One Piece God-High Tiers Revision

[KingTempest]

Do we always treat the stomach as a weak point when it comes to blows?

Most of the time. I don't remember any instances where we don't for this verse.

 

[RoyGundam]

Marco has a databook statement of being comparable to the admirals and they fought the admirals offscreen for a long period of time and only lost when they were off guard.

Marco was also remarkably ineffective in dealing any damage to the admirals he was fighting off-screen. Not to mention he has a broken regeneration ability so it could be a simple stamina feat

Vista fought a non serious Mihawk while he was holding back as well.

Meaning that clash can't be used to scale him

The Akainu ineffectiveness was explained in my Busoshoku Haki thread to be superior Busoshoku, not AP wise.

Explain it however you like, the bottom line is that none of these characters reliably damaged any Admiral or Admiral-level character

 

[RoyGundam]

Do we always treat the stomach as a weak point when it comes to blows?

AFAIK the stomach is a natural weak spot. A good blow to the liver could KO someone pretty easily

 

[KingTempest]

Marco was also remarkably ineffective in dealing any damage to the admirals he was fighting off-screen. Not to mention he has a broken regeneration ability so it could be a simple stamina feat

He fought one admiral who fought him and who didn't hurt him at all. And his regen doesn't apply, because when we initially see Marco he fully tanks his Danmaku lasers. They don't even go through him when he doesn't want them to.

Meaning that clash can't be used to scale him

It doesn't, which is why Vista doesn't scale to Mihawk as of now.

Explain it however you like, the bottom line is that none of these characters reliably damaged any Admiral or Admiral-level character

And no admiral level character damaged them.
Jozu drew blood from an Observation Haki user who can work similarly to Katakuri, plus we see that Aokiji saw him before Jozu hit him in the previous page. That's not an excuse.

No admiral level char hurt them without them being off guard. We get a statement that Marco is equal to them, so they're comparable.

 

[RexofLM]

Funnily enough though we rate kizaru as the weakest admiral because aokiji and akainu had their 10 day clash but Kizarus the only admiral to walk out of marineford unscathed. Aokiji the only Admiral the commanders are shown damaging

 

[RexofLM]

He fought one admiral who fought him and who didn't hurt him at all. And his regen doesn't apply, because when we initially see Marco he fully tanks his Danmaku lasers. They don't even go through him when he doesn't want them to.

It doesn't, which is why Vista doesn't scale to Mihawk as of now.

And no admiral level character damaged them.
Jozu drew blood from an Observation Haki user who can work similarly to Katakuri, plus we see that Aokiji saw him before Jozu hit him in the previous page. That's not an excuse.

No admiral level char hurt them without them being off guard. We get a statement that Marco is equal to them, so they're comparable.

To point out something in your first point. While the beams somehow didnt get to whitebeard, marco is regenerating in that portion of the panels you can see the black spots in the flames over his eye and across the torso and shoulder where hes regenerating

 

[Damage3245]

To point out something in your first point. While the beams somehow didnt get to whitebeard, marco is regenerating in that portion of the panels you can see the black spots in the flames over his eye and across the torso and shoulder where hes regenerating

Yeah, I was going to point this out. He didn't fully tank them because he still got serious injuries from them which regenerated. They just didn't pierce to the other side of his body.

 

[KingTempest]

To point out something in your first point. While the beams somehow didnt get to whitebeard, marco is regenerating in that portion of the panels you can see the black spots in the flames over his eye and across the torso and shoulder where hes regenerating

Yeah, I was going to point this out. He didn't fully tank them because he still got serious injuries from them which regenerated. They just didn't pierce to the other side of his body.

True, but he was still able to tank a large amount of them. He can't regen with the lasers taking up where he wants to regen, but the fact that they didn't go completely through his body says a lot for his natural dura. And the next page when Kizaru shoots them, Marco isn't trying to block and they go completely through his body

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Yeah, I was going to point this out. He didn't fully tank them because he still got serious injuries from them which regenerated. They just didn't pierce to the other side of his body.

What do you think about the admirals alone being 6-B, is that much of a problem?

