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STRONGEST ON FCOC! — Ranking of the Most Powerful Characters by Tier

Emben for number one in 10-C and 9-A.

10-C: He has 9-A magic and durability, all of his magic has at least 7 layers (EDIT: 3 layers) because D&D scaling is ridiculous, he has dura neg (also with 7 layers) (EDIT: no he doesn't), plus a durability amp and healing to make it even harder to kill him

9-A: Everything from the first key but better, and he now has Low 7-B magic and dura, his magic has at least 21 layers (EDIT: 7 layers) because D&D scaling is ridiculous, he has such high precision it's basically impossible for him to to miss an attack, and he has probability manip on top of that so he pretty much can't miss, and finally he can spam magic missile (which is guaranteed damage with 21 layers)(EDIT: homing attack/energy projection with 7 layers) if someone does resist anything he does
 
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That number of layers is just wrong, D&D layer scaling is based on taking 10, you could in no universe get anywhere near 7 layers at level 1 or 21 at level 10 unless your name is Pun-Pun
Also +1 weapons aren't probability manipulation, and magic missile is an auto hit only due to being homing
 
deonment said:
That number of layers is just wrong, D&D layer scaling is based on taking 10, you could in no universe get anywhere near 7 layers at level 1 or 21 at level 10 unless your name is Pun-Pun
Click to expand...
This is a really dumb mistake on my part, I was looking at Spell Attack Bonus like an idiot. From what I understand it should actually be 3 layers at first key (Spell Save DC 14) and 7 layers in second (Spell Save DC 18)
Also, not that it really matters in this case, but him being Level 1 is a mistake on the page that I just noticed; the campaign started at level 3
deonment said:
Also +1 weapons aren't probability manipulation
Click to expand...
The probability manip comes from the sword letting him reroll attacks and saves, both for himself and anyone around him
On a side note, would his robe giving him a +1 to saves also not be probability manip?
deonment said:
and magic missile is an auto hit only due to being homing
Click to expand...
Really? It ignores AC, even if that AC comes from wearing really heavy armor or whatever instead of a high dex
 
Might as well try to fill the lists up a bit…

I’m gonna submit Queen Vacteria for 2nd place 6-C. She resists the heat aura Cinner has via resisting her own electric blasts (naturally this extends to the heat of them), which is 50,000 degrees, and she is a very skilled fighter in her own right too. She can contend with Ako’s transformation Comet, which combines him with a master martial artist in Hotaru, greatly enhancing his skills (Ako also previously had defeated Cinner in a thread prior to SDS revisions). She can also summon tens of thousands of minions via her ability to control her colony and she has superior senses to Swarm, who can detect attacks without knowledge of their being an enemy nearby. She can also predict where opponents will go before they do and has many attacks to exploit that. He also doesn’t seem to resist queen bee supreme buzz so I’m pretty confident she’d win in a thread
 
ProbNotAFelon said:
This is a really dumb mistake on my part, I was looking at Spell Attack Bonus like an idiot. From what I understand it should actually be 3 layers at first key (Spell Save DC 14) and 7 layers in second (Spell Save DC 18)
Click to expand...
Aight, honest mistake tbh
ProbNotAFelon said:
The probability manip comes from the sword letting him reroll attacks and saves, both for himself and anyone around him
On a side note, would his robe giving him a +1 to saves also not be probability manip?
Click to expand...
Ah, aight
Nope
ProbNotAFelon said:
Really? It ignores AC, even if that AC comes from wearing really heavy armor or whatever instead of a high dex
Click to expand...
Save or die spells also ignore AC even if logically they should be impacted by the target wearing armor or spell attack spells which should bypass armor getting affected by it. So like, no, not really
 
deonment said:
Save or die spells also ignore AC even if logically they should be impacted by the target wearing armor or spell attack spells which should bypass armor getting affected by it. So like, no, not really
Click to expand...
Aight, what should it be corrected to? Just homing attack, or is there a power/ability that goes with Force damage?
 
I don't remember if I've stated it on this thread, but Elena was a placeholder for the 7-B slot.

The Chronologist is what she was holding the place for.

