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Questioning the legitimacy of High 6-A Devil May Cry
- Thread starter CinCameron20
- Start date
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No it doesn't, it dissipates and then disappears. The limited animation and frankly terrible quality of the footage shown makes it clear that some liberties were taken. Even shit like One Punch Man has clouds just "stop" after dissipating.
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I'm agree with Mashu and Reb right now.
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When Saitama kills the Sea King the clouds part in like less than a second and then hit a dead stop.Sins32 said:
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I'm curious actually. Why would an aftereffect caused by opening a portal scale to your AP?
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Because the portal was created with Abigail's power.Andytrenom said:
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I do agree with Matt and Reb on the feat being legit, but I don't know if it scales to AP
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Because the portal was produced by Abigail in his attempt to invade the Human World. Creating portals absolutely takes power in Devil May Cry. Both Sparda and Mundus need effort to open / seal long-term portals between the Human World and the Demon World.
Elder Scrolls is another series where opening portals for prolongued amount of times is outright stated to take a tremendous amount of energy.
Elder Scrolls is another series where opening portals for prolongued amount of times is outright stated to take a tremendous amount of energy.
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Yes, he punched DSK so hard rain stopped falling in several city blocks for several minutes.Matthew Schroeder said:
On topic - I agree with Matt others for now.
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Seems like a consensus.
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I think there will be once Kepekley replies.Matthew Schroeder said:
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Still think we should do a recalc just to be sureUgarik said:
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@Schnee I see no harm in doing that.
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I'm pretty sure we have been over this already
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I've asked Ugarik about the current calculation, and he said that the clouds' volume was overestimated, so the actual result should be lower, yet still in High 6-A.
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To be frank, I actually agree with the intention of the OP - that the feat is super questionable and even taken at face value it isn't High 6-A. I will detail why soon, but I was discussing it on one Discord with a few people.
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Yes, the feat is apparently lower than it currently is, although I'd like to see your points.
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1. The feat was performed by Sid, who at max generosity only receives a fraction of the power of the actual Abigail, since he rejected his humanity & we can compare it to Arkham and Alan possessing Sparda. They wouldn't come even to a fraction of the actual Sparda with what they got from his power. To top it off, this feat could be argued to be casual.
Casual High 6-A with 1/x fraction of the actual Abigail's powers who rival Mundus is definitely an outlier, no questions asked. Mundus's best feat other than this is 6-C via his death exploding Mallet Island, which in itself is being generous due to how long it took, and the other questionably tier 7 feat is Sparda hammering the Temen Ni Gru into the ground and being "implied" to be able to cause large damage to the planet if he hadn't been careful, nevermind the faulty translation and the stretching to the moon that is required to get that interpretation out of the existing statement.
2. The assumption of cloud movement is, in and out of itself, completely baseless. Let's look at the actual scene - the portal expands and suddenly there are no longer clouds, and that's it. Nevermind the fact that none of the clouds that were outside of that range even moved a little bit to signify kinetic energy - if we're assuming this feat is legitimate, then the best results you can get from it is assuming it dissipated the clouds by vaporizing them - and that could arguably not even be 6-C considering how pitiful cloud density without air taken into account is.
3. How massively inconsistent the visuals are in this situation. We see the portal expanding a little, and glowing to about multi-city block wide levels of size. Then, in the very next second, we see the view from space of what is supposed to be the exact same scene - namely, a multi-city block wide portal - before it expands to its "continental" size. This would imply the portal, in a single nanosecond, went from multi-city block size to country sizes, and then shrunk back up again. The rest of the episode doesn't even imply anything like that ever again.
3b. Assuming that what happened was anything related to the energy dissipating the clouds to begin with. Going by the scene, it can be easily assumed that the portal merely consumed the clouds above the area into the Demon World, which wouldn't scale to Abigail at all, or that it even merely "erased" the clouds as it expanded along, since it's a spatial rift, none of which would, again, scale to Abigail. But this is a secondary point to 3.
