Perfect Chaos upgrade: "Perfection is only found surrounded in Chaos"

[Lou_change]

But it obviously would be PC for it to be given so much emphasis, specially since something would need to make MO go to Super Levels of power, copying a bunch of base forms obviously wouldn't work

I mean he is the only one copied who wasn't at the scene, but fair point.

no, Eggman was talking about MO, not MM, hence why he specified the Emeralds as their only chance and all of the teams needed to buy time for team Sonic to use said emeralds

he said metal sonic is invincible before metal sonic became MO.

Did you not saw all the people in station square cheering Sonic on? That's "we" as Tails says the phrase in response to the people cheering Sonic on, this is a basic narrative thing

I didn't see anyone besides two hedgehogs, an echidna, a fox, and a bird. Given they are in the middle of a flooded city and the cheering happens after the music starts I assumed it was part of the song.

Nope, outside the fact that Sonic literally says "this Chaos has NOTHING", aka no heart nor hate.......are you even reading what you are quoting?

I am pretty sure that is referring to the lack of heart only

it is Sonic explaining that while the Chaos of back them had "hate" he still had heart, as in, one can have both, as "heart" isbused interchangeably with Emotions for the Chaos Emeralds, so the fake Chaos not having heart makes it so that he has no hate automatically

I mean one even if Perfect Chaos had heart it was implied he only used hatred and anger to fuel his transformation. So other emotions are not really relevant.

Two, why would sonic use 'but' if he intended to say emotions? "Chaos may have had ‘hatred’ at the time, but he had emotions." There is no contrast created that requires a 'but'. Heart was probably used as a place holder for positive emotions.

Three, why would he make a distinction if it didn't matter. If the heart part is all that matters why did he talk about hatred.

given the above, you can't blame my suspicion, you literally quoted Sonic saying that the fake Chaos has "nothing" when talking about hate and heart, yet you somehow says that it does have?

I feel the statement is open to interpretation as shown by previous comments. To me it sounds more like the clone had hatred like the real thing, but lacked the other emotions.

from himself? He can go to Full Power on his own, like how we can see in Frontiers for all bosses and in Sonic Heroes

The Emeralds turns thoughta into power, he can literally power up further by just thinking, this has been accepted for a very good while now

Thats how the empowerment works? Why doesn't he just do against the 2-C enemies
i

Also don't try to deflect, we have given both a comparison and a specific magntude of power AS YOU ASKED FOR ME TO GIVE, and yet now when i point that out you completely ignore it? That doesn't sound right, now does it?

I mean you did that's why I questioned the logic behind those things. To your credit I haven't been able to provide an argument besides semantics and nothing I have said necessarily means you're wrong. Honestly I disagree mostly because the generations thing it seems weird to ignore as it previously represented one of the most obvious examples of how sonic has gotten stronger over time. Especially as the argument given for it not scaling involves an illusionary copy instead of the time base sonic actually fought the real Chaos.

......this what? Tier 4 comes from individual emeralds, which you consided and said "my bad" for even bringing it up......what about it matters here? what are you even arguing for at this point? You are all over the place

You asked why I didn't respond not why I didn't argue with you about it.

 

[Omegabronic]

he said metal sonic is invincible before metal sonic became MO.

No, he said it as he is transforming into MO, thus he is talking about MO, the form Metal turns into shortly after

I didn't see anyone besides two hedgehogs, an echidna, a fox, and a bird. Given they are in the middle of a flooded city and the cheering happens after the music starts I assumed it was part of the song.

Ok, but you are wrong on this notion, they are there, they are even dubbed

I am pretty sure that is referring to the lack of heart only

Sonic says "this Chaos has nothing" after talking about what the OG chaos had......therefore he is saying this Chaos doesn't have what the OG Chaos has, hate and heart

I mean one even if Perfect Chaos had heart it was implied he only used hatred and anger to fuel his transformation. So other emotions are not really relevant.

........cool? Why are you making a point that has nothing to do with the topic at all and is thus irrelevant?

Two, why would sonic use 'but' if he intended to say emotions? "Chaos may have had ‘hatred’ at the time, but he had emotions." There is no contrast created that requires a 'but'. Heart was probably used as a place holder for positive emotions.

To explain that Heart and Hate are not exclussive?

Three, why would he make a distinction if it didn't matter. If the heart part is all that matters why did he talk about hatred.

cause he was explaining why one is not excluding the other

Also, why this tangent when he says the clone Chaos has "nothing" thus not having hate either? More over......why argue if at most this means the clone is equal, thus making the argument for him to be 1-C work either way?

I feel the statement is open to interpretation as shown by previous comments. To me it sounds more like the clone had hatred like the real thing, but lacked the other emotions.

And it really ism't as Sonic directly says it has "nothing" in the same phrase, making it factual that it didn't had hate

As i said above.....you are making a tangent on nothing as Chaos would still be 1-C either way

Thats how the empowerment works?

are you really that out of the loop? That is the basis for why their tier varries to begin with

Why doesn't he just do against the 2-C enemies

I mean, we have no reason to assume he doesn't, we just don't have evidence in most enemies that they are fighting a Sonic growing to 1-C levels like Perfect Chaos has

I mean you did that's why I questioned the logic behind those things.

And yet now you don't respond to my explanation, thus i can assume you conceded on them?

To your credit I haven't been able to provide an argument besides semantics and nothing I have said necessarily means you're wrong.

.......so you concede that you don't really have argument, knew this, and yet you still argued just to stonewall the thread?............are you serious right now? You can see why i thought you trolling right?

Honestly I disagree mostly because the generations thing it seems weird to ignore as it previously represented one of the most obvious examples of how sonic has gotten stronger over time. Especially as the argument given for it not scaling involves an illusionary copy instead of the time base sonic actually fought the real Chaos.

1 it isn't "illusion" it is Eggman warping reality

2 said copy would have at most the same power as the original, making it work either way

3 you cannot ignore the blatant statements and showings Chaos has, Sonic's fight is an outlier, simple as that

Now please, if you will, as you said, "use semantics and not real arguments that do not disprove anything" just agree to disagree and stop, saves us both time

 

[Planck69]

Can someone give a summary of the arguments?