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Sonic upgrades
- Thread starter Maverick_Zero_X
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Also, I'm not the bane of Sonic upgrades, Weekly, Azathoth and Matt are all way more strict than I am.
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WHO NEEDS SLEEPMaverick Zero X said:
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That would be me. Can't wait to see this shitshow tomorrow! Later!
Bobsican
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I mean, not all the wiki´s users are in the America continent, so variations in day/night time can vary a lot.Oblivion Lightning said:
However, I´ve noticed the wiki becomes somewhat inactive while it´s around midnight in America, which makes sense considering a noticeable poor amount of users that speak eastern languages natively
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It's past 12:00 am where I am. But who needs sleep?
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Yeah it's the middle of the night where I am and I got summer break so I'm staying up late but damn I'm taking a break from debating right now
ShakeResounding
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Executor made a comment as to why the continents ''didn't'' just fall back into place. I'll find it and post it here
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Why would you need sleep after waking up just hours ago?
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I.....You.....but....DarkDragonMedeus said:
Yeah you have pretty good point lol
ShakeResounding
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Executor's comment on the falling continent stuff.
All of what he said makes perfect sense in disregarding that argument.
All of what he said makes perfect sense in disregarding that argument.
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Maverick's going to post his rebuttal to DDM so I'll sit back and wait.
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The Continents don't "Freefall" for sure, but it is mostly Dark Gaia's power being weakened and the Continents falling slowly. Executer does have a good call of judgement but it would still more so be the positive side of the individual Chaos Emeralds rather than the negative side; which the negative energy is generally much weaker. Chaos 1-4 absorbs uses the negative energy of the Chaos Emeralds.
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I agree with this thread. Sonic should've been planet level a long time ago lol
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Well considering how Weekly and Azathoth rarely participates, and how Matt barely contributes anything useful in these threads, I would have to say you're actually the biggest bane for Sonic upgrades. You're the one that is consistently providing nuanced arguments against these upgrades and for the most part, they don't pass.DarkDragonMedeus said:
I'm not saying this as an insult, merely just pointing out what I see.
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First and foremost is the ABIS feat. I was informed that nobody scales from it and that it would absolutely one shot everyone period. Nobody did anything to the Black Hole and it kills ABIS alongside it; making him a glass cannon no one scales from. The most obvious one out of the way.
Firstly, the black hole was spawned by the five Arks of the Cosmos, the same power that SCR-HD used to amp himself and become Master Core: ABIS. Secondly, ABIS doesn't doesn't die to its own black hole, it's destroyed by Sonic.
Next is the space station, It is planet sized, but we don't assume planet sized objects have Planet level durability. An object of said size would have around Tier 6 durability according to Kepekley and Kaltias among other people. Space Stations also don't have GBE so that would also not be quantifiable.
I wasn't exactly making the point that the amusement park had Tier 5 durability, it's that it was planet-sized and the Hyper-go-on explosion completely engulfed it and continued to expand from there, thus making it a Planet-sized explosio.
[Emerl "Destroying the Planet" wasn't specific enough. And it said it required all 7 Chaos Emeralds according to Gerald Robotnik's statements. And if he was empowered by the Chaos Emeralds, then it would be an outlier for Base Sonic since he should be way above him. However, the plot has Emerl going to use Final Egg Blaster to destroy the Earth, which then gets deactivated. Nothing indicates base forms being Tier 5 just from this but on to the next batch.
Emerl "destroying the WHOLE planet" is pretty explicit in my book. Also, despite Ultimate Emerl having all seven Chaos Emeralds, he was incomparable to Super Sonic due to being powered by the Negative energy of the Chaos Emeralds, which is explicitly stated to be weaker than the Positive energy.
Actually, the plot of Sonic Unleashed is that the Chaos Emeralds were completely drained by Dark Gaia, and Dark Gaia used the negative energy of all 7 Chaos Emeralds to split the Earth and keep each Continent in a floating state. Each Chaos Emerald being placed at each Gaia Temple simply weakens Dark Gaia with each Chaos Emerald being restored. Implying that the Continents literally do simply fall back to Earth in place.
I really don't get this one at all.
1. Where is it stated that restoring the planet weakens Dark Gaia?
2. Why are you insistent on implying that Chaos Energy has nothing to do with the planet restoration? Saying that the chunks simply "fell" back into place is an outright lie, and if that were the case Sonic's whole journey was pointless. Chaos Energy is rather explicitly stated to be directly responsible for the planet restoratio.