All of this puts a doubt into the feat, and even taking it at the uttermost face value, it wouldn't be anywhere close to High 6-A.
Calc
5.9440958885182637e12*0.0005kg/m┬│ = 2972047944.26kg
So the feat isn't High 6-A at all. Now we need to get that Mallet Island feat looked at, sorry, because we're looking at quite the downgrade here until DMC5 rolls out.
Casual High 6-A with 1/x fraction of the actual Abigail's powers who rival Mundus is definitely an outlier, no questions asked. Mundus's best feat other than this is 6-C via his death exploding Mallet Island, which in itself is being generous due to how long it took, and the other questionably tier 7 feat is Sparda hammering the Temen Ni Gru into the ground and being "implied" to be able to cause large damage to the planet if he hadn't been careful, nevermind the faulty translation and the stretching to the moon that is required to get that interpretation out of the existing statement.
2. The assumption of cloud movement is, in and out of itself, completely baseless. Let's look at the actual scene - the portal expands and suddenly there are no longer clouds, and that's it. Nevermind the fact that none of the clouds that were outside of that range even moved a little bit to signify kinetic energy - if we're assuming this feat is legitimate, then the best results you can get from it is assuming it dissipated the clouds by vaporizing them - and that could arguably not even be 6-C considering how pitiful cloud density without air taken into account is.
3. How massively inconsistent the visuals are in this situation. We see the portal expanding a little, and glowing to about multi-city block wide levels of size. Then, in the very next second, we see the view from space of what is supposed to be the exact same scene - namely, a multi-city block wide portal - before it expands to its "continental" size. This would imply the portal, in a single nanosecond, went from multi-city block size to country sizes, and then shrunk back up again. The rest of the episode doesn't even imply anything like that ever again.
3b. Assuming that what happened was anything related to the energy dissipating the clouds to begin with. Going by the scene, it can be easily assumed that the portal merely consumed the clouds above the area into the Demon World, which wouldn't scale to Abigail at all, or that it even merely "erased" the clouds as it expanded along, since it's a spatial rift, none of which would, again, scale to Abigail. But this is a secondary point to 3.
All of this puts a doubt into the feat, and even taking it at the uttermost face value, it wouldn't be anywhere close to High 6-A.
Calc
5.9440958885182637e12*0.0005kg/m┬│ = 2972047944.26kg
- Vaporization = 2972047944.26*2264760 = 6.73e15 joules or ~1.6 megatons of TNT.
So the feat isn't High 6-A at all. Now we need to get that Mallet Island feat looked at, sorry, because we're looking at quite the downgrade here until DMC5 rolls out.
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@Kepek - On the bright side, After personally going through DMC5 myself, there will certainly be upgrades from 7-B to a considerably higher tier, but I will not discuss the matter until after the game is released in order to prevent spoilers of massive proportions.
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Didn't you say the only feat of interest was 7-A?CinCameron20 said:
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@Sparda - On the low end scale it would be Mountain+, but I would need help with the High end value, as it would be anywhere from High 7-A+ (touching 6-C) to High 6-C+. That's all I'll say. Consider it a little teaser for what's to come in a few days.
@Dark - I hope you're kidding about saying that tbh.
@Dark - I hope you're kidding about saying that tbh.
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@Kepek - Btw, thank you for your input. I was starting to get fed up with this one-sided assault on my points with little to no rebuttals.
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Also, Mallet Island's explosion would easily be high end tier 7 to possibly low end Island level (The island is fairly small, but not THAT small), but the sad thing is that it can't scale to anyone since:
1) It took so long to occur
2) Heavily implied to have the potential to kill Dante and Trish, who both had to get out of there before it was too late.
3) Anything caught within the blast radius that was alive is certainly not alive now (in b4 someone says "Nelo Angelo aka Vergil was still there!")
1) It took so long to occur
2) Heavily implied to have the potential to kill Dante and Trish, who both had to get out of there before it was too late.
