Update Pre-Crisis Superman to Tier 2-C: Low Multiverse level

[Stefano4444]

Agree at 100% for Low 2-C, i'm have a few doubts for 2-C and a big no for 2-B/2-A.

 

[Jared1111]

Yeah 2-B/2-A is way out of the question. I'm still for 2-C as this storyline does shows him performing a pretty clear 2-C feat, and it scales with what the green lanterns were dishing out alongside the higher 2-C Time Trapper, but if it's considered an outlier that's fine.

Though if that's the case, I wonder how a Pre-Crisis page on the Green Lanterns would work if their power alone could change time and space over "all timelines".

 

[Sandman31]

Pre-Crisis Darkseid beat a 2-C opponent like Infinite Man in a fight. Pre-Crisis Darkseid outright admitted and stated that Infinite Man's power is considered inferior comparing to his full power. Infinite Man is no slouch either.

Infinite Man is 2-C Problem is that thats not Infinite Man but Infinity-Man

 

[Jared1111]

Infinite Man is 2-C Problem is that thats not Infinite Man but Infinity-Man

"No you see, he didn't defeat Unbeatable-Man, he defeated Not Beatable Guy, completely different character."

DC Comics, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[Antvasima]

@Sandman31

So what should we do here?

 

[Sandman31]

Maybe Low 2-C? not really sure. I dont think that Blackstarr is Low 2-C, he also didnt fought Infinite Man who is 2-C. This feat rebooted a single universe so thats already a low 2-C feat, but it also said that it restored all possible timelines. Though I think 2-C too high and timeline can also just refer to the possible path the universe may take, Time Trapper has done something similar in the past which was when he warped all timelines so that the Legion wont be able to escape the universe he created which isnt exactly a 2-C or higher feat.

Maybe a Low 2-C or At least Low 2-C I guess

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Matthew seems to think that the feat is an outlier, but if the pre-Crisis Green Lanterns were also shown to be this powerful, I personally think that it seems useful

 

[Sandman31]

Those are Green Lanterns from the future

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, if Matthew is fine with "Low 2-C" or "At least Low 2-C", would you be willing to update the Superman (Pre-Crisis) page?

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Pre-Crisis Darkseid beat a 2-C opponent like Infinite Man in a fight. Pre-Crisis Darkseid outright admitted and stated that Infinite Man's power is considered inferior comparing to his full power. Infinite Man is no slouch either.

Infinite Man is 2-C Problem is that thats not Infinite Man but Infinity-Man

It was a typo error, I meant to say Infinity Man not Infinite Man.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Maybe Low 2-C? not really sure. I dont think that Blackstarr is Low 2-C, he also didnt fought Infinite Man who is 2-C. This feat rebooted a single universe so thats already a low 2-C feat, but it also said that it restored all possible timelines. Though I think 2-C too high and timeline can also just refer to the possible path the universe may take, Time Trapper has done something similar in the past which was when he warped all timelines so that the Legion wont be able to escape the universe he created which isnt exactly a 2-C or higher feat.
Maybe a Low 2-C or At least Low 2-C I guess

I found something that you might wanna look at:

https://plus.google.com/100131210275503254432/posts/W8fkfwyS1Es

 

[Pepe_Bizon]

I remembered Pre-Crisis superman altered time itself with sheer power so I think Low 2-C is pretty accurate.

 

[TrueBK98]

I also remembered that. I'll try to find it.

 

[Antvasima]

That would be appreciated.

 

[Jared1111]

I guess that makes sense, Low 2-C sounds good either way. Though I wonder where we would put Sword of Superman now. The same or just Unknown?

 

[KLOL506]

Unknown, at least Low 2-C sounds more appropriate.

