Strongest 5D Characters on the Wiki

[TheGodOfICE777]

Type 2 information deletion cannot affect Kratos at this level; in order to truly affect him, you would need to attack him with a concept superior to the concept of hope. The concept of hope is immune to the effects of all other type 1 concepts and has 10 layers for attack, rendering Kratos untouchable and non-interactive. (And at this level, type 2 info manipulation operates at the type 1 cm level.)

That's why there is not much difference between type 1 cm and type 2 info because they work equally. This is already stated on the page

I’m pretty sure type 2 and concept type 1 aren’t comparable like how being able to regen from conceptual erasure =/= being able to regenerate from informational erasure so you’d need feats

 

[Georredannea15]

I’m pretty sure type 2 and concept type 1 aren’t comparable like how being able to regen from conceptual erasure =/= being able to regenerate from informational erasure so you’d need feats

And just like in the case of Arale, where Kratos can lose because he doesn't resist a specific ability, he doesn't resist info 2.

Especially when the pages also do not create a hierarchy between plot hax, concept 1, information 2. That's why Planck didn't want to discuss it.

Look at the page, type 2 info works mainly on the law or conceptual level, some abilities even work almost the same as each other


For example
law manip, causality manip and logic manip

On the other side, cm 1/2 and info type 2

So yes. In DBH type 2 info manip works at cm type 1 level, there is no problem with it and you can resist it with resistance to cm type 1

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Look at the page, type 2 info works mainly on the law or conceptual level, some abilities even work almost the same as each other

Nowhere on the page does it say this.

For example
law manip, causality manip and logic manip

On the other side, cm 1/2 and info type 2

So yes. In DBH type 2 info manip works at cm type 1 level, there is no problem with it and you can resist it with resistance to cm type 1

No, you cannot resist info 2 by resisting cm hax.

Not even manipulation of causality and manipulation of law. Just because you resist one you cannot resist another, they are different things.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Look at the page, type 2 info works mainly on the law or conceptual level, some abilities even work almost the same as each other


For example
law manip, causality manip and logic manip

On the other side, cm 1/2 and info type 2

So yes. In DBH type 2 info manip works at cm type 1 level, there is no problem with it and you can resist it with resistance to cm type 1

That’s based on case to case sometimes Causality Manip and Fate Manip can be linked in one feat. Resisting Law Manip by default doesn’t allow you to resist causality manip, vice versa, and resisting logic manip by default doesn’t allow you to resist law manip. I don’t know who told you that, but that’s not how it works.

You can’t resist Information Manip type 2 by only resisting Conceptual manipulation. You could literally ask any staff or check the regen page regenerating from concept type 1 doesn’t allow you to regen from information type 2. These things require feats you can’t scale like this.

 

[Georredannea15]

No, you cannot resist info 2 by resisting info hax.

Not even manipulation of causality and manipulation of law. Just because you resist one you cannot resist another, they are different things.

I mean type 1 cm, not type 1 info hax

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I mean type 1 cm, not type 1 info hax

I fixed it.

 

[Georredannea15]

That’s based on case to case sometimes Causality Manip and Fate Manip can be linked in one feat. Resisting Law Manip by default doesn’t allow you to resist causality manip, vice versa, and resisting logic manip by default doesn’t allow you to resist law manip. I don’t know who told you that, but that’s not how it works.

You can’t resist Information Manip type 2 by only resisting Conceptual manipulation. You could literally ask any staff or check the regen page regenerating from concept type 1 doesn’t allow you to regen from information type 2. These things require feats you can’t scale like this.

I said this because I saw it in different vs threads... And this is basically logical, haxs at this level are similar to each other and even work almost the same.

Fundamental: These characters can manipulate information, which serves as fundamental building block of reality. This can allow characters to rewrite the world to their whims, often by programming it much like they would a virtual reality. These manipulation can come on many levels. For some it might just be the mechanism behind mundane magical abilities, while others can rewrite information to change reality, causality or the laws of nature

And if this happens at the conceptual level, a character who can resist concepts can also resist this.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

I said this because I saw it in different vs threads... And this is basically logical, haxs at this level are similar to each other and even work almost the same.

Being similar does not offer resistance to something different.

Fear manipulation and empathy are similar, resisting one does not give you resistance to the other.

The same thing for space and gravity manipulation, resisting one doesn't make you resist the other.

