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"Parry these nerfs, Hedgehog!" Early Modern AP Downgrade, LS Changes, OP Parrying, Eggman Additions, & More

No need for more than 2 staff approvals I suppose? The Parry is rejected, but everything else is unanimously agreed upon
 
JJSliderman said:
Yeah, can confirm after testing that you can’t parry Knight’s hand when it slams down, only the shockwaves. So, no go on 1-C parry sadly.
Click to expand...
Thanks JJ. By the way, you can now aply the revisions to your Sonic Riders thread. You were waiting for the downgrade to be accepted after all, and now it is.
 
Are there any pages that need to be unlocked to apply the downgrade?

Additionally, are some of the characters getting "High 3-A to 2-C"? Because tbh, I really would like avoiding that format. If we want to apply it, we should do "High 3-A. 2-C by Sonic and the Secret Rings" (or whenever 2-C starts). Better than the vagueness of "[X Tier] to [Y Tier]" with no elaboration.

Idk, I feel we should avoid implementing this in a way that makes the pages bloated/sloppy/more confusing. Does anybody have any ideas, agree with my suggestion, or something else?
 
Last edited:
Mephiles won't have a SxSG key on his profile to address him battling a 2-C Shadow?

Is this going to be handled in a separate thread?
 
ShakeResounding said:
Are there any pages that need to be unlocked to apply the downgrade?

Additionally, are some of the characters getting "High 3-A to 2-C"? Because tbh, I really would like avoiding that format. If we want to apply it, we should do "High 3-A. 2-C by Sonic and the Secret Rings" (or whenever 2-C starts). Better than the vagueness of "[X Tier] to [Y Tier]" with no elaboration.

Idk, I feel we should avoid implementing this in a way that makes the pages bloated/sloppy/more confusing. Does anybody have any ideas, agree with my suggestion, or something else?
Click to expand...
Your suggestion is good.
McFriesGuy075 said:
Mephiles won't have a SxSG key on his profile to address him battling a 2-C Shadow?

Is this going to be handled in a separate thread?
Click to expand...
Separate thread.

We need to unlock the core 4, Eggman, and Shadow for this thread. Metal and Silver too if we apply the Parry to them since Neo and ESP have it in Speed Sim.
 
Theuser789 said:
Your suggestion is good.
Click to expand...
Alright, cool. Because Sonic Riders (and only Ridera) is being moved to Pre-06. For that, I'll list the characters that are playable in OG Riders who would then immediately scale to High 3-A:
  • Modern Sonic (DONE)
  • Tails (DONE)
  • Knuckles (DONE)
  • Amy (DONE)
  • Jet (DONE)
  • Wave (DONE)
  • Storm (DONE)
  • Shadow
  • Rouge
  • Cream
  • E-10000G (Metal Sonic)
  • E-10000R

These are the characters that scale to High 3-A after Riders but before Sonic becomes 2-C in Secret Rings.

  • Blaze (DONE)
  • Silver (DONE)
  • Espio (DONE)
  • Marine (Rush Adventure) (DONE)
  • The Rush Series Bosses (DONE)
  • Sonic 06 Bosses
  • Master Core ABIS (Riders Zero G) (DONE)

We'll need to make a list of characters affected by High 3-A that eventually become 2-C that need editing... which I'll just do now.

EDIT: Those who are crossed out have already been revised.
  • Modern Sonic (2-C by Secret Rings)
  • Shadow (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode, and by scaling to Sir Lancelot. 2 Universes)
    • For reference, the Knights mentioned also scale to 2-C.
  • Knuckles (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode, and by scaling to Sir Gawain. 2 Universes)
  • Silver (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode, and by scaling to Sir Galahad. 2 Universes)
  • Blaze (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode, and by scaling to Sir Percival. 2 Universes)
  • Tails (2-C by Black Knight, scaling to Blacksmith. 2 Universes)
  • Amy Rose (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode.
  • Jet (2-C by Black Knight, scaling to Sir Lamorak. 2 Universes)
  • Dr. Eggman (2-C inventions by Unleashed [2 Universes], higher with the Egg Dragoon [12 Universes])
From what I gather, the next main point of scaling is Free Riders (For reference, the only 2 titles between Black Knight and Free Riders is Unleashed and Black Knight). Iirc there are attacks that characters can do bare-handed. Quickest example coming to mind is me seeing gameplay of Vector physically swinging at nearby racers. If that's the case, here are the characters that get "2-C by Sonic Free Riders":
  • Vector (2 Universes)
  • Cream (2 Universes)
  • Wave (2 Universes)
  • Storm (2 Universes)
  • Rouge (2 Universes)
And I BELIEVE... I've gotten everyone of importance. After Free Riders is Colors, and the current AP of 12 Universes into 2-C starts with Sonic Colors due to the Nega Wisp Armor being superior to the Egg Dragoon (which Base Sonic didn't scale to).

