Strongest 5D Characters on the Wiki

[Everything12]

This... Only applies to HGR, I'm basically talking about resistance here. Both are different in this case, because here it is important which hax works at which level and at which layer...(basically what is needed for resistance)

The same logic applies. Resistance to Infomration Manipulation isn't going to protect you from Concept Manipulation.

Though resistance to Concept Manipulation alone will protect you from Concept Manipulation derived Existence Erasure.

 

[Ss3micah]

This... Only applies to HGR, I'm basically talking about resistance here. Both are different in this case, because here it is important which hax works at which level and at which layer...

We discussed how the Hax works in those CTR as well
Not just the Regen
But I can easily make another Q and A when I get home just to easily prove the point we all already know well by now

I can’t think of a single staff here who would swallow the argument that Concept Type 1 resistance can allow you to resist Info 2 Hax especially when the Concept 1 Hax has no explicit feats of doing so.

Both Concept and Info Hax has similarities when it comes to fundamentality and mechanics BUT THEY ARE COMPLETELY different Hax that cannot be equated

 

[Ss3micah]

The same logic applies. Resistance to Infomration Manipulation isn't going to protect you from Concept Manipulation.

Though resistance to Concept Manipulation alone will protect you from Concept Manipulation derived Existence Erasure.

And the reverse is true as well
Concept resistance doesn’t protect you from Information Hax

 

[Georredannea15]

The same logic applies. Resistance to Infomration Manipulation isn't going to protect you from Concept Manipulation.

What I mean is that if there is a type 2 info hax that can affect concepts(so, a conceptual level info type 2) and you can resist those concepts it's affect, you can also resist type 2 info.
So... it's just like someone resisting the concept of death is resisting not only death manipulation, also the concept itself.

If this hax affects the concepts and I have resistance to these concepts that it affects, then I can resist it.

Though resistance to Concept Manipulation alone will protect you from Concept Manipulation derived Existence Erasure.

Yes, I also said this above.

 

[Ss3micah]

What I mean is that if there is a type 2 info hax that can affect concepts(so, a conceptual level info type 2) and you can resist those concepts it's affect, you can also resist type 2 info.
So... it's just like someone resisting the concept of death is resisting not only death manipulation, also the concept itself.

If this hax affects the concepts and I have resistance to these concepts that it affects, then I can resist it.

Yes, I also said this above.

I mean sure I suppose
Thou if we are taking about Kratos

His Concept Resistance shielding him from Information Hax would only be applicable if there is some feat or context that CM Hax in GoW can affect abstract fundamental information (info 2) which to my knowledge I know not being the case

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

It depends on what level the verse makes it

It... it doesn't really work that way, bruhhh...

Conceptual EE type 1 basically means you destroy existence on a type 1 conceptual level(or with type 1 cm), a normal EE cannot resist this, but any character that resists type 1 cm can also resist it. Because the EE that this character does is basically done at the type 1 conceptual level, or with type 1 concepts, a character that can resist type 1 concepts can also resist this.

This just means that someone who lacks the concept of death is impervious not only to death, also to the concept itself. What is important is at what level this is shown in the verse. If type 2 info works at the type 1 conceptual level in the verse, this actually makes it like a typical cm 1

I know resisting CM1 doesn’t mean you resist EE, but if you resist CM1 EE you resist both things, but that doesn’t really matter for this discussion I was just giving an example.

Well lacking something makes you immune to it, so unless the character in question is stated to lack information type 2 then that example doesn’t make much sense. If Info manip type 2 and CM type 1 are interconnected in a verse then sure, but GoW doesn’t have any information manip type 2 that I’m aware of atleast.

CM and Info Manip are considered equal so you can’t resist either without feats and resisting either doesn’t make you resist the other.

 

[Georredannea15]

I mean sure I suppose
Thou if we are taking about Kratos

His Concept Resistance shielding him from Information Hax would only be applicable if there is some feat or context that CM Hax in GoW can affect abstract fundamental information (info 2) which to my knowledge I know not being the case

I say it won't matter much because he has a stronger concept than the concepts affected by type 2 info.

But I don't think that would be a big deal either, because basically like conceptual EE, they both(conceptual EE and Type 2 info) affect concepts, and resisting conceptsmeans you're also resisting these. I think it's a simple thing.

I already quoted from the page so I don't know if I need to say more.

I know resisting CM1 doesn’t mean you resist EE, but if you resist CM1 EE you resist both things, but that doesn’t really matter for this discussion I was just giving an example.

Well lacking something makes you immune to it, so unless the character in question is stated to lack information type 2 then that example doesn’t make much sense. If Info manip type 2 and CM type 1 are interconnected in a verse then sure, but GoW doesn’t have any information manip type 2 that I’m aware of atleast.

CM and Info Manip are considered equal so you can’t resist either without feats and resisting either doesn’t make you resist the other.

But the example you gave is basically similar to the situation here.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I say it won't matter much because he has a stronger concept than the concepts affected by type 2 info.

But I don't think that would be a big deal either, because basically like conceptual EE, they both(conceptual EE and Type 2 info) affect concepts, and resisting conceptsmeans you're also resisting these. I think it's a simple thing.