Nowhere on any page does it say that resisting cm makes you resist info or anything like that.

 

[Georredannea15]

Being similar does not offer resistance to something different.

Fear manipulation and empathy are similar, resisting one does not give you resistance to the other.

The same thing for space and gravity manipulation, resisting one doesn't make you resist the other.

Nowhere on any page does it say that resisting cm makes you resist info or anything like that.

No, that's not the basis for it.

The page states that you can manipulate the laws(or causalities) by manipulating information.

If you are manipulating laws with type 2 information manipulation, this information manipulation will not affect someone who has law manip resistance because what this type 2 info does is manipulate laws, those who resist laws also will not be affected by this type 2 info. The same thing can be considered for concepts(type 1 or type 2.) So yes, you can resist.

This is basically how it works

 

[Robo432343]

bruh how do i get glass to comment here
i made an arale vs ragna thread and he closed it probably coz he thought i was using ragna's last key which isnt useable

 

[Georredannea15]

bruh how do i get glass to comment here
i made an arale vs ragna thread and he closed it probably coz he thought i was using ragna's last key which isnt useable

I think Kratos and the DB series deserve the 2nd place, since Arale and Kratos were left incon.

 

[Robo432343]

I think Kratos and the DB series deserve the 2nd place, since Arale and Kratos were left incon.

no
i made a kratos vs vampire hunter d thread and it kept getting closed coz d stomps

 

[Huesito88]

no
i made a kratos vs vampire hunter d thread and it kept getting closed coz d stomps

That was when he had plot hax which he doesn't anymore I believe.

 

[Robo432343]

That was when he had plot hax which he doesn't anymore I believe.

i told people in a thread that his plot hax cant be used anymore and it still got closed

 

[Quantu]

Off topic, but I wonder who wins between Universe Tree Goku and Arale.

Probably Arale due to plot, but she doesn't resist some things from Goku apparently?

 

[Phsccarvalho]

The page states that you can manipulate the law by manipulating information.

Why is it one of her applications?

You can manipulate a ton of things with for example Reality Warping.

let's say there's x guy who uses Reality Warping to manipulate laws. Someone who has resistance to the law will not have resistance to Reality Warping.

Conceptual power itself has a million applications. How to manipulate the concept of death to kill someone, you are basically saying that if someone resists the manipulation of death, they would resist the conceptual power.

There is a big difference between someone who simply manipulates the law, and someone who manipulates the law via info 2.

In the same way that there is a difference between someone who manipulates death and someone who manipulates death via conceptual manipulation.

 

[Georredannea15]

Why is it one of her applications?

You can manipulate a ton of things with for example Reality Warping.

let's say there's x guy who uses Reality Warping to manipulate laws. Someone who has resistance to the law will not have resistance to Reality Warping.

Conceptual power itself has a million applications. How to manipulate the concept of death to kill someone, you are basically saying that if someone resists the manipulation of death, they would resist the conceptual power.

There is a big difference between someone who simply manipulates the law, and someone who manipulates the law via info 2.

In the same way that there is a difference between someone who manipulates death and someone who manipulates death via conceptual manipulation.

Man, you have misunderstood something... Reality warping is not hax alone, it depends on its type.

If someone is committing RW by manipulating the laws, a character who can resist the laws can resist that RW.

The result is important here, not how you do it.

For example, if someone manipulating causalities or concepts with type 2 information, and there is already a character that is not affected by causalities or concepts, that character will not be affected by this type 2 info and manipulating of these.

I don't need to go back and forth on this, but this is basically the situation.

 

[Everything12]

bruh how do i get glass to comment here
i made an arale vs ragna thread and he closed it probably coz he thought i was using ragna's last key which isnt useable

Ragna only has one Low 1-C key, the one that can't be used.

 

[Georredannea15]

no
i made a kratos vs vampire hunter d thread and it kept getting closed coz d stomps

Man, the relationship between these verses is different lmao.

For example, Arale can win against Wampire Hunter D, while D can win against Kratos, but Kratos has an incon with Arale.

So basically the DB verse and the PoH should be in equal order in this case.

Or D and Kratos should meet again

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Man, you have misunderstood something... Reality warping is not hax alone, it depends on its type.

If someone is committing RW by manipulating the laws, a character who can resist the laws can resist that RW.

The result is important here, not how you do it.

