Undertale: The Genocide Route CRT

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

This post gave me a seizure and cataracts simultaneously. That said...

I agree with the basis for the argument against Mettaton's upgrade. Even if it is possible for Mettaton to be higher tiered, this reaches into the realm of outright unlikelihood given the evidence against it. I would like it to be known to all that even a "possibly" rating requires significant implications, and a lack of significant counter-evidence, which this particular upgrade does not have.

My formatting got roasted, ain't no way boi.

That being said.
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I would like it to be known to all that even a "possibly" rating requires significant implications, and a lack of significant counter-evidence, which this particular upgrade does not have.

May I use these words as the standard, along with the "possibly" description of the AP page from now on? It's best to have objectivity on things like these.

I find it challenging to engage with individuals who consider something as a foundation or evidence, even though it is completely unrelated to what they are attempting to demonstrate. Take, for instance, the Alphys argument presented by the OP. They argue that Alphys, being knowledgeable about human strength and possessing intelligence, should have the potential to create a robot capable of killing humans. How can I effectively convey to them that this is a significant logical leap? Merely possessing those two attributes does not serve as a basis for Alphys' engineering capabilities or the technological level of the fictional world, which is what they truly need to establish.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

May I use these words as the standard, along with the "possibly" description of the AP page from now on? It's best to have objectivity on things like these.

Possibly.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Well there's still the confidence scaling thing, don't think that has been countered yet

 

[StrymULTRA]

So we got a disagreement from Bambu for the 7-C stuff. I'd like more staff input given we're getting nowhere and I think that my stances are still solid enough, given that MTT was still confident at killing Chara.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Armorchompy actually did give his insight to me on Discord, since I'm not exactly familiar with Undertale. I'd like to hear his overall opinion. I don't know many Undertale-savy staff.

 

[StrymULTRA]

@Armorchompy actually did give his insight to me on Discord, since I'm not exactly familiar with Undertale. I'd like to hear his overall opinion. I don't know many Undertale-savy staff.

@Maverick_Zero_X @DarkDragonMedeus and @QrowBarr are the most interested ones iirc

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Well there's still the confidence scaling thing, don't think that has been countered yet

The fact that Neo is weaker than Undyne, who in turn was unable to defeat Lv 13 Chara, renders his confidence baseless.

Undyne's determination to defeat us aligns with the traits expected of a hero, reflecting more of a confidence rooted in personality.

Furthermore, even if Undyne possesses knowledge regarding the strength of a human soul, she has no knowledge on the fact that humans can harness this power for offensive purposes in a physical confrontation.

This issue can be viewed in a binary manner:

1. Either Undyne is aware of the DT Boosts.
2. Undyne is unaware of the DT Boosts.
   1. If Undyne possesses knowledge of the DT Boosts, her statement about Chara annihilating humanity would account for this power source. Undyne would be suggesting that once Chara surpasses everyone else, they can tap into the full power of a human and become strong enough to eradicate humanity.
   2. Conversely, if Undyne is unaware of the DT Boosts, her statement loses significance as she would not know that humans can augment their strength through the energy source of their soul.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

@Maverick_Zero_X @DarkDragonMedeus and @QrowBarr are the most interested ones iirc

DDM is fairly busy usually so I'll go for the other two. Even a 2-1 split would be an acceptable amount of judgement, one way or the other.

@Maverick_Zero_X Get in here, rat

@QrowBarr Missed you, you're drafted too.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

The fact that Neo is weaker than Undyne, who in turn was unable to defeat Lv 13 Chara, renders his confidence baseless.

Mettaton most likely didn't witness the Undying fight, and even if he did, he would have no clue how strong she actually was in that form,

Undyne's determination to defeat us aligns with the traits expected of a hero, reflecting more of a confidence rooted in personality.

I think that's the reason we usually list this type of scaling as a "possibly", however, her being surprised by her defeat suggests that this extends beyond mere confidence and aligns more with her actual power.
She also still considers the power of the 6 SOULs to be above both her and Frisk's, which would be consistent with the Waterfall Glyphs

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Also, Genocide Frisk getting stronger comes from LV, no?
Don't think anyone besides Flowey and Sans are aware of it

 

[StrymULTRA]

Also, Genocide Frisk getting stronger comes from LV, no?
Don't think anyone besides Flowey and Sans are aware of it

First we should start using "Chara" when talking about Genocide, I think them not being Frisk sounds clear enough by now.

Second, kinda. LV increases stats, with HPs being the most blatant proof.

 

[QrowBarr]

@QrowBarr Missed you, you're drafted too.

