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Is Toriel scaled to Mettaton via 80 stats and the fact that she hold back like Asgore in fight?
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The Undertale CRT!! (Low to High Tiers ONLY)
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GodlyCharmander
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Yes, naturally.
Deleted member 16409
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What about Undying Undyne?
(NOW I CAN FINALLY THROW METTATON AGAINST SPAMTON, AND PROBABLY IN FUTURE THROW TORIEL UT AGAINST TORIEL DT, YAY)
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you fool... you could have thrown toriel at queen, BUT NOW IM STEALING THAT IDEA!
Deleted member 16409
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I know, but i will do KING FLUFFYBUNS AGAINST QUEEN, EHEHHEHEHEH
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Every enemy with zero Def gets one shotted, the Dummy, the Glad Dummy, Shyren, Vulkin, ICE. Flowey isn't a monster, especially Photoshop Flowey, you can't compare his stats to other monsters. I don't see any "inconsistences" in scaling monsters with the same DEF to have the same dura
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Deleted member 16409
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Is Flowey(base) gonna be 9-A via killing Core monsters and etc?
And are Undying Undyne gonna be 9-A?
And are Undying Undyne gonna be 9-A?
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Flowey did a genocide route before, so he should have killed other 9-A monsters.
GodlyCharmander
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I'd assume so, yes. He only seems fodder compared to Asgore-tier characters.
Bro... I have an entire post saying who scales to who on the first page.
Deleted member 16409
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I'm talking about Undyne Undying, not base one
GodlyCharmander
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Shit sorry, i switched the votes around lmao. Not sure how much longer im gonna be debating this honestly cuz of time so id rather get this over with soon.
Your argument is flawed atm. Youre basing an insane degree of backscaling to the next best feat on frisk (practically saying they dont scale) for taking a while to kill undyne, when real life examples show people who are comparable to eachother can take that many hits long before dying and someone ten times weaker can do it.
Your argument of them being "explicitely weaker" is them taking that many hits and "its all interpretive". So why should your interpretation of frisk being over 13 times weaker for taking time to beat someone to death be accepted when we have actual physics which say otherwise on the table thatd make them close or the same? And no physics in ut to say otherwise. Occams razor supports the latter.
Again, i just explained how the wiki treats the one shot gap and youve just completely ignored the point. Give me one character who badly damages another character with enough punches, that isnt some dura neg or weakness exposure, that is listed ten times weaker or more. The worst ive seen is being a few times weaker.
Heck i can go as far as to start bringing countless examples from other verses like iron man barely scratching thanos and scaling (though he scaled originally to large mountain+ and was only at most a couple times weaker).
Kinda funny as well you call people delusional for supposely backscaling ruins monsters to waterfall because of stat difference, while backscaling "waterfall frisk" and id guess waterfall/early hotlands monsters if thats still what your defending to undyne who is 20-30 points higher mainly for the purpose of making your method of dt scaling work.
How the hell did you unironically manage claim im saying the opposite of what i actually said and then debunk your own point earlier? Im not meaning to flame things up or anything but come on man!
"as long as its not absurd". A baseline human level to 2 times street level gap is absurd for someone who can beat you to death yes.
If me getting a little passive-agressive, calling an idea crazy and pointing out what youre doing is enough to get under your skin to the point of flipping out and openly refusing to have a normal discussion (not that youve listened much from the start) then thats your issue my dude. Least youre blunt about it so its something.
Your argument is flawed atm. Youre basing an insane degree of backscaling to the next best feat on frisk (practically saying they dont scale) for taking a while to kill undyne, when real life examples show people who are comparable to eachother can take that many hits long before dying and someone ten times weaker can do it.
Your argument of them being "explicitely weaker" is them taking that many hits and "its all interpretive". So why should your interpretation of frisk being over 13 times weaker for taking time to beat someone to death be accepted when we have actual physics which say otherwise on the table thatd make them close or the same? And no physics in ut to say otherwise. Occams razor supports the latter.
