"Multiverse of Power" Sonic the Hedgehog (Main Continuity) Cosmology Scalling continuation

[Omegabronic]

I feel like that wasn't explained clearly enough, at least to me. From what i can understand, individual universes are 6 space-times now?

yes

 

[Theuser789]

Yes, Sonic's universe is a macrosm made of 6 universes thanks to Sonic Prime.

 

[deonment]

Crisis City is probably a non-existent world because (Small Shadow Gens spoilers): Mephiles says he "wants to exist" during his boss fight, meaning that him and all 06 elements most likely don't exist anymore

Oh that's explicit then, aight (though the "timeline" or scope of events feels kinda scuffed to me considering we don't scale white space to the current hypertimeline yet it somehow includes places that no longer exist throughout it)

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Chaos Emeralds new baseline (They should now upscale from the Paradox Prism,

This is consistant with the scaling we currently accept for the baseline of 7 Chaos Emeralds, so it should be fine to aply for now even though I disagree with it.

Now is time to talk about the high-five feat. Td;Dr, Sonic went fast enough to stay in multiple places at once, being able to even touch himself when in different positions, it couldn't have simply been afterimage creation via speed, because the two Shatter Sonics had a physical impact from touching one another. And it's clear it's from speed and not via hax due to Sonic's dialogue hyping his speed up and the explanation for the power up being only a stat amp. So, yeah... Infinite Speed via high-fiving yourself. And because we know it takes place some time Post-Advance 3, and Sonic couldn't believe a world where Eggman had won, puts this show as happening before Sonic Forces, therefore superiority statements by late Frontiers should upscale his speed from it.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhh......... Screw it. Agree. Just barely though. The fact that the Prism has duplication abillities as shown with Nine and that Sonic is shown to have a conversation with his "clones", with Shadow responding "Finally a Sonic I can agree with" doesn't sit right with me, but Nine does have technology to use the Prism in creative ways that Sonic lacks, and the whole point the amp was to give him more power and speed, which, as you said, is consistant with how the Chaos Council uses it. It's likely that Sonic talking to himself was just his usual quippy banter.

Perception Manipulation (Can slow down his perception enough to see those who were comparable to him in snail's pace)

As I said in private, the toll that using this abillity takes on Sonic's stamina needs to be mentionned either in the abillity's description or in Sonic's weaknesses section. The Imgur video linked here convinently cuts the part where Sonic leans on the door for a few seconds to catch his breath. This of course makes perfect sense since this abillity having no drawback would give Sonic 0 reason not to spam the shit out of it like he does with his speed amps.

Boscage Maze:

Retractable Claws & Surface Scaling (Gains claws that allows him to better climb and lock on surfaces)
Underground Mobility (Can use his claws to quickly dig holes and traverse underground)

The Grim:

Forcefield & Platform creation (Shown here) Pretty important addition, as I brought up.

Capable to outpace attacks from Solaris, whose attacks are shown to be throughout all of time itself due to them appearing in the past, present, and future alike, with the deity existing in all time periods simultaneously, thus being able to see all of Sonic's future movements, with the hedgehog still being able to surprise the deity with a charged attack.... (this scales to Shadow and Silver as well, and will be accompanied by the following: Note: Due to the nature of Solaris' existence, he would already be in every moment of the future, present and past at once, making it so that every possible move Sonic could do, time traveling or not, would already have happened by Solaris' perspective, making it the equivalent of him having a constant gaze on every possible movement Sonic would ever do, regardless if he choose differently, making the act of dodging him and surprising him by being able to hit him a skill feat as well and not purely speed)

This is a speed and hax feat. I'm with the others on this one.

Up to Above baseline Low Complex Multiversal scope using Chaos Control (Should be superior to Base Eggman and Primordial Form Time Eater, which can respectively travel reach White Space and Time Eater's Lair)

You should explain why Chaos Control's range is superior to base Eggman and Primordial Time Eater to avoid confusion

Agree with the rest aside from a few details I can work out later.