I already quoted from the page so I don't know if I need to say more.

But the example you gave is basically similar to the situation here.

Does Kratos have information manipulation type 2? If so then sure the situation is comparable, but you can’t scale resisting conceptual manipulation to information manipulation because they’re incomparable. It’s like comparing resistance to law manip to resistance to fate manip to one doesn’t mean you resist the other.

 

[Ss3micah]

I say it won't matter much because he has a stronger concept than the concepts affected by type 2 info.

That’s a no go bro
Having a stronger or more layered concept matters zero if all that concept is applicable to is conceptual resistance.

Unless there is some context of that concept resisting / affecting Information Hax by nature then a stronger conceptual resistance only makes that concept more resistant to conceptual Hax but gets still gets easily affected by any other plot or information Hax

But I don't think that would be a big deal either, because basically like conceptual EE, they both(conceptual EE and Type 2 info) affect concepts, and resisting conceptsmeans you're also resisting these. I think it's a simple thing.

In not sure who you got this from but concept Hax affects concepts and information Hax affects information.

THATS THE DEFAULT
Any feat or applicable of concepts affecting information or information affecting concepts it’s NOT a default but rather a verse or character specific feat not the general standard

Any staff member on the wiki will back up what I’m saying

 

[Vietthai96]

The reason i let Arale incon Kratos because i don't bother debating and this site very nature is when someone get the answer they don't like or don't want to hear and when it didn't benefit the verse or character they support, they went to make CRT to either downgrade the opposition or upgrade what they support. So DBH, Arale get stomped or stomp other for all i care, i don't want to involve in any of these shit

@Georredannea15 and let me tell you one last time, quote @DontTalkDT , Info 2 and Concept are incomparable, period

 

[Vietthai96]

do you know who the strongest dragon ball (game) character is aside from arale?

Most DBH god tier character, Shin Budokai Janemba but he right now do not have a profile on this site, it was deleted and i still do not have time to remake it

 

[Vietthai96]

do you know who the strongest dragon ball (game) character is aside from arale?

Also, no more match, you are terrible at making it

 

[Ikelaggan]

bro u thought i was using end of series ragna when i made the ragna vs arale vs thread

im stupid but im not that stupid bro

You didn't exactly specify which version of ragna and just threw in both profiles even though his low 1-C stuff that's not obviously Smurf locked or True Azure (Which has a "noncombat applicable" note on it) is literally him dying and reality getting Thanos snapped out of existence.

 

[Vietthai96]

i dont get why people would think im using true blazblue key..it literally says in the notes section that it cant be used in vs matches
and then the thread got closed before i could even say anything ffs

Because you made no distinction when making match, the format is terrible. And when you making match without any specific condition, the match will be assumed to follow SBA which using strongest version of involving combatants

 

[Robo432343]

Because you made no distinction when making match, the format is terrible. And when you making match without any specific condition, the match will be assumed to follow SBA which using strongest version of involving combatants

bro SBA ragna is literally black beast ragna because true blazblue cant be used in vs matches ffs

 

[Vietthai96]

bro SBA ragna is literally black beast ragna because true blazblue cant be used in vs matches ffs

SBA will automatically assume the strongest version, which is True Azure key, also that version is currently pending for revision iirc. I mind you, match betweeb both verse can't work, i know DBH and i know Blazblue, BB have insane amount of layer and passive, there are a reason no BB match now, also their Resistance Negation hax will just neg everything

 

[Vietthai96]

would dbh characters stomp bb characters if speed was unequalized tho?

eh, speed unequalized, DBH blitz most, except they can't do anything to god tier characters they has NEP2 which DBH can't interact

Anyway, no match

 

[Tanin_iver]

yes i know but u guys made me look stupid for thinking i didnt know about the note on ragnas page

Ok, do u want to reopen it with Black Beast Ragna?

 

[Delta333]

eh, speed unequalized, DBH blitz most, except they can't do anything to god tier characters they has NEP2 which DBH can't interact

Anyway, no match

You can start to explain as for why DBH blizt those without NEP 2, like how they’re gonna bypass HGR of multiple types, with layers of resistance to HGR negs and the verse even has a higher scaling chain for HGR negs, and how to bypass the resistance to PI of those who can increase its potency just by focusing on one being etc, plus The Embyro and the likes of Es or Nobody can already passively influence everything across time so going through time via immeasurable speed won’t help anyways.

 

[Anzu_Hanashiro]

SBA will automatically assume the strongest version, which is True Azure key, also that version is currently pending for revision iirc. I mind you, match betweeb both verse can't work, i know DBH and i know Blazblue, BB have insane amount of layer and passive, there are a reason no BB match now, also their Resistance Negation hax will just neg everything

wtf bro
SBA state
Character version: The strongest canon version of a character is used, that we have listed. The strongest version being defined as the one with the highest tier; if there are multiple versions with the same tier, then the most recent version.

The Black Beast version of Ragna will be used instead of True Azure because it is already used in combat, even in the SBA it is stated that only the canon version of the character can be used.