Again, i just explained how the wiki treats the one shot gap and youve just completely ignored the point. Give me one character who badly damages another character with enough punches, that isnt some dura neg or weakness exposure, that is listed ten times weaker or more. The worst ive seen is being a few times weaker.
Heck i can go as far as to start bringing countless examples from other verses like iron man barely scratching thanos and scaling (though he scaled originally to large mountain+ and was only at most a couple times weaker).
Kinda funny as well you call people delusional for supposely backscaling ruins monsters to waterfall because of stat difference, while backscaling "waterfall frisk" and id guess waterfall/early hotlands monsters if thats still what your defending to undyne who is 20-30 points higher mainly for the purpose of making your method of dt scaling work.
Frisk dealing 1-10 out of thousands of hp against flowey is baby damage. Raiden throwing over 100 punches at armstrong and not even taking away 10% health while they remain unphased in the cutscene is baby damage. Frisk taking about 20 hits to take away an extremely good chunk of undynes health even before doing that extra damage that kills her isnt baby damage at all. Its moderate damage which still makes you scale (even asking around in the vsbw server).
You actually cant be serious right now... I literally just said he doesnt care about energy levels or scaling... which is why your point of "if the author allows it to" is rubbish...
How the hell did you unironically manage claim im saying the opposite of what i actually said and then debunk your own point earlier? Im not meaning to flame things up or anything but come on man!
"as long as its not absurd". A baseline human level to 2 times street level gap is absurd for someone who can beat you to death yes.
For god sakes, how many times do i need to explain it for you to stop putting words in my mouth. Determination increases your power, and stats are a measurement of your power. Therefore strength from determination staying with you would be shown. Its literally just putting 1 and 1 together. If something contradicts it or the logic is somehow wrong then explain, otherwise you have nothing to refute it with. So far youve brought up their stats not changing anyway and ive countered stats being impossible to view during fights and you havent countered...
How is that lying? I just took the population and multiplied it by the minimum. if you want your method then you can make the suggestion instead of flipping out. I can do that scaling on there if you want... but theres still holes in your scaling quoted like the fact that youre scaling waterfall monsters to the oven feat despite saying that frisks durability in that scene is basically unquantifiable. And pyropes feat which has issues with battleboard consistency (though doesnt matter since hes stronger than the other hl monsters and comparable to some cores)
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Glad dummy technically doesnt have defences. But shyren deffo doesnt get one shotted by a lv 1 no weopans frisk.
Think its also characters having their striking strength scale. Though i take it you dont really wanna debate it, dont blame ya!
GodlyCharmander
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Lost interest, honestly. It feels like we're in an infinite circle.
We will proceed with the current most voted method, and a thread shall be made in case of disagreement with the new profiles, I will not be present though. Is that okay with you?
Deleted member 16409
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Give me link or something please
Deleted member 16409
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Glad Dummy shouldn't be here, it's just "Betrayal Kill"
GodlyCharmander
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here. I need to update this.
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i'Ll SaVe HuMaNiTy bY KiLlInG tHe ChIlD bEfOrE aSgOrE cAn BuT aLsO nOt AcTuAlLy TrY bEcAuSe RaTiNgS fOr ThIs OnE sHoW aRe dEfInItElY mOrE iMpOrTaNt ThAn aN EnTiRe SpEcIeS' wOrTh oF PoTeNtIaL vIeWeRs LaTeR oN why do undertale characters all have negative braincells jfc i want to punch all of them
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Whoah. Calm the **** down Funnimane.
GodlyCharmander
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A little bird called "HxH CRT" taught me that upscaling and downscaling are a acceptable thing. Se we're going to do that now.
Attack Potency
Who scales: Omega Flowey
The strongest a Human's SOUL is scaled to is 8-B (50.6 Tons)
Who scales: Peak Determination Frisk, Human SOULs
The strongest 9-A characters such as Asgore are scaled to Mettaton's feat (99.6 Megajoules)
Who scales: Asgore, Flowey, Mad Dummy, Mad Mew Mew, Mettaton, Muffet, Royal Guards, Toriel, Undyne.