And I still believe that the intro to Sonic Advance 3 heavily implies the feat was done with all 7. The plot of the game does still show Eggman is in possession of all 7 Chaos Emeralds; and there's no reason not to assume that he used all 7 given it's consistent that planetary scale feats required all 7.
You haven't really given sufficient proof that all seven were used as the actual cutscene just shows one. The fact that Eggman had all seven doesn't prove he used all seven. And as shown by Sonic Unleashed Planetary scale feats are indeed possible with just one.
Extractor stuff
Eggman rather explicitly stated that a malfunction with he energy that was presently in the Extractor would cause the instantaneous destruction of Earth. It's baseline 5-B, but a supporting feat nevertheless.
The upgrade stands tall.
Firstly, the black hole was spawned by the five Arks of the Cosmos, the same power that SCR-HD used to amp himself and become Master Core: ABIS. Secondly, ABIS doesn't doesn't die to its own black hole, it's destroyed by Sonic.
Next is the space station, It is planet sized, but we don't assume planet sized objects have Planet level durability. An object of said size would have around Tier 6 durability according to Kepekley and Kaltias among other people. Space Stations also don't have GBE so that would also not be quantifiable.
I wasn't exactly making the point that the amusement park had Tier 5 durability, it's that it was planet-sized and the Hyper-go-on explosion completely engulfed it and continued to expand from there, thus making it a Planet-sized explosio.
[Emerl "Destroying the Planet" wasn't specific enough. And it said it required all 7 Chaos Emeralds according to Gerald Robotnik's statements. And if he was empowered by the Chaos Emeralds, then it would be an outlier for Base Sonic since he should be way above him. However, the plot has Emerl going to use Final Egg Blaster to destroy the Earth, which then gets deactivated. Nothing indicates base forms being Tier 5 just from this but on to the next batch.
Emerl "destroying the WHOLE planet" is pretty explicit in my book. Also, despite Ultimate Emerl having all seven Chaos Emeralds, he was incomparable to Super Sonic due to being powered by the Negative energy of the Chaos Emeralds, which is explicitly stated to be weaker than the Positive energy.
Actually, the plot of Sonic Unleashed is that the Chaos Emeralds were completely drained by Dark Gaia, and Dark Gaia used the negative energy of all 7 Chaos Emeralds to split the Earth and keep each Continent in a floating state. Each Chaos Emerald being placed at each Gaia Temple simply weakens Dark Gaia with each Chaos Emerald being restored. Implying that the Continents literally do simply fall back to Earth in place.
I really don't get this one at all.
1. Where is it stated that restoring the planet weakens Dark Gaia?
2. Why are you insistent on implying that Chaos Energy has nothing to do with the planet restoration? Saying that the chunks simply "fell" back into place is an outright lie, and if that were the case Sonic's whole journey was pointless. Chaos Energy is rather explicitly stated to be directly responsible for the planet restoratio.
| If we act now, we may be able to restore the planet by returning power to the Chaos Emeralds. Sonic, you must travel to each of the temples listed in the Gaia Manuscripts. The planet's power will restore the Chaos Emeralds, and in turn the Chaos Emeralds will restore the planet and help it heal naturally. | ||
~ Professor Pickle |
You haven't really given sufficient proof that all seven were used as the actual cutscene just shows one. The fact that Eggman had all seven doesn't prove he used all seven. And as shown by Sonic Unleashed Planetary scale feats are indeed possible with just one.
Extractor stuff
Eggman rather explicitly stated that a malfunction with he energy that was presently in the Extractor would cause the instantaneous destruction of Earth. It's baseline 5-B, but a supporting feat nevertheless.
The upgrade stands tall.
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Whew.
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Nice responseMaverick Zero X said:
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JJSliderman said:
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Finding the Zodiac Killer < Figuring out power scaling in Sonic the Hedgehog
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To add on to what Maverick said:
ABIS also tanks its own black hole.
The amusement park literally has five planets attached to it.
Emerl is 5-B. The whole planet means the whole planet, not just the surface. Gerald was worried about Emerl obtaining the 7 Chaos Emeralds because that would trigger his original programming.
Dark Gaia didn't drain the Emeralds, that was the Chaos Energy Cannon. Nothing says or shows Dark Gaia was holding up those continents either.