She has not only Blur's ability, but the ability of every single Homewrecker save The Angel and The Grand, and while she can only access two at a time by default, this is more than enough to have the arsenal of many different people already up on the list, including the friggin' Lizard Wizard. Though it truly gets obscene with her Gradation Layer, which also allows her to form a clone of anyone who's powers she's copied, many of which have very potent hax even if they don't really compare to her in overt power.

I think she should also take The Lizard Wizard's spot in 6-B for similar reasons, since her burst includes his and every other possible one
 
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I'll probably contest the 8-A placement soon too, but the best pick from ALSAN isn't made yet (and the pages that are up haven't been updated with Winds of the King, and their skill feats there would carry over even if not for abilities), so in the meantime
ProbNotAFelon said:
9-A: Everything from the first key but better, and he now has Low 7-B magic and dura, his magic has at least 21 layers because D&D scaling is ridiculous, he has such high precision it's basically impossible for him to to miss an attack, and he has probability manip on top of that so he pretty much can't miss, and finally he can spam magic missile (which is guaranteed damage with 21 layers) if someone does resist anything he does
Click to expand...
I never did respond to this

There is no way on earth a level up is a whole layer, that's just a flagrant misuse of the idea. This was addressed earlier, but like... I'm not sure I agree with the more reasonable interpretation either? Taking 10 is a homebrew rule for simplicity, I don't remember it actually being in a proper DND rulebook and even if it was, the core mechanics are inherently about abilities being inconsistent. It could be very effective because someone rolls badly on a save, or it could be ineffective. That's not very compatible with layering, which distinctly emphasizes that it has to be a step up, where someone who ordinarily resists an ability just fine gets it bypassed because the layer is higher, rather than an ability just being stronger than it was before to some degree

I also don't know why his physical strength is regarded so lowly, obviously wizards aren't meant to have good physicals but that would apply both ways for their durability and physicals strength, both are about as bad if they're forced into a melee scenario
 
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DMUA said:
There is no way on earth a level up is a whole layer, that's just a flagrant misuse of the idea. This was addressed earlier, but like... I'm not sure I agree with the more reasonable interpretation either? Taking 10 is a homebrew rule for simplicity, I don't remember it actually being in a proper DND rulebook and even if it was, the core mechanics are inherently about abilities being inconsistent. It could be very effective because someone rolls badly on a save, or it could be ineffective. That's not very compatible with layering, which distinctly emphasizes that it has to be a step up, where someone who ordinarily resists an ability just fine gets it bypassed because the layer is higher, rather than an ability just being stronger than it was before to some degree
Click to expand...
It's accepted here and explained more here. The logic is that, for example, against something with a save DC of 12, someone making a save of 13 would resist the ability, but someone with a save of 12 would still be affected.
DMUA said:
I also don't know why his physical strength is regarded so lowly, obviously wizards aren't meant to have good physicals but that would apply both ways for their durability and physicals strength, both are about as bad if they're forced into a melee scenario
Click to expand...
He has a -2 in strength compared to an average human's +0, which directly affects his damage with physical attacks. Compare that to his 17 armor class and 27 hit points, versus an average human's 10 AC and 4 hit points. Emben can tank Burning Hands, which is where 9-A comes from, but he can only deal comparable damage with magic, not physicals. Same goes for his Level 10 key, except at this point he has higher strength.

Also, I edited my original post to fix the blatantly incorrect stuff
 
Souleater(s) for 9-B #1 !
Why?

They're basically unstoppable gummy ghouls that can't really be killed by any standard 9-B. Their Type 8 Immortality and regeneration requires you to basically either remove all of their souls or keep forcing them to regenerate, but eventually they're gonna get steal their preys soul.

For that reason I think they should be number 1 for 9-B (I'll elaborate more if need be)
 
ProbNotAFelon said:
It's accepted here and explained more here. The logic is that, for example, against something with a save DC of 12, someone making a save of 13 would resist the ability, but someone with a save of 12 would still be affected.
Click to expand...
But then the guy with a save of 12 rolls a 13 (because they can do that, that's baked into the way these spells interact with targets) to have the effect wear off. Then what? The latter just explains the concept of saving throws, the former has this very direct statement:
There's no "set" layering number.
Click to expand...
ProbNotAFelon said:
He has a -2 in strength compared to an average human's +0, which directly affects his damage with physical attacks.
Click to expand...
Okay, what's his constitution? If you're using stats to the letter for justifications like this (where generally it's just levels and CR that matter), that'd probably imply a very low durability as well (that, and just having armor with a decent DC is as simple as... Having good armor, which isn't a 9-A feat)