Who scales: Papyrus, Pyrope, Aaron, Vulkin, Lemon Bread, Tsunderplane, Temmie, Shyren.
NOTE: Undyne calls Papyrus "really freaking tough", therefore he should be able to at least put up a fight, and those who scale to him alike.
Who scales: Doggo, Dogi, Endogeny, Greater Dog, Lesser Dog, Snowdrake's Mother, Glyde.
The weakest 9-B Characters are scaled to Chara's Fall (40 Kilojoules)
Who scales: Minimum Determination Frisk, Monster Kid, Froggit, Loox, Napstablook, Alphys, Gerson, Jerry, Moldsmal, Reaper Bird.
- Top Tier
Who scales: Omega Flowey
The strongest a Human's SOUL is scaled to is 8-B (50.6 Tons)
Who scales: Peak Determination Frisk, Human SOULs
The strongest 9-A characters such as Asgore are scaled to Mettaton's feat (99.6 Megajoules)
Who scales: Asgore, Flowey, Mad Dummy, Mad Mew Mew, Mettaton, Muffet, Royal Guards, Toriel, Undyne.
- Mid Tier
Who scales: Papyrus, Pyrope, Aaron, Vulkin, Lemon Bread, Tsunderplane, Temmie, Shyren.
NOTE: Undyne calls Papyrus "really freaking tough", therefore he should be able to at least put up a fight, and those who scale to him alike.
- Low Tier
Who scales: Doggo, Dogi, Endogeny, Greater Dog, Lesser Dog, Snowdrake's Mother, Glyde.
The weakest 9-B Characters are scaled to Chara's Fall (40 Kilojoules)
Who scales: Minimum Determination Frisk, Monster Kid, Froggit, Loox, Napstablook, Alphys, Gerson, Jerry, Moldsmal, Reaper Bird.
Speed
Who scales: STB4 Frisk, Undyne the Undying, Sans, Omega Flowey, Peak Determination Frisk.
The slowest Hypersonic characters are upscaled from Tsunderplane's speed feat (Mach 5)
Who scales: Asgore, Frisk (High DT), Flowey, Mettaton EX, Undyne, Toriel, Mad Mew Mew.
Who scales: Tsunderplane, Vulkin, Pyrope, Mad Dummy, Muffet, Mettaton, Royal Guards.
The Supersonic+ characters are scaled to the slowest Supersonic+ feat (Mach 3.05)
Who scales: Papyrus, Aaron, Shyren, Glyde, Lemon Bread, Temmie, Frisk with moderate DT
Who scales: Greater Dog's attack speed.
The fastest Subsonic+ characters are scaled to Frisk dodging feat (197m/s)
Who scales: Frisk, Doggo, Dogi, Greater Dog, Lesser Dog, Endogeny, Lesser Dog.
The slowest Subsonic+ characters are downscaled from Frisk's feat to baseline Subsonic+ (171.5m/s)
Who scales: Alphys, Froggit, Loox, Moldsmal, Reaper Bird, Napstablook.
The following Characters have unknown speed.
Gerson, Monster Kid, Snowdrake's Mother.
- Top Tier
Who scales: STB4 Frisk, Undyne the Undying, Sans, Omega Flowey, Peak Determination Frisk.
The slowest Hypersonic characters are upscaled from Tsunderplane's speed feat (Mach 5)
Who scales: Asgore, Frisk (High DT), Flowey, Mettaton EX, Undyne, Toriel, Mad Mew Mew.
- Mid Tiers
Who scales: Tsunderplane, Vulkin, Pyrope, Mad Dummy, Muffet, Mettaton, Royal Guards.