Therefore, everybody who has scaling to 2 Universes AND to 12 Universes will need a Note on their page specifying the two ends of AP and where it starts. I'll use Vector as an example.
  • Note: Vector's 2-C rating contains 2 different ends. He scales to 2 Universes from Sonic Free Riders and onwards, and begins scaling to 12 Universes after the six-month jump in Sonic Forces.

After Colors is Generations, then Lost World, Forces, Team Sonic Racing, IDW (hasn't passed Frontiers yet), then Frontiers.
 
Last edited:
ShakeResounding said:
Alright, cool. Because Sonic Riders (and only Ridera) is being moved to Pre-06. For that, I'll list the characters that are playable in OG Riders who would then immediately scale to High 3-A:
  • Modern Sonic
  • Tails
  • Knuckles
  • Amy
  • Jet
  • Wave
  • Storm
  • Shadow
  • Rouge
  • Cream
  • E-10000G (Metal Sonic)
  • E-10000R

These are the characters that scale to High 3-A after Riders but before Sonic becomes 2-C in Secret Rings.

  • Blaze (Sonic Rush)
  • Silver (Rivals)
  • Espio (Rivals 2)
  • Marine (Rush Adventure)
  • The Rush Series Bosses
  • Sonic 06 Bosses
  • Master Core ABIS (Riders Zero G)

We'll need to make a list of characters affected by High 3-A that eventually become 2-C that need editing... which I'll just do now.
  • Modern Sonic (2-C by Secret Rings)
  • Shadow (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode, and by scaling to Sir Lancelot)
    • For reference, the Knights mentioned also scale to 2-C.
  • Knuckles (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode, and by scaling to Sir Gawain)
  • Silver (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode, and by scaling to Sir Galahad)
  • Blaze (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode, and by scaling to Sir Percival)
  • Tails (2-C by Black Knight, scaling to Blacksmith)
  • Amy Rose (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode)
  • Jet (2-C by Black Knight, scaling to Sir Lamorak)
  • Dr. Eggman (2-C inventions by Unleashed. So 2-C Egg Dragoon, and whatever else in the game that scales and which has a profile).
From what I gather, the next main point of scaling is Free Riders (For reference, the only 2 titles between Black Knight and Free Riders is Unleashed and Black Knight). Iirc there are attacks that characters can do bare-handed. Quickest example coming to mind is me seeing gameplay of Vector physically swinging at nearby racers. If that's the case, here are the characters that get "2-C by Sonic Free Riders":
  • Vector
  • Amy
  • Cream
  • Wave
  • Storm
  • Rouge
And I BELIEVE... I've gotten everyone of importance. After Free Riders is Colors, then Generations, then Lost World, Forces, Team Sonic Racing, IDW (hasn't passed Frontiers yet), then Frontiers.
Click to expand...
Sounds good, but I think Secret Rings 2-C only scales to around 2 universes. Meanwhile the current 12 universes scales to Unleashed (Egg-Dragoon only) and Colors. So Pre-Colors 2-C characters scale to 2 universes while Post-Colors they scale to 12 universes.
 
Wasn't Prime said to happen after Advance 3? Was that retconned or did I miss something, because that would make the characters scale to 6 universes.
 
McFriesGuy075 said:
Wasn't Prime said to happen after Advance 3? Was that retconned or did I miss something, because that would make the characters scale to 6 universes.
Click to expand...
Ian already clarified Prime doesn't happen immediately after Advance 3, just after it just like how Colors is after SA2 but not right after.
 
Theuser789 said:
Sounds good, but I think Secret Rings 2-C only scales to around 2 universes. Meanwhile the current 12 universes scales to Unleashed (Egg-Dragoon only) and Colors. So Pre-Colors 2-C characters scale to 2 universes while Post-Colors they scale to 12 universes.
Click to expand...
Edited my comment to accommodate for your suggestion. Egg Dragoon and Nega Wisp Armor become super important pages in terms of being able to gauge the scaling, so I think the relevant villain pages are just as important to edit.