 

[JJSliderman]

Yeah ooc it seems really weird to have base Sonic’s range be above the TE, it’s only when mentioning that Eggman somehow busted out on his own with no technology it makes sense (and even then there’s no direct comparison with CC)

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

• I disagree with using the Twitter description as support for an infinite universe. That's just clearly non-literal.
• I find the arguments for the Rush feat being a shared feat between the Chaos & Sol Emeralds to be stronger, so I agree 2-Cs would be 6 universes.
• The Solaris feat should just be considered speed, not skill

Agree with everything else.

 

[Omegabronic]

Yeah ooc it seems really weird to have base Sonic’s range be above the TE, it’s only when mentioning that Eggman somehow busted out on his own with no technology it makes sense (and even then there’s no direct comparison with CC)

Chaos Emeralds = Ultimate power that can do anything........it is pretty clear tbh

 

[Omegabronic]

.

• I find the arguments for the Rush feat being a shared feat between the Chaos & Sol Emeralds to be stronger, so I agree 2-Cs would be 6 universes.

That would still be 12, math doesn't work like that for tier 2

 

[JJSliderman]

Each emeralds set only moves its own macrocosm, though.

 

[Omegabronic]

Each emeralds set only moves its own macrocosm, though.

nope, the feat of them together is just an explosion, there is no moving of the universes there, besides even if it was.........the math still doesn't work that way here

this isn't even up to discussion, the feat in question is already 2-C for that reason, this is doing nothing but upgrade the value, the logic is the same

 

[Spinoirr]

nope, the feat of them together is just an explosion, there is no moving of the universes there, besides even if it was.........the math still doesn't work that way here

this isn't even up to discussion, the feat in question is already 2-C for that reason, this is doing nothing but upgrade the value, the logic is the same

Okay but if it's already 2-C, then why is base sonic low 2-C huh?

Seems to me he doesn't scale to it in base

 

[JJSliderman]

nope, the feat of them together is just an explosion, there is no moving of the universes there, besides even if it was.........the math still doesn't work that way here

this isn't even up to discussion, the feat in question is already 2-C for that reason, this is doing nothing but upgrade the value, the logic is the same

Problem is it only says the “world” will collapse with them in resonance, it doesn’t specify both universes being destroyed by the combination explosion. Even throughout the game it’s stated that the main reason both worlds will be destroyed, is because they cannot coexist in the same space, not anything the Emeralds do directly.

 

[Omegabronic]

Problem is it only says the “world” will collapse with them in resonance, it doesn’t specify both universes being destroyed by the combination explosion.

the intention is clear

sides, the earlier feat is.....already 12 universes in potency, as the Sol emeralds were severely affecting the space time of the Prime World while also affecting the Sol Dimension

Even throughout the game it’s stated that the main reason both worlds will be destroyed, is because they cannot coexist in the same space, not anything the Emeralds do directly.

it....DIRECTLY because the Sol Emeralds are forcefully affecting the space time of time and forcing a fusion between them, this here is just lying about the feat

again, the feat would at worst stay the same, but it would still need to be upgrade as the universes were accepted as bigger, this isn't up to contention in this thread

 

[Brogeefrong]

If 12 Universes are accepted for the Baseline for The Chaos Emeralds, I think it should be noted as "At Most 12 Universes"

Btw since some of base cast's current scaling comes from Low end Super forms, shouldnt base cast also be 12 Universes?

 

[Omegabronic]

If 12 Universes are accepted for the Baseline for The Chaos Emeralds, I think it should be noted as "At Most 12 Universes"

Btw since some of base cast's current scaling comes from Low end Super forms, shouldnt base cast also be 12 Universes?

....have you saw the Sonic Sandbox in the OP?