 

[Vietthai96]

You can start to explain as for why DBH blizt those without NEP 2, like how they’re gonna bypass HGR of multiple types, with layers of resistance to HGR negs and the verse even has a higher scaling chain for HGR negs, and how to bypass the resistance to PI of those who can increase its potency just by focusing on one being etc, plus The Embyro and the likes of Es or Nobody can already passively influence everything across time so going through time via immeasurable speed won’t help anyways.

not really remember many thing about BB, but like i said, DBH can't do anything against top tier and god tier

 

[Robo432343]

Ok, do u want to reopen it with Black Beast Ragna?

no

 

[Georredannea15]

That’s a no go bro
Having a stronger or more layered concept matters zero if all that concept is applicable to is conceptual resistance.

Unless there is some context of that concept resisting / affecting Information Hax by nature then a stronger conceptual resistance only makes that concept more resistant to conceptual Hax but gets still gets easily affected by any other plot or information Hax

In not sure who you got this from but concept Hax affects concepts and information Hax affects information.

THATS THE DEFAULT
Any feat or applicable of concepts affecting information or information affecting concepts it’s NOT a default but rather a verse or character specific feat not the general standard

Any staff member on the wiki will back up what I’m saying

I still quoted from the page, but I don't know why it still continues, and the other thing is what level type 2 info is depends in the verse... If it is at the conceptual level, it is equivalent to the concept, if it affects the laws, it is equivalent to the laws, this is quite simple actually.

Damn, I couldn't find DT's quote... @Vietthai96

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I still quoted from the page, but I don't know why it still continues, and the other thing is what level type 2 info is depends in the verse... If it is at the conceptual level, it is equivalent to the concept, if it affects the laws, it is equivalent to the laws, this is quite simple actually.

Damn, I couldn't find DT's quote... @Vietthai96

If type 2 info is shown to work on conceptual things then sure, but this is not a default thing. This also applies to concepts being able to affect laws. If there are feats for that then it can be both.

 

[Undylan]

So Blazeblue is above SDBH for now?

 

[Vietthai96]

So Blazeblue is above SDBH for now?

always have been

 

[Theglassman12]

@Vietthai96 correction, all of BlazBlue is getting revised in the future, not just true azure Ragna. But yeah still pretty dumb to make a Ragna thread when so many other characters exist for the franchise.

 

[Theglassman12]

The new standards doesn’t remotely touch transcending time and space beyond the multiverse so yes it still qualifies.

 

[Vietthai96]

@Vietthai96 correction, all of BlazBlue is getting revised in the future, not just true azure Ragna. But yeah still pretty dumb to make a Ragna thread when so many other characters exist for the franchise.

Let me guess, at this point only you do it, pretty tiring ngl

Also, Ragna is famous BB character, so people gonna make match with him each time they thinking about BB

 

[Theglassman12]

You lack discipline if you consider researching something you like as tiring.

 

[Vietthai96]

Well, gonna step up my game then

 

[Vietthai96]

If demigra for example was fighting someone who has nep2 wouldn’t he just EE the cosmology in lack of better options

this situation i'm not really remember, probably depend on situation, but most NEP can exist even after the cosmology is collapsed, so they are fine regardless after the destruction of their cosmology, still, there are some unique situation. Anyway, case-by-case

 

[Everything12]

If demigra for example was fighting someone who has nep2 wouldn’t he just EE the cosmology in lack of better options

Only being able to destroy the entire level of existence (5D) that both they and Demigra exist on would suffice, and such things would generally require a power of a higher dimension to pull off and Demigra also wouldn't survive destruction on such a fundamental level.

 

[Phsccarvalho]

Only being able to destroy the entire level of existence (5D) that both they and Demigra exist on would suffice, and such things would generally require a power of a higher dimension to pull off and Demigra also wouldn't survive destruction on such a fundamental level.

Hey man, I asked a question about tier 1 here, can you help?

I can't send it to your message board.

 

[DivineAura44]

Goku boundless

 

[DivineAura44]

i remember there was a scan of Demigra EE'ing the cosmology on a history level

Prolly fake tbh

 

[Everything12]

i remember there was a scan of Demigra EE'ing the cosmology on a history level

Not sufficient, history would be irrelevant to the level of destruction I'm talking about. It would be the complete and absolute destruction of the fifth dimension on every level you can conceive of, something that only really 6D or higher beings would be capable of.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

You lack discipline if you consider researching something you like as tiring.

I mean it is. Thought the best thing if you start liking something is to start categorizing feats as you are reading.

 

[DivineAura44]

I mean it is. Thought the best thing if you start liking something is to start categorizing feats as you are reading.

NGL, that's goon mentality.
"The fights in this show are pretty good right Nathan?"
"Did you just catch that Zack? That was a small building level feat "

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

NGL, that's goon mentality.
"The fights in this show are pretty good right Nathan?"
"Did you just catch that Zack? That was a small building level feat "

Hey man I read cultivation novels. The one I started has 2607 chs at the moment. I ain't going through it again to evaluate it. Which is a shame because at just ch. 50 the Mc can spam volcanic eruptions and regen from just his brain and heart. And he is going to get way stronger. So it would be a shame not to evaluate it. Though at least another person has started the job.