The Supersonic+ characters are scaled to the slowest Supersonic+ feat (Mach 3.05)
Who scales: Papyrus, Aaron, Shyren, Glyde, Lemon Bread, Temmie, Frisk with moderate DT
- Low Tiers
Who scales: Greater Dog's attack speed.
The fastest Subsonic+ characters are scaled to Frisk dodging feat (197m/s)
Who scales: Frisk, Doggo, Dogi, Greater Dog, Lesser Dog, Endogeny, Lesser Dog.
The slowest Subsonic+ characters are downscaled from Frisk's feat to baseline Subsonic+ (171.5m/s)
Who scales: Alphys, Froggit, Loox, Moldsmal, Reaper Bird, Napstablook.
The following Characters have unknown speed.
Gerson, Monster Kid, Snowdrake's Mother.
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GodlyCharmander
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"Whoa, calm the **** down [???]" is a reference to something, right?
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I heard it from Five Night at Fuckboy's 2, don't know if it's originally from that tho
Deleted member 16409
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Sans not gonna updated or downgraded?
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Glad Dummy has the same DEF as regular Dummy if you check it, you are confusing it for the Mad Dummy
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I think you mixed up Reaper Bird and Snowdrake's mom
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Im fine with the suggestion to get this done. Also fine with backscaling papyrus actually based on that (dunno id say baseline but sure!). Although shouldnt shyren scale to other waterfall monsters?
Also im good with peak dt frisk and chara scaling to the souls and weakened flowey being the same since frisk directly tanks the souls while flowey himself likely holds back (plus the tiny damage increasing could backscale). We using my blog for the 8-A scaling as well? I dont mind adding anything new if necessary.
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Isn't Chara already low 2-C or where they downgraded?
Deleted member 16409
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Chara is low 2-c.
And there's no talking about god tiers
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GodlyCharmander
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I meant like, Human Chara, not the one you see at the end of Genocide. But I guess Lv 20 Frisk would scale to that as Chara said they have reached the absolute.
GodlyCharmander
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Has to be baseline, we can't just assume a number, unfortunately-
I just put those who have profiles in the scaling. Shyren, and those comparable to her is 7 Megatons. Because Wall Level is such a gigantic tier, I can't quite backscale Snowdin Monsters to baseline, as this'd back them weaker.
Yes. Please update the blog to include my scaling the way I did it. (You can find it at the end of the last page) You can add at the very end as "Charmander's suggestion" or something. Then, if we make another thread another day to change the scaling to your version, we don't have to switch blogs. Sounds good?
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Well considering itd be less than a five times difference anyway, though with backscaling id do a "likely 9-A" rating instead of outright.
The thing is, shyrens attack is higher than woshua who can damage you alongside aaron at the same time. Moldbygg also scales to woshuas attack of 18, so really all waterfall monsters are comparable.
Working on it. Although are you sure about average snowdin monsters scaling to ice wolf? He is well, a really buff wolf. Kinda sounds like scaling the average person in a town to the body builder living down the road. I can definitely get around the royal guard at least though they wouldnt make too much difference.
And youd rather me use the 14600 value instead of 12000 right?
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I disagree that alive Chara would scale to the greatest known level of power for a human. Their only known feat is surviving their fall into the mountain, which is 9-B, and they seemed to do worse with it than Frisk even. Chara needed help from Asriel to walk after their fall, while Frisk was at 20/20 HP after theirs and moving around perfectly fine. Even considering that Frisk landed on a flower bed, I doubt that would make much difference when they're falling into a mountain hole.
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Also, at what point in the game exactly are you referring to "peak determination" Frisk?
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Asriel fight. Mostly.
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Then my doubt there leans on Frisk having Low 2-C durability during that fight for being able to survive Asriel's attacks. Granted, Frisk isn't even able to scratch Asriel during that fight, but a solid 8-B still seems weird.
GodlyCharmander
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Fair.
GodlyCharmander
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Omega Flowey fight too.
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8-B PSF Frisk sounds fine though if PSF is 8-A.
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