For example, if someone manipulating causalities or concepts with type 2 information, and there is already a character that is not affected by causalities or concepts, that character will not be affected by this type 2 info and manipulating of these.

I don't need to go back and forth on this, but this is basically the situation.

And you are also basically saying that someone who resists death manipulation can resist death manipulation done through conceptual manipulation.

And that's not how it works.

 

[Georredannea15]

And you are also basically saying that someone who resists death manipulation can resist death manipulation done through conceptual manipulation.

And that's not how it works.

This is where the situation is different because this death manipulation now works at the "conceptual level" and is superior to a normal death manipulation.

However, if it is known that this character can resist 3-layered type 1 concept and the concept of death is a baseline type 1 concept, the character with 3-layered cm 1 resistance can also resist this conceptual death manipulation.(These statutions are different)

Here "we are not comparing type 2 info at the conceptual level with normal type 2 info, here we are comparing type 1 concepts with type 2 info at the type 1 conceptual level, and it basically depends on which concept is stronger."

 

[Phsccarvalho]

This is where the situation is different because this death manipulation now works at the "conceptual level" and is superior to a normal death manipulation.

In the same way that manipulation of law or anything that was done at info 2 would now be at level info 2, in the same way as conceptual manipulation.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I said this because I saw it in different vs threads... And this is basically logical, haxs at this level are similar to each other and even work almost the same.


And if this happens at the conceptual level, a character who can resist concepts can also resist this.

Whoever told you that lied we do not do things like that on the site. I assume you’re confusing feats that can fall under the use of 2 different haxes, for example if use conceptual existence erasure, then the person would have to resist both cm and ee or have a feat like that. You can’t just assume Information Manip is resisted by simply CM type 1 alone. An example is how High Godly Regen works on the site.

 

[Georredannea15]

In the same way that manipulation of law or anything that was done at info 2 would now be at level info 2, in the same way as conceptual manipulation.

It depends on what level the verse makes it

Whoever told you that lied we do not do things like that on the site. I assume you’re confusing feats that can fall under the use of 2 different haxes, for example if use conceptual existence erasure, then the person would have to resist both cm and ee or have a feat like that. You can’t just assume Information Manip is resisted by simply CM type 1 alone. An example is how High Godly Regen works on the site.

It... it doesn't really work that way, bruhhh...

Conceptual EE type 1 basically means you destroy existence on a type 1 conceptual level(or with type 1 cm), a normal EE cannot resist this, but any character that resists type 1 cm can also resist it. Because the EE that this character does is basically done at the type 1 conceptual level, or with type 1 concepts, a character that can resist type 1 concepts can also resist this.

This just means that someone who lacks the concept of death is impervious not only to death, also to the concept itself. What is important is at what level this is shown in the verse. If type 2 info works at the type 1 conceptual level in the verse, this actually makes it like a typical cm 1

 

[Ss3micah]

Sigh
Let me pin this thread to resolve this debate
One moment

 

[Ss3micah]

High-Godly Regeneration Reassessment

Continued from Here Alright so Short Rundown.... I did a Q&A months ago, Inquiring about how High Godly Regeneration (HGR) works. According to the HGR section of the Regeneration page, HGR is the ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more...

vsbattles.com

HGR Issue & Inquiry

Yeah I dont know if anyone has noticed before but I'm gonna point out the seemingly Invisible Elephant in the Regeneration Room According to the HGR section of the Regeneration page, HGR is the ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more...

vsbattles.com

As detailed, evaluated and then concluded in these threads when discussing about HGR.

Plot, Info and Concept Hax are EQUIVALENT but ultimately DIFFERENT fundamental haxs

Being able to resist ONE in no way means you can resist the other on any level without the required feats.
If someone can Regen from being erased at the conceptual level… they still can’t come back from info or plot erasure and vice Versa because ultimate those are fundamentally different things

In the same way.. no amount of concept resistance will grant you resistance to info and plot Hax WORSE if those are powers not even established in the respective verse and Vice Versa for plot and Info Hax as well

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I have moved this to fun and games now, since it's become a more general list

 

[Georredannea15]

High-Godly Regeneration Reassessment

Continued from Here Alright so Short Rundown.... I did a Q&A months ago, Inquiring about how High Godly Regeneration (HGR) works. According to the HGR section of the Regeneration page, HGR is the ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more...

vsbattles.com

HGR Issue & Inquiry

Yeah I dont know if anyone has noticed before but I'm gonna point out the seemingly Invisible Elephant in the Regeneration Room According to the HGR section of the Regeneration page, HGR is the ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more...

vsbattles.com

As detailed, evaluated and then concluded in these threads when discussing about HGR.