If you argue that HP pools still let them qualify, being able to feasibly punch and damage a 9-B (and eventually a Low 7-B) would be 9-B if it gets a little done.
DemiiPowa said:
Souleater(s) for 9-B #1! They're basically unstoppable gummy ghouls that can't really be killed by any standard 9-B. Their Type 8 Immortality and regeneration requires you to basically either remove all of their souls or keep forcing them to regenerate, but eventually they're gonna get steal their preys soul.
Click to expand...
This also applies to Ruta, but she lives in a whole world of people this immortal and his insistence on the Hippocratic Oath means she's pretty experienced in non lethal means of incapacitation. Putting them to sleep, messing with their regeneration so they overheal into a useless blob of flesh that can't properly send electricity into their limbs to attack, stuff like that can be done as easily as deploying his nerves (which travel a lot faster than she does by EoS/in her own world)
 
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DMUA said:
But then the guy with a save of 12 rolls a 13 (because they can do that, that's baked into the way these spells interact with targets). Then what? The latter just explains the concept of saving throws, the former has this very direct statement:


Okay, what's his constitution? If you're using stats to the letter for justifications like this (where generally it's just levels and CR that matter), that'd probably imply a very low durability as well (that, and just having armor with a decent DC is as simple as... Having good armor, which isn't a 9-A feat)

If you argue that HP pools still let them qualify, being able to feasibly punch and damage a 9-B (and eventually a Low 7-B) would be 9-B if it gets a little done.

This also applies to Ruta, but she lives in a whole world of people this immortal and his insistence on the Hippocratic Oath means she's pretty experienced in non lethal means of incapacitation. Putting them to sleep, messing with their regeneration so they overheal into a useless blob of flesh that can't properly send electricity into their limbs to attack, stuff like that can be done as easily as deploying his nerves (which travel a lot faster than she does by EoS/in her own world)
Click to expand...
I feel like even if I argued against the limb shenanigans/nerves, they don't really have a counter to sleep hax.
#2 is fine then.
 
DMUA said:
I'll probably contest the 8-A placement soon too, but the best pick from ALSAN isn't made yet (and the pages that are up haven't been updated with Winds of the King, and their skill feats there would carry over even if not for abilities), so in the meantime
Click to expand...
Chalk it up to 2 AM delirium but I forgot Crimson Phantasms definitely work in that slot

A passive life drain aura with a solid AoE and Mid Regeneration across a 40 meter tall body goes a long way, alongside their other tricks for general combat (which Corrupted ALSANs can take notable advantage of)
Spinoirr said:
On yeah, Salem is about to become low 5-B
Click to expand...
Abarim is another one with a very funny set of interactions, given Magicules can stick to wounds to halt regeneration (and this shouldn't really be limited by the degree of it, given it is just filling a place that should be biological material with stuff that's not biological) and extent an Everyman's personal reality, which could probably just override the curse that gives her immortality in the first place

Though more prominent is probably just the total psychological destruction from a punch, given that they don't resist fear or other mind manipulation
 
DMUA said:
Abarim is another one with a very funny set of interactions, given Magicules can stick to wounds to halt regeneration (and this shouldn't really be limited by the degree of it, given it is just filling a place that should be biological material with stuff that's not biological) and extent an Everyman's personal reality, which could probably just override the curse that gives her immortality in the first place

Though more prominent is probably just the total psychological destruction from a punch, given that they don't resist fear or other mind manipulation
Click to expand...
I mean there's also the fact Ever After Magic ignores universal laws and grants subjective reality

Basically it's for me to expand how magic in Dragon Ball RWBY works

Magic from the Ever After (Maiden powers and the remnants of magic in Humans and Faunus' souls from the frist wave of humans that gain the full access to that same magic via potential unlocks) whatever they think they can do with magic they can do, like Penny thinking she can mix fire and ice magic to make "cold fire" that nullify heat like Shoto Todoroki's move can do or shooting out energy blasts that costs no energy at all despite the Magic boosting their Ki, Aura, Physical abilities, transformations, Techniques as a UES