 

[Brogeefrong]

oops

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Sonic might be super genius BIQ hahah

 

[JJSliderman]

the intention is clear

sides, the earlier feat is.....already 12 universes in potency, as the Sol emeralds were severely affecting the space time of the Prime World while also affecting the Sol Dimension

…Because the sol dimension was fusing with the prime dimension, that wasn’t the sol emeralds distorting the Prime World.

it....DIRECTLY because the Sol Emeralds are forcefully affecting the space time of time and forcing a fusion between them, this here is just lying about the feat

again, the feat would at worst stay the same, but it would still need to be upgrade as the universes were accepted as bigger, this isn't up to contention in this thread

They’re forcing a fusion by moving one universe into another, not moving both into each other. The Sol Emeralds by themselves only affect one universe.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Really quick thing here about the 6-12 universe thing since I see some people confused. Omega isn't saying Base would be 12 Uni at all throughout the scaling chain, they would stay at 6 Uni. He's arguing only Supers would scale to the 12 universes due to 2x macrocosm thing (as Blaze and Sonic's worlds are directly parallel).

Base Cast Post-Advance 3/Early Modern Era (6 Universes) < Super's New Baseline (12 Universes). Though I'm moreso neutral. I don't think Omega plans to make them 12 Uni via Perfect Chaos, I'd argue outlier since the Otherworld Perfect Chaos can one-shot Post-Forces Modern Sonic.

Btw, this isn't the most on-topic, but Modern Sonic's AP description needs to be adjusted in his first key. I don't think the Egg Cerberus statement shows outright superiority due to the finicky "most terrible" statement or whatever it is. It should be removed, and likely entirely replaced with the Paradox Prism feat imo.

 

[Omegabronic]

…Because the sol dimension was fusing with the prime dimension, that wasn’t the sol emeralds distorting the Prime World.

which was a procress made entire via the Sol Emeralds, aka they were the ones distorting both world

They’re forcing a fusion by moving one universe into another, not moving both into each other.

they are forcing a fusion, period, that qualifies as significantly affecting both universes

again, this feat is already accepted as such, only the AP would change, but this is ALREADY accepted

The Sol Emeralds by themselves only affect one universe.

they are literally affecting 2, the Sol Dimension didn't started to get in yet, as when that happens the Exeption is shown, and only then

Really quick thing here about the 6-12 universe thing since I see some people confused. Omega isn't saying Base would be 12 Uni at all throughout the scaling chain, they would stay at 6 Uni. He's arguing only Supers would scale to the 12 universes due to 2x macrocosm thing (as Blaze and Sonic's worlds are directly parallel).

yeah, no? like, you are right about Supers new baseline........which we scaled to base Modern Era cast via several statements of Superiority over Baseline Super level foes as of the Modern era

Base Cast Post-Advance 3/Early Modern Era (6 Universes) < Super's New Baseline (12 Universes). Though I'm moreso neutral. I don't think Omega plans to make them 12 Uni via Perfect Chaos, I'd argue outlier since the Otherworld Perfect Chaos can one-shot Post-Forces Modern Sonic.

perfect Chaos i will upgrade later, so relax on that for now, they have other things scalling them to that level outside of the water boy anyway

Btw, this isn't the most on-topic, but Modern Sonic's AP description needs to be adjusted in his first key. I don't think the Egg Cerberus statement shows outright superiority due to the finicky "most terrible" statement or whatever it is. It should be removed, and likely entirely replaced with the Paradox Prism feat imo.

another thread, i don't really see a problem with it right now for me to add yet another thing to this big thread

 

[Ghengiroo115]

Is the Otherworld Perfect Chaos not like a hypothetical modern version? Genuine question as I haven’t read the Otherworld Comedy stuff and assumed it was like if the Chaos 0 Phantom clone went Perfect or something. (Not necessarily literally that, but functionally the same thing power-wise)

 

[JJSliderman]

Yeah I just disagree with the sol emeralds scaling to both macrocosms baseline, but if it’s accepted then I’ll prolly bring it up in some other thread.