Plot, Info and Concept Hax are EQUIVALENT but ultimately DIFFERENT fundamental haxs

Being able to resist ONE in no way means you can resist the other on any level without the required feats.
If someone can Regen from being erased at the conceptual level… they still can’t come back from info or plot erasure and vice Versa because ultimate those are fundamentally different things

In the same way.. no amount of concept resistance will grant you resistance to info and plot Hax WORSE if those are powers not even established in the respective verse and Vice Versa for plot and Info Hax as well

This... Only applies to HGR, I'm basically talking about resistance here. Both are different in this case, because here it is important which hax works at which level and at which layer...(basically what is needed for resistance)

 

[Phsccarvalho]

This... Only applies to HGR, I'm basically talking about resistance here. Both are different in this case, because here it is important which hax works at which level and at which layer...(basically what is needed for resistance)

HGR basically shows us how it works.

You have nothing to support your claims that it works this way other than "I heard someone talking about a Matche"

You say "it only applies to HGR" but you don't show this being said by a mod or page.

 

[Everything12]

This... Only applies to HGR, I'm basically talking about resistance here. Both are different in this case, because here it is important which hax works at which level and at which layer...(basically what is needed for resistance)

The same logic applies. Resistance to Infomration Manipulation isn't going to protect you from Concept Manipulation.

Though resistance to Concept Manipulation alone will protect you from Concept Manipulation derived Existence Erasure.

 

[Ss3micah]

This... Only applies to HGR, I'm basically talking about resistance here. Both are different in this case, because here it is important which hax works at which level and at which layer...

We discussed how the Hax works in those CTR as well
Not just the Regen
But I can easily make another Q and A when I get home just to easily prove the point we all already know well by now

I can’t think of a single staff here who would swallow the argument that Concept Type 1 resistance can allow you to resist Info 2 Hax especially when the Concept 1 Hax has no explicit feats of doing so.

Both Concept and Info Hax has similarities when it comes to fundamentality and mechanics BUT THEY ARE COMPLETELY different Hax that cannot be equated

 

[Ss3micah]

The same logic applies. Resistance to Infomration Manipulation isn't going to protect you from Concept Manipulation.

Though resistance to Concept Manipulation alone will protect you from Concept Manipulation derived Existence Erasure.

And the reverse is true as well
Concept resistance doesn’t protect you from Information Hax

 

[Georredannea15]

The same logic applies. Resistance to Infomration Manipulation isn't going to protect you from Concept Manipulation.

What I mean is that if there is a type 2 info hax that can affect concepts(so, a conceptual level info type 2) and you can resist those concepts it's affect, you can also resist type 2 info.
So... it's just like someone resisting the concept of death is resisting not only death manipulation, also the concept itself.

If this hax affects the concepts and I have resistance to these concepts that it affects, then I can resist it.

Though resistance to Concept Manipulation alone will protect you from Concept Manipulation derived Existence Erasure.

Yes, I also said this above.

 

[Ss3micah]

What I mean is that if there is a type 2 info hax that can affect concepts(so, a conceptual level info type 2) and you can resist those concepts it's affect, you can also resist type 2 info.
So... it's just like someone resisting the concept of death is resisting not only death manipulation, also the concept itself.

If this hax affects the concepts and I have resistance to these concepts that it affects, then I can resist it.

Yes, I also said this above.

I mean sure I suppose
Thou if we are taking about Kratos

His Concept Resistance shielding him from Information Hax would only be applicable if there is some feat or context that CM Hax in GoW can affect abstract fundamental information (info 2) which to my knowledge I know not being the case

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

It depends on what level the verse makes it

It... it doesn't really work that way, bruhhh...

Conceptual EE type 1 basically means you destroy existence on a type 1 conceptual level(or with type 1 cm), a normal EE cannot resist this, but any character that resists type 1 cm can also resist it. Because the EE that this character does is basically done at the type 1 conceptual level, or with type 1 concepts, a character that can resist type 1 concepts can also resist this.