Magic from the Ever After shouldn't exist in Universe 7, it completely breaks all natural laws of the universe and even those of the Demon Realm watching ssj2 summer Maiden Quart vs Super Buu, and Ultimate Ruby vs Buu (Quart, Piccolo absorbed) can tell both of them using Elemental Magic and full on Magic are using a completely different type of magic then the one they know that breaks the laws of the outside world and even the Demon Realm

*anyone in Dragon Ball RWBY who has magic that came from the Ever After will get Subjective Reality, possibly Law Manipulation and Physics Manipulation with Magic and I made sure to ask others about this and this is what it grants

However Salem is unaware of this aseptic of Magic, although her curse that was put on her was done via magic from the Ever After tho
 
VeneficaAuthor said:
I’m gonna submit Queen Vacteria for 2nd place 6-C. She resists the heat aura Cinner has via resisting her own electric blasts (naturally this extends to the heat of them), which is 50,000 degrees, and she is a very skilled fighter in her own right too. She can contend with Ako’s transformation Comet, which combines him with a master martial artist in Hotaru, greatly enhancing his skills (Ako also previously had defeated Cinner in a thread prior to SDS revisions). She can also summon tens of thousands of minions via her ability to control her colony and she has superior senses to Swarm, who can detect attacks without knowledge of their being an enemy nearby. She can also predict where opponents will go before they do and has many attacks to exploit that. He also doesn’t seem to resist queen bee supreme buzz so I’m pretty confident she’d win in a thread
Click to expand...
Just noticed this. I’m wondering if Vacteria would really win. What’s her AP value, because Cinner is Island+ so he’s likely a good bit stronger plus stomps in LS. Ako only really won because of ice and being able to instantly recharge himself thanks to the environment (Also that was before the 6-C key existed). Also on heat resistance, it sounds like Vacteria’s exposure is brief when compared to Cinner’s aura and the description only says she’s mostly unharmed by the temperature. He also has seemingly better skill and feats of taking on people with similar precognitive/sensory abilities. And he can seamlessly change direction midair which’ll throw off predicting his position before he gets in close and tears Vacteria apart. Supreme Bee Buzz is V’s best win con but it says she has to stay still to use it and supernatural willpower + hyper advanced focus could throw off the disrupted thinking.
 
You should probably make a thread and step up the rhetoric, from what I'm sensing here

Unless there is some massively game changing passive hax that can get this over with
 
/ban and Aizen expy is done for. Or /data.

Unless it is 5-D or 3 layered 4-D immo and HG regen. Steve will kill him just fine.
 
Unless there’s evidence that commands work on a 5-D scale then that sort of hax isn’t really applicable, and I’ve never heard of tier 1 Minecraft before lol
 
Rakih_Elyan said:
Allow, interesting guy.
Click to expand...
I've mentioned this before but even the actual justifications written out onto the page are a bit... familiar.
Arguably, the most fearsome trait of Aizen is his tremendous intellect, which he uses to easily deduce things about his opponent and the world at large.

Even as a child, Aizen possessed an intellect greater than all of his peers. His intellect was so vastly superior to all those around him that his perspective on the world made him an outsider to others. This shows that even as a child, Aizen's mind was so great that he was almost like an alien genius to the other Shinigami and people around him. These Shinigami in particular having the experience brought on by living for decades, if not centuries, along with training in the Shin'ō Academy for 6 years, mastering swordsmanship, Kidō spells, martial arts, and complex footwork, along with simply being taught in general education such as math and literature. The fact that Aizen is simply far above these Shinigami in terms of intellect, even as a child, speaks to his raw mental prowess.
Click to expand...
Sos'ul'nuruo is by far one of the most complex and intelligent beings in existence, with his intelligence dwarfing everyone around him on degrees that no one seemed to be able to understand, allowing him to understand not only everything about his opponents, but every part of existence larger than he or his opponent.

Sos'ul'nuruo, from ages preceding ten possessed intelligence superior to everyone around him, including High Monarchs such as Dukes, Grand Dukes and even Princes who had anywhere from quintillions of years of experience to decillions of years of experience. He quickly learnt all universal and basic techniques in their entirety, alongside crafting his sword Kagebōshi and mastering every form of sword fighting whilst perfecting his hereditary technique at the age of eleven.
Click to expand...
This goes further than just the first tabber of his intelligence section, too. And unlike spectral energy manipulation (Which I'm already not a super big fan of), this is a justification entirely written in relation to a single guy, and a core aspect of his mind and thus character too. I can't say I'm a fan of that on a site dedicated to creativity and showing off niche stuff made by either guys on the site, or stuff made by random guys scattered across the internet too niche to put onto VSBW.
 