3) Anything caught within the blast radius that was alive is certainly not alive now (in b4 someone says "Nelo Angelo aka Vergil was still there!")
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I bet it could get okay results under the assumption that Mundus kept it afloat, thereby validating GPE
but I'm not sure that's a reasonable assumption
Also, said people are vastly inferior to Mundus in base form anyways. Dante could only fight them via Sparda Devil Trigger, so, using the collapse of it killing them would more invalidate low tier ratings, but it's simple PIS.
but I'm not sure that's a reasonable assumption
Also, said people are vastly inferior to Mundus in base form anyways. Dante could only fight them via Sparda Devil Trigger, so, using the collapse of it killing them would more invalidate low tier ratings, but it's simple PIS.
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Wait Wha?CinCameron20 said:
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Did you get an early copy of the game or something?CinCameron20 said:
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There are smaller stores that do that under the table just as a way to get customers on their side.
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I don't have an early copy, but a friend of mine does, and he was kind enough to let me play it after he unlocked the harder difficulties. But that's off topic.
What matters is that this High 6-A calc seems to be finally going under, and we can start focusing on a number of feats from DMC1, 2, 3, 4 and even in the anime that were considered low-priority considering this feat scaled to most character.
What matters is that this High 6-A calc seems to be finally going under, and we can start focusing on a number of feats from DMC1, 2, 3, 4 and even in the anime that were considered low-priority considering this feat scaled to most character.
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Ahh true.Schnee One said:
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"assault on my points" means "my arguments were being targeted". I was getting fed up because no one was rebutting my points.
They were just refused, and when I pointed out the clouds did not move, thus no KE was made (which is the whole point of the calc), they went on to debate that it was dissipating, which is completely different from finding a KE value and would yield different results (though I did not expect it to drop to 1.6 Megatons. I expected much higher than that, to be honest).
When I claimed it was an outlier (exactly a ratio of 6.3 [I forgot the exact value, but I heard it was around base-line City level] to ~172,400,000,000 when compared), they used "They are far stronger than Griffon" as an argument, when that doesn't justify a multiplication of 27,365,079,365.1 in AP when the verse's primary and majority of feats range in tier 8 and barely any tier 7 (and this includes the high tiers such as Abigail's beams, Mundus' meteorites and Island bust, Dante's feats, Vergil's feats, and so on).
I also went on to point out that opening a portal resulted in the clouds disappearing, NOT Abigail himself, and they both said "since Abigail opened the portal, he moved the clouds", but that was reality warping, and would require a different level of energy to perform (More or less doesn't matter. Abigail himself didn't remove the clouds, short and simple). It's like if someone opened a portal and a strong warrior came through and fought on their behalf, and you scaled the portal creator to the warrior because the warrior was a product of their power, when we normally separate such things in scaling.
They were just refused, and when I pointed out the clouds did not move, thus no KE was made (which is the whole point of the calc), they went on to debate that it was dissipating, which is completely different from finding a KE value and would yield different results (though I did not expect it to drop to 1.6 Megatons. I expected much higher than that, to be honest).
When I claimed it was an outlier (exactly a ratio of 6.3 [I forgot the exact value, but I heard it was around base-line City level] to ~172,400,000,000 when compared), they used "They are far stronger than Griffon" as an argument, when that doesn't justify a multiplication of 27,365,079,365.1 in AP when the verse's primary and majority of feats range in tier 8 and barely any tier 7 (and this includes the high tiers such as Abigail's beams, Mundus' meteorites and Island bust, Dante's feats, Vergil's feats, and so on).
I also went on to point out that opening a portal resulted in the clouds disappearing, NOT Abigail himself, and they both said "since Abigail opened the portal, he moved the clouds", but that was reality warping, and would require a different level of energy to perform (More or less doesn't matter. Abigail himself didn't remove the clouds, short and simple). It's like if someone opened a portal and a strong warrior came through and fought on their behalf, and you scaled the portal creator to the warrior because the warrior was a product of their power, when we normally separate such things in scaling.
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