- 12,436
- 4,560
Basically, as discussed between me and @Roachman40, we realized that we've forgot to apply some stuff around for the verse, so I guess it's time to fix it.
Updating info for DT users
DT users (aka Frisk, Chara and Asriel) shouldn't have just Low 2-C range for their SAVE and LOAD, but 2-C instead. Reason is because, as already explained in the cosmology blog, LOADs do not simply reset the same timeline, but stop the current one and generate a new timeline which starts from where it was used the SAVE Point, which is pretty clear 2-C range considering that LOADs extend to other timelines, as also shown from the fact that even in the new timeline it's possible to have access to the SAVE Point left in the previous one.
Also, an updated justification about the rule about "more DT = control over the timeline":
"The existence of someone with a higher amount of Determination (as it exists in Undertale) would result in the inability of beings with lesser amounts of it from using their power to SAVE and LOAD, due to the control over the timeline being inherited to only the one with the highest amount of Determination."
(I'll add references when it'll be written be on the profiles).
Edit: Why does Flowey have monster weakness in his section lol. He's not a monster.
Flowey fixes
There's indeed a some stuff that is just wrong about this fella.
Danmaku removal
Every key that isn't the Photoshop Flowey and God of Hyperdeath shouldn't have any kind of Danmaku to begin with.
The Kid Asriel who didn't die yet is literally featless and has no showing at all besides some cutscenes and dialogues. Saying he can use the same patterns of his parents and his God self is just silly, thus a specification that from his Physiology he doesn't get Danmaku should do. Same with the one that absorbed Chara's SOUL, we don't know nothing about how his attacks are.
Base Flowey's only reasoning for his Danmaku is having "undodgeable attacks", which is basically this and this. However, this is not Danmaku at all, as Danmaku is instead spamming many bullets at once in order to overwhelm the opponent, this instead is simply just making up bullets in a circle, which isn't exactly the same.
Type 7 Immortality removal
Flowey is literally soulless, thus he'd be essentially erased from existence after dying, meaning he shouldn't have it.
Supernatural Willpower addition
Flowey should have it, as despite being lower than Frisk's, he was still able to use SAVE and LOAD over and over before the arrival of the human child, thus having a Determination that's above Undyne's. Obviously the "Photoshop Flowey" and "God of Hyperdeath" keys should have a greater version of this power, same with Frisk's "Peak Determination" key, Chara and Player.
Photoshop Flowey Tiering
I believe that Flowey should simply become "Unknown, at least Low 7-C" tier-wise, as while the growth that the SOULs give is indeed exponential, I've changed my mind on how he should be rated, and that a minimum tier to underline his absolute minimum power should be aviable, given this is still an indexing wiki after all. If we do it with Kamijou Touma or the Chitauri Scepter, making Flowey an exception here seems odd IMO.
Low 7-C comes from simply making 329.95 Tons x 6 = 1979.7 Tons, btw.
Removing Longevity from the Human SOULs
I don't remotely believe that Longevity makes any sense given they're just... dead, they don't have a lifespan anymore.
Some supportive evidence is that while they're indeed dead, we know that Human SOULs, unlike Monsters', actually last after death, and we know that Alphys has created Flowey after that Asgore got the 6 SOULs (so yeah, Undertale Yellow did lie to y'all lol), and that the 6 Humans that fell before Frisk came in the Underground all after Chara's death and during Toriel's self-isolation in the ruins, that lasted likely 100 years, and they're still in Asgore's castle since.
What would be the replacement? Obviously Type 1 and 7 Immortality even when not getting control over the timeline, that's literally what we give in these cases.
Updating info for DT users
DT users (aka Frisk, Chara and Asriel) shouldn't have just Low 2-C range for their SAVE and LOAD, but 2-C instead. Reason is because, as already explained in the cosmology blog, LOADs do not simply reset the same timeline, but stop the current one and generate a new timeline which starts from where it was used the SAVE Point, which is pretty clear 2-C range considering that LOADs extend to other timelines, as also shown from the fact that even in the new timeline it's possible to have access to the SAVE Point left in the previous one.
Also, an updated justification about the rule about "more DT = control over the timeline":
"The existence of someone with a higher amount of Determination (as it exists in Undertale) would result in the inability of beings with lesser amounts of it from using their power to SAVE and LOAD, due to the control over the timeline being inherited to only the one with the highest amount of Determination."
(I'll add references when it'll be written be on the profiles).
Edit: Why does Flowey have monster weakness in his section lol. He's not a monster.
Flowey fixes
There's indeed a some stuff that is just wrong about this fella.
Danmaku removal
Every key that isn't the Photoshop Flowey and God of Hyperdeath shouldn't have any kind of Danmaku to begin with.
The Kid Asriel who didn't die yet is literally featless and has no showing at all besides some cutscenes and dialogues. Saying he can use the same patterns of his parents and his God self is just silly, thus a specification that from his Physiology he doesn't get Danmaku should do. Same with the one that absorbed Chara's SOUL, we don't know nothing about how his attacks are.
Base Flowey's only reasoning for his Danmaku is having "undodgeable attacks", which is basically this and this. However, this is not Danmaku at all, as Danmaku is instead spamming many bullets at once in order to overwhelm the opponent, this instead is simply just making up bullets in a circle, which isn't exactly the same.
Type 7 Immortality removal
Flowey is literally soulless, thus he'd be essentially erased from existence after dying, meaning he shouldn't have it.
Supernatural Willpower addition
Flowey should have it, as despite being lower than Frisk's, he was still able to use SAVE and LOAD over and over before the arrival of the human child, thus having a Determination that's above Undyne's. Obviously the "Photoshop Flowey" and "God of Hyperdeath" keys should have a greater version of this power, same with Frisk's "Peak Determination" key, Chara and Player.
Photoshop Flowey Tiering
I believe that Flowey should simply become "Unknown, at least Low 7-C" tier-wise, as while the growth that the SOULs give is indeed exponential, I've changed my mind on how he should be rated, and that a minimum tier to underline his absolute minimum power should be aviable, given this is still an indexing wiki after all. If we do it with Kamijou Touma or the Chitauri Scepter, making Flowey an exception here seems odd IMO.
Low 7-C comes from simply making 329.95 Tons x 6 = 1979.7 Tons, btw.
Removing Longevity from the Human SOULs
I don't remotely believe that Longevity makes any sense given they're just... dead, they don't have a lifespan anymore.
Some supportive evidence is that while they're indeed dead, we know that Human SOULs, unlike Monsters', actually last after death, and we know that Alphys has created Flowey after that Asgore got the 6 SOULs (so yeah, Undertale Yellow did lie to y'all lol), and that the 6 Humans that fell before Frisk came in the Underground all after Chara's death and during Toriel's self-isolation in the ruins, that lasted likely 100 years, and they're still in Asgore's castle since.
What would be the replacement? Obviously Type 1 and 7 Immortality even when not getting control over the timeline, that's literally what we give in these cases.
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