Because this looks like it will require more work than initially assumed, I'd be willing to help perform edits for this CRT. Seems the help is needed
 
I've updated my Powerscaling Blog to align with the changes accepted in this thread, including the adjustments of High 3-A and specifying the number of universes that the characters in 2-C scales to (2 Universes from Secret Rings - Free Riders, 12 Universes for Post-Colors and onwards). yes I got it out of the way in advance so I don't have to be bothered to change it later

I have also updated the Egg Dragoon and Nega-Wisp Armor to be a tad more obvious in the level of 2-C they're at.

I believe this makes the tiering pretty explicit and helps to avoid confusion from those unacquainted with the verse.
 
ShakeResounding said:
Additionally, are some of the characters getting "High 3-A to 2-C"? Because tbh, I really would like avoiding that format. If we want to apply it, we should do "High 3-A. 2-C by Sonic and the Secret Rings" (or whenever 2-C starts). Better than the vagueness of "[X Tier] to [Y Tier]" with no elaboration.
Click to expand...
That is already what I started to do with some profiles, but linking the power-scalling blog in more places to make it as accessible as possible is all it takes to solve this problem tbh. Just so you know, I already made a request in the general request thread to unlock all of the relevant profiles (which is most locked profiles in the verse actually).
ShakeResounding said:
Alright, cool. Because Sonic Riders (and only Ridera) is being moved to Pre-06. For that, I'll list the characters that are playable in OG Riders who would then immediately scale to High 3-A:
  • Modern Sonic
  • Tails
  • Knuckles
  • Amy
  • Jet
  • Wave
  • Storm
  • Shadow
  • Rouge
  • Cream
  • E-10000G (Metal Sonic)
  • E-10000R

These are the characters that scale to High 3-A after Riders but before Sonic becomes 2-C in Secret Rings.

  • Blaze (Sonic Rush)
  • Silver (Rivals)
  • Espio (Rivals 2)
  • Marine (Rush Adventure)
  • The Rush Series Bosses
  • Sonic 06 Bosses
  • Master Core ABIS (Riders Zero G)

We'll need to make a list of characters affected by High 3-A that eventually become 2-C that need editing... which I'll just do now.
  • Modern Sonic (2-C by Secret Rings)
  • Shadow (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode, and by scaling to Sir Lancelot. 2 Universes)
    • For reference, the Knights mentioned also scale to 2-C.
  • Knuckles (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode, and by scaling to Sir Gawain. 2 Universes)
  • Silver (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode, and by scaling to Sir Galahad. 2 Universes)
  • Blaze (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode, and by scaling to Sir Percival. 2 Universes)
  • Tails (2-C by Black Knight, scaling to Blacksmith. 2 Universes)
  • Amy Rose (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode.
  • Jet (2-C by Black Knight, scaling to Sir Lamorak. 2 Universes)
  • Dr. Eggman (2-C inventions by Unleashed [2 Universes], higher with the Egg Dragoon [12 Universes])
From what I gather, the next main point of scaling is Free Riders (For reference, the only 2 titles between Black Knight and Free Riders is Unleashed and Black Knight). Iirc there are attacks that characters can do bare-handed. Quickest example coming to mind is me seeing gameplay of Vector physically swinging at nearby racers. If that's the case, here are the characters that get "2-C by Sonic Free Riders":
  • Vector (2 Universes)
  • Amy (2 Universes)
  • Cream (2 Universes)
  • Wave (2 Universes)
  • Storm (2 Universes)
  • Rouge (2 Universes)
And I BELIEVE... I've gotten everyone of importance. After Free Riders is Colors, and the current AP of 12 Universes into 2-C starts with Sonic Colors due to the Nega Wisp Armor being superior to the Egg Dragoon (which Base Sonic didn't scale to).

Therefore, everybody who has scaling to 2 Universes AND to 6 Universes will need a Note on their page specifying the two ends of AP and where it starts. I'll use Vector as an example.
  • Note: Vector's 2-C rating contains 2 different ends. He scales to 2 Universes from Sonic Free Riders and onwards, and begins scaling to 6 Universes after the six-month jump in Sonic Forces.