No evidence Eggman used all 7 Emeralds in the Advance 3 planet splitting. The cutscene would've shown all 7 if that was the case, and where did it say Eggman had all of them?
Don't need to add anything about the Eggrobo, Maverick got it fully covered.
ABIS also tanks its own black hole.
The amusement park literally has five planets attached to it.
Emerl is 5-B. The whole planet means the whole planet, not just the surface. Gerald was worried about Emerl obtaining the 7 Chaos Emeralds because that would trigger his original programming.
Dark Gaia didn't drain the Emeralds, that was the Chaos Energy Cannon. Nothing says or shows Dark Gaia was holding up those continents either.
No evidence Eggman used all 7 Emeralds in the Advance 3 planet splitting. The cutscene would've shown all 7 if that was the case, and where did it say Eggman had all of them?
Don't need to add anything about the Eggrobo, Maverick got it fully covered.
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I'm pretty sure tanking black holes aren't considered quantifiable feats here.
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"Helped defeat Master Core: ABIS, who created a black hole that would've destroyed the planet."
First problem with this is that the Rider Games aren't canon to mainline Sonic. Second problem is that nobody would have survived ABIS' Black Hole if he weren't stopped.
Defeated the Nega-Wisp Armor, which was powered by the same Hyper-go-on energy that created a black hole that destroyed Eggman's interstellar amusement park, which was planet-sized .
Eggman's Amusement Park in colors is visibly tiny in every cutscene and not actually planet-sized, an IGN interview does not supersede the actual game.
Also Eggrobo is only High 6-A. Sonic defeating Perfect Chaos in base has always been considered an outlier. It makes no sense for Base Sonic to defeat a villain empowered by all 7 emeralds.
So overall you only have Emerl as an actual feat.
First problem with this is that the Rider Games aren't canon to mainline Sonic. Second problem is that nobody would have survived ABIS' Black Hole if he weren't stopped.
Defeated the Nega-Wisp Armor, which was powered by the same Hyper-go-on energy that created a black hole that destroyed Eggman's interstellar amusement park, which was planet-sized .
Eggman's Amusement Park in colors is visibly tiny in every cutscene and not actually planet-sized, an IGN interview does not supersede the actual game.
Also Eggrobo is only High 6-A. Sonic defeating Perfect Chaos in base has always been considered an outlier. It makes no sense for Base Sonic to defeat a villain empowered by all 7 emeralds.
So overall you only have Emerl as an actual feat.
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What states Riders is non-canon? Also, the black holes negate durability so being unable to survive even a Tier 5 black hole is a given.
Eggman's Amusement Park connects five whole planets, and it being planet-sized comes form a WoG statement, not some random guy at IGN.
The Eggrobo is 5-B, and I never argued Perfect Chaos was useable.
Eggman's Amusement Park connects five whole planets, and it being planet-sized comes form a WoG statement, not some random guy at IGN.
The Eggrobo is 5-B, and I never argued Perfect Chaos was useable.
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@Maverick Sonic never dealt with the Black Hole directly, and said Black Hole oneshots Sonic and the others. Sonic simply defeated him before he could truly unleash the Black Hole. The ABIS feat is not legit. There's also still the inconsistencies of black holes in general.
Okay, but Sonic never tanked said explosion, let alone at point blank and is not the one causing the explosion. That sounds far more like a chain reaction. I still wouldn't use the Space Station from Sonic Colors.
A lot of verses say the entire planet as a means for surface busting. Medeus was stated to be capable of burning the planet to ashes, but it made more sense for him to burn the surface and with no specified timeframe. Yu Yu Hakusho characters are also not 5-B based on the very same statement. Anyway, if he was powered by all 7, he would be Tier 5 for sure, but the statement alone doesn't qualify for it. And it's an outlier for Base Sonic to beat someone powered by all 7. He's incomparible to Super Sonic yes.
The Chaos Emeralds receive their power back when placed on the Gaia Temples. That was the very beginning of Unleashed, the Chaos Cannon drained the Chaos Power from Super Sonic and used that same power to awaken Dark Gaia. And the Chaos Emeralds all turned Black in the process. Each Chaos Emerald being restored is what leads to the planet being restored bit by bit. Positive Energy > Negative Energy is already given on the Chaos Emerald's profile.
