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There isnt any proof to say it was meant the statement in a political manner or such either,Urizen whole goal was get better then Dante,in dmc3 his goal was taking over the demon world
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Questioning the legitimacy of High 6-A Devil May Cry
- Thread starter CinCameron20
- Start date
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@Ogbuna - "Shaking the foundations of the world" not "shaking the world itself". Phrasing suggests something vastly different from what you guys are trying to push for. You saying i'm "being debunked by the article" means nothing when that's incorrect. The only one using head-canon here is anyone outright trying to say that the statement suggests Urizen can literally shake the planet. Unsupported unless WoG or another reliable source suggests otherwise.
@Die - Yes but they didn't. Urizen was basically stated to completely surpass both of them due to eating the fruit (with his already high level of power from taking Nero's Arm, connecting himself to the Tree to siphon its power as it drank blood. In fact, Base Urizen possibly fully scales to the tree, as it only started moving dramatically after he separated himself from it, so its growth was not being hindered by him). The same argument can be made for Urizen though, considering he also failed and lost to Dante, but it can hardly be put against him considering Dante was already > Sparda by DMC2/4, and low-diff'd Mundus in their 2nd encounter even before that, then got even stronger after absorbing the Sparda sword.
Only point I'm trying to make is that Nico is suggesting that Urizen is so powerful that "King of the Demon/Underworld means nothing", basically saying he has far surpassed all of the previous Demon World rulers such as Argosax, Mundus, and characters like Abigail. All of them mean nothing (though this means little imo since he was already > Dante before eating the fruit).
@Die - Yes but they didn't. Urizen was basically stated to completely surpass both of them due to eating the fruit (with his already high level of power from taking Nero's Arm, connecting himself to the Tree to siphon its power as it drank blood. In fact, Base Urizen possibly fully scales to the tree, as it only started moving dramatically after he separated himself from it, so its growth was not being hindered by him). The same argument can be made for Urizen though, considering he also failed and lost to Dante, but it can hardly be put against him considering Dante was already > Sparda by DMC2/4, and low-diff'd Mundus in their 2nd encounter even before that, then got even stronger after absorbing the Sparda sword.
Only point I'm trying to make is that Nico is suggesting that Urizen is so powerful that "King of the Demon/Underworld means nothing", basically saying he has far surpassed all of the previous Demon World rulers such as Argosax, Mundus, and characters like Abigail. All of them mean nothing (though this means little imo since he was already > Dante before eating the fruit).
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I am not sure how taking over the whole world or the demon world translates into shaking it's fundations. That sounds much more like a metaphor than any sort of literal he would shake the whole world statement.
I mean, even demon fodder trivialized armed soldiers. I honestly feel that trying to rely on every word of common grandiose statements like this is pushing it too much without anything else that gives support. Is it so hard to miss that "such supreme power would let him **** around with common sense" kind of thing in these lines? No, I am not saying that's what the line implies, but that's the general gist of it. Unless, and I would love anyone to tell me this, someone could explain to me when did Nico get an internalized scouter to tell the level of power needed to make the entire planet shake in a quake, and see who has that level of power.
I mean, even demon fodder trivialized armed soldiers. I honestly feel that trying to rely on every word of common grandiose statements like this is pushing it too much without anything else that gives support. Is it so hard to miss that "such supreme power would let him **** around with common sense" kind of thing in these lines? No, I am not saying that's what the line implies, but that's the general gist of it. Unless, and I would love anyone to tell me this, someone could explain to me when did Nico get an internalized scouter to tell the level of power needed to make the entire planet shake in a quake, and see who has that level of power.
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How about asking the guys that worked on the game for clarification along other stuff regarding devil may cry,this should be a solution to most franchises when it comes to certain things we dont know much,ask the one behind it
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How would the tiers for urizen be?
-Pre-fruit (At least 7-A, likely 6-C): More powerful than Mundus and effortlessly defeated Dante, who had previously defeated Argosax.
-Post-fruit (Low 6-B): He gave a fight to Sin DT Dante.
-Pre-fruit (At least 7-A, likely 6-C): More powerful than Mundus and effortlessly defeated Dante, who had previously defeated Argosax.
-Post-fruit (Low 6-B): He gave a fight to Sin DT Dante.
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@ - LSirLancelotDuLacl -They'd probably argue "She is a genius". They already tried to suggest "she is knowledgeable about the verse she is in" as an argument already. There's literally no way for her to fully comprehend how strong Urizen is (she never once saw the guy AT ALL. She only stood on the tree as it was moving, shaking and breaking parts of the suspended city blocks).
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@Camilopezo - Low 6-B comes from suggested planet shaking. That's not accepted (yet, if ever).
6-C from what, exactly? It'd be "At least 7-A, likely higher"
6-C from what, exactly? It'd be "At least 7-A, likely higher"
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Just like a buch of other characters from other verses, dunno why DMC is looked bad just for doingthe the same.CinCameron20 said:
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Because of the fact that it would be contested by no one ever showing a similar feat and feats way, way lower being much more consistent?
I don't think I need to explain how little sense it makes to battle a 3-A and even surpass him, then just go and have trouble with 'comparable' 7-As.
I don't think I need to explain how little sense it makes to battle a 3-A and even surpass him, then just go and have trouble with 'comparable' 7-As.
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Tbf Dante only had trouble with 7-As when he was still considered weaker than Mundus and Sparda and when that supposedly comparable 7-A wasn't at full strength and controlled by a different person entirely.