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Chaos Emeralds = Ultimate power that can do anything........it is pretty clear tbh

So they just grant everyone the best hax in the verse? Not how that works

Really quick thing here about the 6-12 universe thing since I see some people confused. Omega isn't saying Base would be 12 Uni at all throughout the scaling chain, they would stay at 6 Uni. He's arguing only Supers would scale to the 12 universes due to 2x macrocosm thing (as Blaze and Sonic's worlds are directly parallel).

Well, why is he not? If the new Emerald baseline is 12 universes, then base modern Sonic should be 12 universes via defeating Perfect Chaos and machines that upscale from the Super Egg Robot.

Come to think of it, I'm currently neutral on whether the baseline of the emeralds should be 6 or 12 times universal. Still leaning towards Omega's interpretation of things since he presents more evidence than anyone else, and I guess it is technically already accepted, so maybe I should just agree for the time being and wait for JJ to make adjustments as he says he will.

Base Cast Post-Advance 3/Early Modern Era (6 Universes) < Super's New Baseline (12 Universes). Though I'm moreso neutral. I don't think Omega plans to make them 12 Uni via Perfect Chaos, I'd argue outlier since the Otherworld Perfect Chaos can one-shot Post-Forces Modern Sonic.

We already know Modern Chaos is stronger than Adventure Chaos because of Forces, so Modern Perfect Chaos one-shotting post-Forces Sonic is not an outlier. I thought we went over this.

I don't think the Egg Cerberus statement shows outright superiority due to the finicky "most terrible" statement or whatever it is. It should be removed, and likely entirely replaced with the Paradox Prism feat imo.

Agreed. I plan to downgrade Egg Cerberus, Egg Wyvern, and the pre-Secret Rings base cast later down the line, but here is not the place for it. As of right now, the Egg Cerberus statement is accepted as valid, so Omega is free to use it if he wants. Although the Paradox Prism feat definitely needs to also be included.

 

[Omegabronic]

Yeah I just disagree with the sol emeralds scaling to both macrocosms baseline, but if it’s accepted then I’ll prolly bring it up in some other thread.

even without that, they would still scale to 12 Universe due to being 2x weaker than the combined feat of both Chaos and Sol Emeralds, so that doesn't really change anything

So they just grant everyone the best hax in the verse? Not how that works

if it is a hax they also do, then yes

Well, why is he not? If the new Emerald baseline is 12 universes, then base modern Sonic should be 12 universes via defeating Perfect Chaos and machines that upscale from the Super Egg Robot.

this

Come to think of it, I'm currently neutral on whether the baseline of the emeralds should be 6 or 12 times universal. Still leaning towards Omega's interpretation of things since he presents more evidence than anyone else, and I guess it is technically already accepted, so maybe I should just agree for the time being and wait for JJ to make adjustments as he says he will.

pretty much this, it is LITERALLY already accepted, all i am doing is making it the Baseline for the Emeralds

Agreed. I plan to downgrade Egg Cerberus, Egg Wyvern, and the pre-Secret Rings base cast later down the line, but here is not the place for it. As of right now, the Egg Cerberus statement is accepted as valid, so Omega is free to use it if he wants. Although the Paradox Prism feat definitely needs to also be included.

it is included, so no worries about that

 

[JJSliderman]

even without that, they would still scale to 12 Universe due to being 2x weaker than the combined feat of both Chaos and Sol Emeralds, so that doesn't really change anything

The combined Chaos and Sol Emeralds don’t have a feat of destroying both macrocosms, you already brought up that the worlds hadn’t merged yet because the Exception wasn’t present, so when Eggman brings up the Emerald resonance there’s nothing directly confirming he’s referring to both macrocosms being destroyed by said resonance, as opposed to then being destroyed by virtue of two universes not being able to occupy the same space (a natural phenomenon not directly tied to the Emeralds)

 

[Omegabronic]

The combined Chaos and Sol Emeralds don’t have a feat of destroying both macrocosms, you already brought up that the worlds hadn’t merged yet because the Exception wasn’t present, so when Eggman brings up the Emerald resonance there’s nothing directly confirming he’s referring to both macrocosms being destroyed by said resonance

yeah it is since "world" can be plural here since japanese doesn't have direct plurals and work by context, since they were talking about the 2 dimensions there, the context would signify this

