but if the experts disagree, well theres not much you can do.
Click to expand...
Xenophobe didn't mention anything like infinite or immesurable timelines, he just simply mention possible timelines.
 
JohnCenaNation said:
Xenophobe didn't mention anything like infinite or immesurable timelines, he just simply mention possible timelines.
Click to expand...
Yeah, ALL possible timelines. And since the pre-crisis mutliverse was infinite, and did rely on an infinite branching paths deal where universes were created from the simplest changes, then it stands to reason ALL possible timelines could either be immeasurable or infinite.

But, i think in the case of this story, he probably just meant all Earth 1 timelines, so the few dozen or so What-If events plus the Jaxon and Legion of Superheroes.
 
Antvasima said:
I would appreciate if somebody could reiterate the other feats to me.
Click to expand...
Just so we avoid going anymore in circles, this would be very useful to get somewhere with the Low 2-C rating.
 
Well, he wasn't weakened, but he had not absorbed infinite universes yet.
 
Even while in base, struggling with Supergirl is an extreme low-end for the Anti-Monitor. Every single other showing he has is vastly above.
 
@Matthew

In order to finally get somewhere with this revision, would it be acceptable for you if we write something like this?

"At least Universe level+ (Restored his timeline via raw power alone during his fight with Jaxon. Fought against Maaldor who recreated his universe with his power. Supergirl managed to fight on even ground with the early Anti-Monitor, when the latter had only absorbed the power of a few universes.)"
 
@Matthew

I wrote my last post before I saw your reply. Even so, we need to get somewhere here.
 
"At least Universe level+ (Restored his timeline via raw power alone during his fight with Jaxon. Fought against Maaldor who could recreate his universe with his power. Supergirl managed to fight on even ground with the early Anti-Monitor, when the latter had only absorbed the power of a few universes.)"

As long as we also include the Big Bang feat.
 
Okay.

"Universe level+ (Restored his timeline via raw power alone during his fight with Jaxon. Pushed his way to the center of the Big Bang and destroyed a structure that had withstood the event. Fought against Maaldor who recreated his universe with his power. Supergirl managed to fight on even ground with the early Anti-Monitor, when the latter had only absorbed the power of a few universes.)"
 
He should probably also have immeasurable speed for the same reason as Eobard Thawne Professor Zoom, since he could travel through time via speed alone.
 
I think that we only have a profile for Superboy-Prime, but I suppose that we should only scale him as Low 2-C then, without any other statistics?
 
We also used to have a Pre-Crisis Mongul profile, but I think that was deleted.
 
Um wouldn't Supergirl beating up Anti-Monitor who absorbed the power of few universes be considered a 2-C feat, since the Anti-Monitor has power of more than one universe hence low multiverse level power? Also it wouldn't be right to say the Anti-Monitor was weakened when Supergirl attacked it, since we didn't see any wounds on the body prior to the assault. As for Superman during his fight against Jaxon, it wasn't just timeline he restored, but timelines hench low multiverse level as well.
 
Jared1111 said:
JohnCenaNation said:
Xenophobe didn't mention anything like infinite or immesurable timelines, he just simply mention possible timelines.
Click to expand...
Yeah, ALL possible timelines. And since the pre-crisis mutliverse was infinite, and did rely on an infinite branching paths deal where universes were created from the simplest changes, then it stands to reason ALL possible timelines could either be immeasurable or infinite.
But, i think in the case of this story, he probably just meant all Earth 1 timelines, so the few dozen or so What-If events plus the Jaxon and Legion of Superheroes.
Click to expand...
If it's just Earth-One future timelines, then it's still safe to say it's a Low Multiverse level feat at max. It's not anywhere near 2-B feat.
 
Personally i find fishy this scaling, Anti-Monitor at that point was already easily stronger than most Pre Crisis characters including Superman, so either Supergirl is stronger than his cousin or this is and outlier.

Also, Supergirl had still been killed by AM during the fight by one single energy blast, so i doubt that she is trully comparabile with AM.

Still, it does look like Jaxon feat is indeed 2-C, so i think is fair to rank Pre Crisis Superman at Low 2-C, possible 2-C.
 
Well, Matthew only accepts Low 2-C, so I suppose that we will have to go with that for the moment, in lack of better options.
 
Stefano4444 said:
Personally i find fishy this scaling, Anti-Monitor at that point was already easily stronger than most Pre Crisis characters including Superman, so either Supergirl is stronger than his cousin or this is and outlier.

Also, Supergirl had still been killed by AM during the fight by one single energy blast, so i doubt that she is trully comparabile with AM.

Still, it does look like Jaxon feat is indeed 2-C, so i think is fair to rank Pre Crisis Superman at Low 2-C, possible 2-C.
Click to expand...
I mean, even hurting a 2-C being badly enough to cause him to flee would still make her 2-C, even if she isnt' exactly comprable. And wasn't the whole point of that issue was that this was Supergir's last stand and she threw literally everything at the Anti-Monitor, pushing herself to the limit to stop him with all her rage (something that i don't remember Pre-Crisis Kryptonians ever doing that much) so it wasn't like this was some casual feat for her, it was her going all out to hurt the Anti-Monitor at that power and he was still able to get a good shot in and kill her.

Also, can it really be considered that much of a PIS when it was such a central plot point of COIE that she was able to hurt him, but still died trying? This wasn't like some random feat from a backup issue or wonky scaling from some what-if story... it was the characters final bout going all out, so i doubt it wasn't an intentional power play.

Either way, if Matthew says Low 2-C only, i'm fine.
 
So should we upgrade them to immeasurable speed as well?
 
Okay. I will have to try to find the time to update the profiles in a while.
 
Would this affect the outcome of his old battles? Alot of his the results would probably change now after the upgrade.
 
We would have to remove them, yes.
 
Jared1111 said:
Stefano4444 said:
Personally i find fishy this scaling, Anti-Monitor at that point was already easily stronger than most Pre Crisis characters including Superman, so either Supergirl is stronger than his cousin or this is and outlier.

Also, Supergirl had still been killed by AM during the fight by one single energy blast, so i doubt that she is trully comparabile with AM.

Still, it does look like Jaxon feat is indeed 2-C, so i think is fair to rank Pre Crisis Superman at Low 2-C, possible 2-C.
Click to expand...
I mean, even hurting a 2-C being badly enough to cause him to flee would still make her 2-C, even if she isnt' exactly comprable. And wasn't the whole point of that issue was that this was Supergir's last stand and she threw literally everything at the Anti-Monitor, pushing herself to the limit to stop him with all her rage (something that i don't remember Pre-Crisis Kryptonians ever doing that much) so it wasn't like this was some casual feat for her, it was her going all out to hurt the Anti-Monitor at that power and he was still able to get a good shot in and kill her.
Also, can it really be considered that much of a PIS when it was such a central plot point of COIE that she was able to hurt him, but still died trying? This wasn't like some random feat from a backup issue or wonky scaling from some what-if story... it was the characters final bout going all out, so i doubt it wasn't an intentional power play.

Either way, if Matthew says Low 2-C only, i'm fine.
Click to expand...
Stop, that's a ScrewAttack logic, we don't do that here. That's just like me saying Super Sonic, Super Shadow, and Super Silver are all Low 2-C and doesn't scale to Solaris's 2-C AP, even though they all managed to hurt Solaris during their fight, and survived blows from Solaris.
 
I also updated their lifting strengths to immeasurable by scaling from Superboy-Prime.
 
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