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There's a fault in your logic. The 7-As you are referring to are 7-A via scaling. Were 3-A to be valid, they would be 3-A as well.LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
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Low-balls (7-A and so on) and high-balls (3-A, etc), anyway, it doesn't matter.
Also, what is being disscused here?
Also, what is being disscused here?
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Last I saw, or remembered, the effects of any other attacks or feats from any other characters not Mundus would be placed around that range (unless there's some other feat I do not know or Cin's calc gets accepted).RebubleUselet said:
The only validity in 3-A would be scaling, while everything else shown would be closer to Tier 7 - maybe 6.
... Also, completely tangential, but does anyone else have the issue that messages say "18 hours ago" or some unnecessarily long time despite it being sent minutes ago?
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Just read the novel twice. And it completely debunks these downplay. Search up " concept" after u download DMC2 novel there should be a sesrch bar. It completely debunks these downplays by a landslide
Yeah, look. I've got to be honest with you. I hate throwing around the word outlier, especially in DMC where it is basically just used as an excuse to get out of upgrades nowadays, but the Beastheads being Low 2-C like you've claimed is practically the definition of an outlier. Even if we assume literally every potential feat to be correct and all of them are based off of the greatest possible estimates, at best we have a 3-A feat from Mundus. They may seem relatively close in tier, but the difference between 3-A and Low 2-C is practically infinite. And Mundus is supposed to be stronger than the Beastheads. I hate to ever say things definitively, but unless DMC6 comes out in the future with a billion timeline level feats then there is an absolute zilch chance that DMC would ever get upgraded to Low 2-C.
Wwhy would it be an outlier? Nothing contradicts this feat at all. It clearly shows what the scaling would be. Instead of saying it was an outlier BECAUSE reasons then you got to show me what the outlier would be. It clearly scales mundus above beastheads due to creating them and able to perform a feat higher than universal itself.
Yeah, look. I've got to be honest with you. I hate throwing around the word outlier, especially in DMC where it is basically just used as an excuse to get out of upgrades nowadays, but the Beastheads being Low 2-C like you've claimed is practically the definition of an outlier. Even if we assume literally every potential feat to be correct and all of them are based off of the greatest possible estimates, at best we have a 3-A feat from Mundus. They may seem relatively close in tier, but the difference between 3-A and Low 2-C is practically infinite. And Mundus is supposed to be stronger than the Beastheads. I hate to ever say things definitively, but unless DMC6 comes out in the future with a billion timeline level feats then there is an absolute zilch chance that DMC would ever get upgraded to Low 2-C.
Wwhy would it be an outlier? Nothing contradicts this feat at all. It clearly shows what the scaling would be. Instead of saying it was an outlier BECAUSE reasons then you got to show me what the outlier would be. It clearly scales mundus above beastheads due to creating them and able to perform a feat higher than universal itself.
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Devil May Cry, Enemy File — Sargasso: "They hide between the edges of the sea and the Underworld. They wait for stray wanderers and feast on them. The spirits of the victims are destined to wander the endless sea of the Underworld."
Underworld is infinite in size
Underworld is infinite in size
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You didn't really acknowledge my points there. The outlier is the Beasthead's being Low 2-C. Because Mundus' greatest feat he's ever shown was a 3-A feat, and Low 2-C is practically infinitely beyond 3-A despite them looking sort of like similar tiers. I'm willing to believe that Mundus is 3-A, but to assume that the Beastheads are Low 2-C is to say that Mundus is also at least Low 2-C, and even Mundus' most extreme feats do not even begin to touch Low 2-C. The definition of an outlier has to do with the feat in question being irreconcilably inconsistent with what's shown of how powerful a character is, and Mundus being Low 2-C based on scaling is undoubtedly an outlier.
I am not saying that Mundus being Low 2-C is impossible. Far from it, I actually find the idea quite interesting and technically a Low 2-C feat being an outlier does not disprove a Low 2-C rating. But as much as I love Devil May Cry as a franchise, there is simply not enough decent evidence for a Low 2-C rating to go through. You can believe it if you wish, but to put it bluntly, it would never go through.
I am not saying that Mundus being Low 2-C is impossible. Far from it, I actually find the idea quite interesting and technically a Low 2-C feat being an outlier does not disprove a Low 2-C rating. But as much as I love Devil May Cry as a franchise, there is simply not enough decent evidence for a Low 2-C rating to go through. You can believe it if you wish, but to put it bluntly, it would never go through.
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Why there's no DMC5 Devil Trigger Vergil profile photo?
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It's on his profile tho and we know he has it.
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Does he look the same thing as the DMC4 one?
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A little similar but also distinct
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Sorry but u didnt get the point of what an outlier is. Beastheads performing the feat DOES scale to mundus despite the fact that it would not be considered an outlier as u DONT need for the latter to do a feat that is abvoe the other. Its called proper scaling.DarkGrath said:
You're sticking into one thibg that IS NOT part of power scaling in the first place. U always dont need feats to provide the scaling whether it was an outlier. This is like saying goku in BoG anime was said yo cause shockwaves along with beerus meanwhile in his stronger form didnt do anything but destroy craters means that the previous feat was just an outlier bevause the latter didnt show any feat higher or on par. Thats not how an outlier works. Heck even beastheads is not even the strongest in its own tribe/clan.
So the fact that the argument still stands does not change the feat and the scaling.
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