This just means that someone who lacks the concept of death is impervious not only to death, also to the concept itself. What is important is at what level this is shown in the verse. If type 2 info works at the type 1 conceptual level in the verse, this actually makes it like a typical cm 1

I know resisting CM1 doesn’t mean you resist EE, but if you resist CM1 EE you resist both things, but that doesn’t really matter for this discussion I was just giving an example.

Well lacking something makes you immune to it, so unless the character in question is stated to lack information type 2 then that example doesn’t make much sense. If Info manip type 2 and CM type 1 are interconnected in a verse then sure, but GoW doesn’t have any information manip type 2 that I’m aware of atleast.

CM and Info Manip are considered equal so you can’t resist either without feats and resisting either doesn’t make you resist the other.

 

[Georredannea15]

I mean sure I suppose
Thou if we are taking about Kratos

His Concept Resistance shielding him from Information Hax would only be applicable if there is some feat or context that CM Hax in GoW can affect abstract fundamental information (info 2) which to my knowledge I know not being the case

I say it won't matter much because he has a stronger concept than the concepts affected by type 2 info.

But I don't think that would be a big deal either, because basically like conceptual EE, they both(conceptual EE and Type 2 info) affect concepts, and resisting conceptsmeans you're also resisting these. I think it's a simple thing.

I already quoted from the page so I don't know if I need to say more.

I know resisting CM1 doesn’t mean you resist EE, but if you resist CM1 EE you resist both things, but that doesn’t really matter for this discussion I was just giving an example.

Well lacking something makes you immune to it, so unless the character in question is stated to lack information type 2 then that example doesn’t make much sense. If Info manip type 2 and CM type 1 are interconnected in a verse then sure, but GoW doesn’t have any information manip type 2 that I’m aware of atleast.

CM and Info Manip are considered equal so you can’t resist either without feats and resisting either doesn’t make you resist the other.

But the example you gave is basically similar to the situation here.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I say it won't matter much because he has a stronger concept than the concepts affected by type 2 info.

But I don't think that would be a big deal either, because basically like conceptual EE, they both(conceptual EE and Type 2 info) affect concepts, and resisting conceptsmeans you're also resisting these. I think it's a simple thing.

I already quoted from the page so I don't know if I need to say more.

But the example you gave is basically similar to the situation here.

Does Kratos have information manipulation type 2? If so then sure the situation is comparable, but you can’t scale resisting conceptual manipulation to information manipulation because they’re incomparable. It’s like comparing resistance to law manip to resistance to fate manip to one doesn’t mean you resist the other.

 

[Ss3micah]

I say it won't matter much because he has a stronger concept than the concepts affected by type 2 info.

That’s a no go bro
Having a stronger or more layered concept matters zero if all that concept is applicable to is conceptual resistance.

Unless there is some context of that concept resisting / affecting Information Hax by nature then a stronger conceptual resistance only makes that concept more resistant to conceptual Hax but gets still gets easily affected by any other plot or information Hax

But I don't think that would be a big deal either, because basically like conceptual EE, they both(conceptual EE and Type 2 info) affect concepts, and resisting conceptsmeans you're also resisting these. I think it's a simple thing.

In not sure who you got this from but concept Hax affects concepts and information Hax affects information.

THATS THE DEFAULT
Any feat or applicable of concepts affecting information or information affecting concepts it’s NOT a default but rather a verse or character specific feat not the general standard

Any staff member on the wiki will back up what I’m saying

 

[Vietthai96]

The reason i let Arale incon Kratos because i don't bother debating and this site very nature is when someone get the answer they don't like or don't want to hear and when it didn't benefit the verse or character they support, they went to make CRT to either downgrade the opposition or upgrade what they support. So DBH, Arale get stomped or stomp other for all i care, i don't want to involve in any of these shit

@Georredannea15 and let me tell you one last time, quote @DontTalkDT , Info 2 and Concept are incomparable, period

 

[Robo432343]

The reason i let Arale incon Kratos because i don't bother debating and this site very nature is when someone get the answer they don't like or don't want to hear and when it didn't benefit the verse or character they support, they went to make CRT to either downgrade the opposition or upgrade what they support. So DBH, Arale get stomped or stomp other for all i care, i don't want to involve in any of these shit

@Georredannea15 and let me tell you one last time, quote @DontTalkDT , Info 2 and Concept are incomparable, period

do you know who the strongest dragon ball (game) character is aside from arale?