After Colors is Generations, then Lost World, Forces, Team Sonic Racing, IDW (hasn't passed Frontiers yet), then Frontiers.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this! Very through. Except you said "6 universes" in places that should say 12, and I don't think every profile needs a note when we can just use statistics values instead. Don't you think? Linking the power-scalling blog would once again be useful too.
ShakeResounding said:
I've updated my Powerscaling Blog to align with the changes accepted in this thread, including the adjustments of High 3-A and specifying the number of universes that the characters in 2-C scales to (2 Universes from Secret Rings - Free Riders, 12 Universes for Post-Colors and onwards). yes I got it out of the way in advance so I don't have to be bothered to change it later

I have also updated the Egg Dragoon and Nega-Wisp Armor to be a tad more obvious in the level of 2-C they're at.

I believe this makes the tiering pretty explicit and helps to avoid confusion from those unacquainted with the verse.
Click to expand...
Nice! I have some minor issues though. Idk if you were planning on editing them later, but where did the upscalling in Sonic 06 go? For Shadow, Mephiles, and Omega? Also, the way you describe Erazor Djinn's feat makes it sound universal instead of Low Multi. Just edit the part where you call the Arabian Nights "an entire universe" and replace it with "a macrocosm comprised of its main reality and the separate space-time of the Night Palace" or something.
 
and a speed feat from the same game (which is almost equal to the value the base cast of that era currently scales to) here.
Click to expand...

ShakeResounding said:
I've updated my Powerscaling Blog to align with the changes accepted in this thread, including the adjustments of High 3-A and specifying the number of universes that the characters in 2-C scales to (2 Universes from Secret Rings - Free Riders, 12 Universes for Post-Colors and onwards). yes I got it out of the way in advance so I don't have to be bothered to change it later

I have also updated the Egg Dragoon and Nega-Wisp Armor to be a tad more obvious in the level of 2-C they're at.

I believe this makes the tiering pretty explicit and helps to avoid confusion from those unacquainted with the verse.
Click to expand...
forgot the speed feat
 
Peptocoptr27 said:
The one from Zero Gravity? From what I've seen, the value from it is slightly lower than the one the base cast already scales to. Including it in the blog as support would be good though I guess.
Click to expand...
huh, no, the calc is "trillions" while the base cast pre Secret Rings is "billions", it is actually far higher
 
Peptocoptr27 said:
That is already what I started to do with some profiles, but linking the power-scalling blog in more places to make it as accessible as possible is all it takes to solve this problem tbh. Just so you know, I already made a request in the general request thread to unlock all of the relevant profiles (which is most locked profiles in the verse actually).
Click to expand...
Hmm...
Thanks for this! Very through. Except you said "6 universes" in places that should say 12, and I don't think every profile needs a note when we can just use statistics values instead. Don't you think? Linking the power-scalling blog would once again be useful too.
Click to expand...
Fixed. Also, a Statistic Value is what I meant lol
Nice! I have some minor issues though. Idk if you were planning on editing them later, but where did the upscalling in Sonic 06 go? For Shadow, Mephiles, and Omega? Also, the way you describe Erazor Djinn's feat makes it sound universal instead of Low Multi. Just edit the part where you call the Arabian Nights "an entire universe" and replace it with "a macrocosm comprised of its main reality and the separate space-time of the Night Palace" or something.
Click to expand...
Done.
 
Editing Metal Sonic 3.0 and Marine really makes me think that we need to place Speed Sim in the timeline somehow. Evene if it's as vague as "some time after Forces". I knew this revision would be huge, but damn... Maybe I should have waited until we're done with the Speed Sim revisions lol. There's no rush at least. As long as we don't forget anything
 
Peptocoptr27 said:
Editing Metal Sonic 3.0 and Marine really makes me think that we need to place Speed Sim in the timeline somehow. Evene if it's as vague as "some time after Forces". I knew this revision would be huge, but damn... Maybe I should have waited until we're done with the Speed Sim revisions lol. There's no rush at least. As long as we don't forget anything
Click to expand...
It began Pre-Frontiers but had a Frontiers event. Safe to assume it's Post-Frontiers now, it just had a "wide" timeline (that I'm sure is to expand in the future)
 
Peptocoptr27 said:
Editing Metal Sonic 3.0 and Marine really makes me think that we need to place Speed Sim in the timeline somehow. Evene if it's as vague as "some time after Forces". I knew this revision would be huge, but damn... Maybe I should have waited until we're done with the Speed Sim revisions lol. There's no rush at least. As long as we don't forget anything
Click to expand...
Nibroc spoke about where Speed Sim takes place here:


Basically starts Pre-Frontiers then grows beyond.
 