 

[TrueBK98]

I couldn't find it after reading through hundreds of issues. But I found several times Superman broke the Time-barriers:

https://imgur.com/a/AgwlVHK

https://imgur.com/a/JDgdsLk

https://imgur.com/a/Qj720JZ

https://imgur.com/a/SzAJUFN

https://imgur.com/a/Hru1WVL

https://imgur.com/a/51pJ38W

https://imgur.com/a/AenD2L5

https://imgur.com/a/CIpSBAs

 

[JohnCenaNation]

I couldn't find it after reading through hundreds of issues. But I found several times Superman broke the Time-barriers:
https://imgur.com/a/AgwlVHK

https://imgur.com/a/JDgdsLk

https://imgur.com/a/Qj720JZ

https://imgur.com/a/SzAJUFN

https://imgur.com/a/Hru1WVL

https://imgur.com/a/51pJ38W

https://imgur.com/a/AenD2L5

https://imgur.com/a/CIpSBAs

Wouldn't that just give Superman 2-C feats?

 

[TrueBK98]

No, that's only High 3-A. Enough to backup Low 2-C.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

No, that's only High 3-A. Enough to backup Low 2-C.

Okay, also what's your opinion regarding to this?

https://plus.google.com/100131210275503254432/posts/W8fkfwyS1Es

 

[Jared1111]

Yeah all those seem to support a Low 2-C Superman but not much more. Outside of the Time Trapper one, but that's still probably Low 2-C.

 

[Antvasima]

Breaking the time barrier is generally considered to be a speed feat.

 

[TrueBK98]

It did say "crashing through" tho.

 

[TrueBK98]

No, that's only High 3-A. Enough to backup Low 2-C.

Okay, also what's your opinion regarding to this?
https://plus.google.com/100131210275503254432/posts/W8fkfwyS1Es

Outside than the Time Trapper one, it's just Low 2-C. Anti-Monitor at that point is already weakened, I believe.

 

[TrueBK98]

Darkseid said he can destroy the universe: https://imgur.com/a/P9ZWoTC

 

[Antvasima]

Going by the art style, that seems to be post-Crisis Darkseid, and also sounds like a boast or empty threat rather than fact.

 

[JMoney97]

The time trapper one was pocket verse superboy. Not exactly the same but based on pre crisis superman. It shud be a different entity altogether. Also, the other feats named on the google page were already on his profile if I recall correctly. I'd say Superman should had atleast low 2C because of this feat.

 

[JMoney97]

I'd also like to point out that Silver Age superman casually broke the barrier to the 5th dimension and pull pranks on Mr. Myx. Some of the silver age comics mention he uses strength instead of speed to break barriers. Which is why I don't consider alot of bis almost universal+ - Low multiversal feats as outliers. He has alot of high end feats.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am personally fine with Low 2-C or maybe 2-C, but it is best if you convince Matthew about it as well.

 

[Seventy96]

R.I.P Goku vs Superman

 

[TrueBK98]

Mr.Myx seems to be portrayed as equal to Superman at the time so there a several High 2-A outliers for PC Superman.

 

[TrueBK98]

Had anyone asked Mat yet?

 

[Antvasima]

You can ask him to comment here again if you wish.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't think Superman should be higher than Low 2-C, sorryl

 

[JMoney97]

So will bis profile be updated to low 2C?

 

[Jared1111]

Well if Matt says Low 2-C, then that's fine. An upgrade is an upgrade either way.

 

[Read_this_post]

Arent most of the feats here 2-C? It would be kind of weird showing 2-C feats for a low 2-C rating.

 

[Antvasima]

@Read this post

That is the problem here, yes. Somebody needs to find a Low 2-C feat to scale from.

 

[JohnCenaNation]

Every universe has a timeline, correct? Superman during his fight against Jaxon not only restored one future timeline, but many, and it's not like he was amped with outside power source or anything like that when he did this. Yet it is considered an outlier or a Low 2-C feat when nothing contradicts it? That's like saying Jiren shaking the World of Void is only a High 3-A feat, even though many characters stated he is above any characters Universe 7 fought against.

 

[Antvasima]

I am inclined to agree. Supergirl also almost overpowered the Anti-Monitor. The latter had not grown to anywhere near full power at the time, but I think that he had absorbed the power of several universes.