Agree with everything else on the OP barring the 7-C Mettaton stuff like what others pointed out. Sure, Alphys initially made him to be a "Human-Eradication" device, but whether or not he has the capacity to actually live up to that design is cast into doubt when we consider that:

a.) He's never faced a human before to prove that statement/purpose, and b.) When he actually does go up against a human, he gets his shit kicked in.

Even more so that, like what Topaz said earlier, Undying couldn't even beat LV 13 Geno Frisk/Chara. So already it's extremely hard to prove that Mettaton NEO would even be capable of going up against humans at that caliber.

We'd need more concrete evidence to justify this sort of thing, even if it warrants a "possibly" rating

 

[StrymULTRA]

Alright, I won't try to push further for 7-C NEO, given it seems generally rejected (given the whole "Creation of Mettaton > Human SOULs research" kinda caused doubts within me as well).

Well, I'll just wait more staff input for the rest of the points then.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

I'd like to add that I was thinking about making a content revision thread to remove the lightning speed from Undertale once this one is over.
I don't want to make two threads at once.

Is there any place where I can talk to the verse supporters to plan out the CRT?
A discord server of any kind?
I wouldn't like to drop a revision thread on their heads out of the blue!
that would be pretty bad and disrespectful!

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'd like to add that I was thinking about making a content revision thread to remove the lightning speed from Undertale once this one is over.
I don't want to make two threads at once.

Is there any place where I can talk to the verse supporters to plan out the CRT?
A discord server of any kind?
I wouldn't like to drop a revision thread on their heads out of the blue!
that would be pretty bad and disrespectful!

I don't know if UT has one but many verses have a general discussion thread here on the wiki.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I'd like to add that I was thinking about making a content revision thread to remove the lightning speed from Undertale once this one is over.

Dude... I already know where this is going and I already know the arguments.

Don't.

 

[StrymULTRA]

About the discords... No there's not one about UT.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Dude... I already know where this is going and I already know the arguments.

I strive for accuracy over personally satisfying ratings! Don't gatekeep "your" verses OP!

I would love Faster-than-light Undertale,
but I can't have that now can I?

I don't disagree with the premise of the argument made for magic mimicking elements
I disagree with the conclusion!

 

[StrymULTRA]

This is derailing anyways. You can make the CRT now tbf:

• A single verse shouldn't have more than 3 content revisions threads running simultaneously. If 3 are already running, one of them should be concluded before a new one is created.

 

[ShionAH]

I strive for accuracy over personally satisfying ratings! Don't gatekeep "your" verses OP!

I would love Faster-than-light Undertale,
but I can't have that now can I?

I don't disagree with the premise of the argument made for magic mimicking elements
I disagree with the conclusion!

I can dm you a discord with UT supporters if you want

 

[StrymULTRA]

7-C MTT NEO issa no

What about the other stuff though? CRT is dying lol.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

good, I hate comin' to these things

 

[Ped2018]

good, I hate comin' to these things

Noooooooooo

 

[StrymULTRA]

Kinda straightfoward lol.

Well I shall harass other staff.

 

[Roachman40]

good, I hate comin' to these things

its too late bambu, your an Undertale Janny now, its over

 

[Omegabronic]

Pretty much this. Instead of "you" the game uses Chara in 1st person, and Flowey recognizes them as Chara since the start, implying very heavily that from a high enough killing count, Chara takes control. After all it's a deal between Chara and the Player, with both getting power from the killings, and Chara gives up control if the Player does not collaborate anymore for the Genocide.

Flowey also thought that frisk was chara ij the pacifist run, and only saw otherwise after the very end when frisk reached to his soul and made him remember memories from his friendship with chara, this is not a very strong point to say that chara is in full control of frisk, since if we end the genocide run we can go back to neutral with no problem

 

[StrymULTRA]

Flowey also thought that frisk was chara ij the pacifist run, and only saw otherwise after the very end when frisk reached to his soul and made him remember memories from his friendship with chara, this is not a very strong point to say that chara is in full control of frisk, since if we end the genocide run we can go back to neutral with no problem

The rest says otherwise buddy. Frisk's true name is Chara?

 

[Omegabronic]

Wait, read the other replies, forget what i said for now, will save it for another thread

 

[Omegabronic]

The rest says otherwise buddy. Frisk's true name is Chara?

Was talking that this point is not really strong or relevant at all as proof, was not arguing against the "chara possesses frisk" stuff, like i said, i plan on doing a thread covering that, so i shall not argue here, it would be derail, since it would involve other stuff in the profiles