ShakeResounding said:
Alright, cool. Because Sonic Riders (and only Ridera) is being moved to Pre-06. For that, I'll list the characters that are playable in OG Riders who would then immediately scale to High 3-A:
  • Modern Sonic (DONE)
  • Tails (DONE)
  • Knuckles (DONE)
  • Amy (DONE)
  • Jet (DONE)
  • Wave (DONE)
  • Storm (DONE)
  • Shadow
  • Rouge
  • Cream
  • E-10000G (Metal Sonic)
  • E-10000R

These are the characters that scale to High 3-A after Riders but before Sonic becomes 2-C in Secret Rings.

  • Blaze (DONE)
  • Silver (DONE)
  • Espio (DONE)
  • Marine (Rush Adventure) (DONE)
  • The Rush Series Bosses (DONE)
  • Sonic 06 Bosses
  • Master Core ABIS (Riders Zero G) (DONE)

We'll need to make a list of characters affected by High 3-A that eventually become 2-C that need editing... which I'll just do now.

EDIT: Those who are crossed out have already been revised.
  • Modern Sonic (2-C by Secret Rings)
  • Shadow (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode, and by scaling to Sir Lancelot. 2 Universes)
    • For reference, the Knights mentioned also scale to 2-C.
  • Knuckles (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode, and by scaling to Sir Gawain. 2 Universes)
  • Silver (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode, and by scaling to Sir Galahad. 2 Universes)
  • Blaze (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode, and by scaling to Sir Percival. 2 Universes)
  • Tails (2-C by Black Knight, scaling to Blacksmith. 2 Universes)
  • Amy Rose (2-C by Black Knight. Can participate in Battle Mode.
  • Jet (2-C by Black Knight, scaling to Sir Lamorak. 2 Universes)
  • Dr. Eggman (2-C inventions by Unleashed [2 Universes], higher with the Egg Dragoon [12 Universes])
From what I gather, the next main point of scaling is Free Riders (For reference, the only 2 titles between Black Knight and Free Riders is Unleashed and Black Knight). Iirc there are attacks that characters can do bare-handed. Quickest example coming to mind is me seeing gameplay of Vector physically swinging at nearby racers. If that's the case, here are the characters that get "2-C by Sonic Free Riders":
  • Vector (2 Universes)
  • Cream (2 Universes)
  • Wave (2 Universes)
  • Storm (2 Universes)
  • Rouge (2 Universes)
And I BELIEVE... I've gotten everyone of importance. After Free Riders is Colors, and the current AP of 12 Universes into 2-C starts with Sonic Colors due to the Nega Wisp Armor being superior to the Egg Dragoon (which Base Sonic didn't scale to).

Therefore, everybody who has scaling to 2 Universes AND to 12 Universes will need a Note on their page specifying the two ends of AP and where it starts. I'll use Vector as an example.
  • Note: Vector's 2-C rating contains 2 different ends. He scales to 2 Universes from Sonic Free Riders and onwards, and begins scaling to 12 Universes after the six-month jump in Sonic Forces.

After Colors is Generations, then Lost World, Forces, Team Sonic Racing, IDW (hasn't passed Frontiers yet), then Frontiers.
Click to expand...
I believe this message is up to date with what pages have and haven't been edited, so those who aren't noted as done and those not scratched out still need editing.
 
ShakeResounding said:
I believe this message is up to date with what pages have and haven't been edited, so those who aren't noted as done and those not scratched out still need editing.
Click to expand...
What a machine! I'll adjust the mistakes I made for Wave and Metal Sonic 3.0. Then move on to Shadow. I really struggle with the statistics value thing lol
 
ShakeResounding said:
As in Shadow-exclusive stuff? Must've been an accident. If it's just the names, yeah somebody should fix that (I'm on mobile for most of the rest of the day)
Click to expand...
Shadow starts with a Board-type Extreme Gear (Blue Star II). For a better, more comprehensive look at the abilities and capabilities of an Extreme Gear (in order to avoid redundancy in re-listing abilities), see the Extreme Gear page.


Is what is written on the P&A. Sonic doesn't have a gravity band on his ankle does he???
 
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