DMUA said:
I've mentioned this before but even the actual justifications written out onto the page are a bit... familiar.


This goes further than just the first tabber of his intelligence section, too. And unlike spectral energy manipulation (Which I'm already not a super big fan of), this is a justification entirely written in relation to a single guy, and a core aspect of his mind and thus character too. I can't say I'm a fan of that on a site dedicated to creativity and showing off niche stuff made by either guys on the site, or stuff made by random guys scattered across the internet too niche to put onto VSBW.
Click to expand...
The only major similarity you've drawn is the fact they were both child prodigies (this is VERY important to the relationship, parallels and development in the David and Solnur part of the story as Emperor and Archduke)

And again I explained AT MASSIVE length in the discord why and how he has these similarities and WHY and HOW he differentiates and how that contributed to him as a character

Familiar ≠ non-original.

Plenty of popular characters draw parts of their character from another as that is simply how inspiration goes.

Because they have similarities it doesn't many in any way that Sos'ul'nuruo is suddenly a 100% cheap character and therefore cannot be used. (He draws on like 5+ characters and I'm very surprised you haven't taken note of ANY of the other characters I have put into his design whatsoever, and the substance of him being HIS OWN character)

I have also mentioned and debated with you at length your VERY fervent interest in my characters, storyline and scaling, despite not even half of the first arc being established.

And again, I concurred that in the beginning these were valid criticisms, but now it mores seems like hate for the sake of it, as I have explained, debated and defended my verses story, characters, powers and scaling again and again with valid points.

If you want to specifically debate Sos'ul'nuruo again, I am entirely open to it.
 
Either these guys
fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com

The Outer Gods (Collapse)

The Outer Gods are a race of beings in Collapse that are seen as the technical gods of the universe. Existing in a realm known as the Ultimate Void, they were the ones who exiled Nyarlathotep and formed The Bindings in an attempt to create a prison. They are nigh-omnipotent beings in service to...
fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com
Or this gal
fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com

Maeleachlainn Theudobald Chlodochar, Jordán Burton Gefen Preben Simion Ælfstan Palladino Joaquim Sebastijan Désiré, Faisal Garnier Thor Ewald Janson, Hrodulf Kröger

Disclaimer: Some names/words/terminologies in this page would be excruciatingly long. This is not meant to be taken as a joke. The powers you will read are relatively connected to the main word and are hidden for the viewer's leisure. It is not advised for one to 'unhide' said word, as it may...
fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com
For 2-A list
 
Rakih_Elyan said:
Either these guys
fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com

The Outer Gods (Collapse)

The Outer Gods are a race of beings in Collapse that are seen as the technical gods of the universe. Existing in a realm known as the Ultimate Void, they were the ones who exiled Nyarlathotep and formed The Bindings in an attempt to create a prison. They are nigh-omnipotent beings in service to...
fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com
Or this gal
fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com

Maeleachlainn Theudobald Chlodochar, Jordán Burton Gefen Preben Simion Ælfstan Palladino Joaquim Sebastijan Désiré, Faisal Garnier Thor Ewald Janson, Hrodulf Kröger

Disclaimer: Some names/words/terminologies in this page would be excruciatingly long. This is not meant to be taken as a joke. The powers you will read are relatively connected to the main word and are hidden for the viewer's leisure. It is not advised for one to 'unhide' said word, as it may...
fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com fcoc-vs-battles.fandom.com
For 2-A list
Click to expand...
No.

For the 1st one, Council didn't want to participate.

For the 2nd one, not putting that on this list.
 
Honestly with how low the bar seems to be, sure why not

The Harbinger of Death for 2-A, Ego-Death passively renders opponents into gibbering madmen running in the opposite direction, and from there could either absorb their life-force or turn them into particles, and he's pretty much impossible to kill or do a lot of harm to. Given the original timeline/other timelines haven't been entirely written there's probably a lot more stuff he'll eventually have added to the pile, but for now he's got a solid setup for generally winning against whatever doesn't resist
 
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