, as opposed to then being destroyed by virtue of two universes not being able to occupy the same space (a natural phenomenon not directly tied to the Emeralds)

destroying or not, the 2 Emeralds would be affected 2 universes, thus still scalling regardless, it doesn't matter if they didn't destroy them yet, they significantly affecting 2 Universes, distorting the space time of both and forcing a fusion, it is affecting both no matter how you slice it

and again, all of this about the feat is ALREADY ACCEPTED, all i am doing is making this a baseline of 7 Emeralds, that is all, there NOTHING to discuss here about this on this thread outside of it being a Baseline, all else is ALREADY ACCEPTED about the feat in question

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Yeah. If it's accepted, then it's time to move on. We have a lot to tackle here, so you can adress this next time JJ. I might be on your side once you do.

 

[JJSliderman]

Fine, fine.

 

[Omegabronic]

I find the arguments for the Rush feat being a shared feat between the Chaos & Sol Emeralds to be stronger, so I agree 2-Cs would be 6 universes.

being a shared feat still makes the indivdual ones only scale to half 12 Universes in 2-C, which is still 12 Universes 2-C as per how the tier works

edited a new part of the OP to explain this better, so please give it a read

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

being a shared feat still makes the indivdual ones only scale to half 12 Universes in 2-C, which is still 12 Universes 2-C as per how the tier works

edited a new part of the OP to explain this better, so please give it a read

Ah. If it's already accepted as 12 universes then so be it.

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Speaking of Infinite speed, wasn't Clover planning on an Infinite speed downgrade for base cast? What happened to that?

 

[Omegabronic]

Speaking of Infinite speed, wasn't Clover planning on an Infinite speed downgrade for base cast? What happened to that?

....why not ask this in the general discussion thread?

 

[Omegabronic]

bump

 

[Remus1998]

we still debating the number of universes they scale to?

 

[JJSliderman]

No, I’ll save that for another time

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Bump

 

[McFriesGuy075]

Looking at the profile again, i have some things to say.

I disagree with Super Sonic & Starfall having access to Power Boost, he has never been shown using it in his Super form or Starfall Super form (Wouldn't even be possible due to requiring max rings, whereas a Super form consumes them overtime), this is like a hypothetical modern Hyper Sonic case. Not to mention having "even higher still" on the profile sounding kinda bad.

The cutscenes section of the profile is unfinished. It only has Unleashed in it, while there are many non-unleashed cutscenes there.

There's also plenty of capitalization issues and some words being cut off, but it's not that big of an issue.

 

[Theuser789]

There's also plenty of capitalization issues and some words being cut off, but it's not that big of an issue.

Since it's a sandbox, you or anyone could fix grammar issues if you see anything.

 

[Omegabronic]

Looking at the profile again, i have some things to say.

I disagree with Super Sonic & Starfall having access to Power Boost, he has never been shown using it in his Super form or Starfall Super form (Wouldn't even be possible due to requiring max rings, whereas a Super form consumes them overtime),

Base Form has = Super Form has as it is merely a transformation of the former

Rings have cannonically no connection with Super Forms.......we don't need to go throigh this again

this is like a hypothetical modern Hyper Sonic case.

no? Base Sonic can, why would Super, who is just Base form + stuff, not be able to?

Not to mention having "even higher still" on the profile sounding kinda bad.

.....find me a good substitute and i will put it

The cutscenes section of the profile is unfinished. It only has Unleashed in it, while there are many non-unleashed cutscenes there.

will be fixed on releae

There's also plenty of capitalization issues and some words being cut off, but it's not that big of an issue.

Also be fixed.....if one points them out

 

[Peptocoptr27]

Rings have cannonically no connection with Super Forms.......we don't need to go throigh this again

I find that questionnable now that rings and their effects are canon, but that's for another thread.