Just because the cutscene only shows 1 doesn't mean Eggman only used one. Just because someone loaded 50 bags of mulch into someone's truck when we only saw him load 3 on screen doesn't mean that he only loaded 3. It's still a big part of the plot that Eggman was already in possession of all 7, so it would be PIS for him to only use 1.
I'm not arguing about Eggrobo not being 5-B, only that it appears to be a reactor that is 5-B.
Okay, but Sonic never tanked said explosion, let alone at point blank and is not the one causing the explosion. That sounds far more like a chain reaction. I still wouldn't use the Space Station from Sonic Colors.
A lot of verses say the entire planet as a means for surface busting. Medeus was stated to be capable of burning the planet to ashes, but it made more sense for him to burn the surface and with no specified timeframe. Yu Yu Hakusho characters are also not 5-B based on the very same statement. Anyway, if he was powered by all 7, he would be Tier 5 for sure, but the statement alone doesn't qualify for it. And it's an outlier for Base Sonic to beat someone powered by all 7. He's incomparible to Super Sonic yes.
The Chaos Emeralds receive their power back when placed on the Gaia Temples. That was the very beginning of Unleashed, the Chaos Cannon drained the Chaos Power from Super Sonic and used that same power to awaken Dark Gaia. And the Chaos Emeralds all turned Black in the process. Each Chaos Emerald being restored is what leads to the planet being restored bit by bit. Positive Energy > Negative Energy is already given on the Chaos Emerald's profile.
Just because the cutscene only shows 1 doesn't mean Eggman only used one. Just because someone loaded 50 bags of mulch into someone's truck when we only saw him load 3 on screen doesn't mean that he only loaded 3. It's still a big part of the plot that Eggman was already in possession of all 7, so it would be PIS for him to only use 1.
I'm not arguing about Eggrobo not being 5-B, only that it appears to be a reactor that is 5-B.
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The fact that Riders' whole world is incompatible with the rest of the series. It's a bunch of futuristic cyberpunk cities, not a normal modern world.
The planets are all tiny. They barely qualify as small moons.
The simultaneous release of all the energy the Eggrobo accumulated is 5-B. Said energy is the Eggrobo's power source. If he were to use that energy in combat it would shut down after one attack.
The planets are all tiny. They barely qualify as small moons.
The simultaneous release of all the energy the Eggrobo accumulated is 5-B. Said energy is the Eggrobo's power source. If he were to use that energy in combat it would shut down after one attack.
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Eggman never made a single Tier 2 mech in the series and his tech is never portrayed as normal to the world which literally has a White House and a sitting US President.
Don't start the hostility yourself.
Don't start the hostility yourself.
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Also, it is you that must prove a positive, not the other way around. Sonic has about as much continuity as Super Mario but people here pretend it is a cohesive story.
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Futuristic cities don't cancel out all of Sonic Riders being noncanon as futuristic devices and buildings do exist in the mainstream world.Although I always did think that riders was in an alternate universe or something but that was just my own headcanon.
Agreed hostility will only make things worse.Lets try to remain civil
Agreed hostility will only make things worse.Lets try to remain civil
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You did act hostile, MYHERO.
But yes you need to prove that Riders is main universe and not just a silly spin off.
But yes you need to prove that Riders is main universe and not just a silly spin off.
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-To be completely fair Eggman needed the help from other sources in order to make those teir 2 devices ex.Eggman Nega and his younger selfMYHERO said:
-The futuristic cities are and indicator that it might beauty of the canon timeline but doesn't really confirm it same with the other way around
ShakeResounding
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So this is where non-canon Riders comes from, huh?
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Also, bringing up the Sonic Colors "Black Hole" is silly since it would have explicitely killed Sonic, who had to run from it to survive. Sonic doesn't scale to the black hole feats being attributed to make him 5-B.
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In the words of the great Grandmaster Wigglytuff, let's be friendly friends.
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It's non-canon because it has futuristic cities? What of every other "futuristic" city in the franchise? Do those cities make their games non-canon?
The world map isn't draw to scale; here's a shot of the planets in an actual cutscene.
That's not how the game treated its "battery". Even when the Eggrobo augmented its energy output it never burned out.
The world map isn't draw to scale; here's a shot of the planets in an actual cutscene.
That's not how the game treated its "battery". Even when the Eggrobo augmented its energy output it never burned out.
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