 

[RoyGundam]

He fought one admiral who fought him and who didn't hurt him at all. And his regen doesn't apply, because when we initially see Marco he fully tanks his Danmaku lasers. They don't even go through him when he doesn't want them to.

Like I said, matching one or two attacks shouldn't justify full scaling. We don't even know how serious Kizaru's attack was relative to Marco's attempt at blocking them

It doesn't, which is why Vista doesn't scale to Mihawk as of now.

So Vista essentially doesn't directly scale to anyone in Admiral level

And no admiral level character damaged them.

Both Jozu and Marco are the literal definition of Tanks. Marco has a broken regen ability and Jozu is literally the hardest substance in the world. Their powersets simply make them difficult to cause lasting damage to. Besides, Marco and Jozu are scaling to the Admirals here not the other way around - so they need to have feats of damaging the Admirals to justify their scaling. Asking why the Admirals didn't damage them is actually the wrong question for the purposes of this thread

Jozu drew blood from an Observation Haki user who can work similarly to Katakuri

Are there canon references to Aokiji having Observation Haki on the same level as Katakuri ? I'd be interested to see some proof

 

[Damage3245]

What do you think about the admirals alone being 6-B, is that much of a problem?

No, I don't think that is unreasonable.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

No, I don't think that is unreasonable.

Alright, sounds good.

 

[RexofLM]

True, but he was still able to tank a large amount of them. He can't regen with the lasers taking up where he wants to regen, but the fact that they didn't go completely through his body says a lot for his natural dura. And the next page when Kizaru shoots them, Marco isn't trying to block and they go completely through his body

If they didnt go through is a testament to Marco's durability can we stop saying kizaru has dura neg as a way to justify kizaru not scaling to the other 2 Cuz he also blast through marco several more times when hes not regenerating and he puts a shot through whitebeard

 

[Eminiteable]

So Vista essentially doesn't directly scale to anyone in Admiral level

Both Jozu and Marco are the literal definition of Tanks. Marco has a broken regen ability and Jozu is literally the hardest substance in the world. Their powersets simply make them difficult to cause lasting damage to. Besides, Marco and Jozu are scaling to the Admirals here not the other way around - so they need to have feats of damaging the Admirals to justify their scaling. Asking why the Admirals didn't damage them is actually the wrong question for the purposes of this thread

Good points.

 

[RexofLM]

Also something that caught my eye as I reread marineford we should give whitebeard cleaves into kizaru to prevent him from dispersing and reaching the runway to the scaffold. And it does Nothing to him. So I'm guessing he had to of did what aokiji did and split himself or made a hole so we should put advanced observation on his profile

 

[Eminiteable]

Also something that caught my eye as I reread marineford we should give whitebeard cleaves into kizaru to prevent him from dispersing and reaching the runway to the scaffold. And it does Nothing to him. So I'm guessing he had to of did what aokiji did and split himself or made a hole so we should put advanced observation on his profile

Think that was supposed to be added.

 

[KingTempest]

Like I said, matching one or two attacks shouldn't justify full scaling. We don't even know how serious Kizaru's attack was relative to Marco's attempt at blocking them

From what we know, Kizaru's lasers don't change in potency, plus they were meant to WB

So Vista essentially doesn't directly scale to anyone in Admiral level

Vista scales comparable to his peers. It's very iffy, but it's the only way to scale him unless he comes back in another arc.

Both Jozu and Marco are the literal definition of Tanks. Marco has a broken regen ability and Jozu is literally the hardest substance in the world. Their powersets simply make them difficult to cause lasting damage to. Besides, Marco and Jozu are scaling to the Admirals here not the other way around - so they need to have feats of damaging the Admirals to justify their scaling. Asking why the Admirals didn't damage them is actually the wrong question for the purposes of this thread

I won't and can't lie, you're 100% correct.
The main arguments for me scaling them to the admirals is
1. Databook statement of Marco scaling (I linked it in the OP).
2. Jozu tackles Aokiji and we see him w/ Ice on his face and him looking prior to getting tackled (I just noticed, so you'll have to look closely on Aokiji's face in the bottom left to notice it), so that means he was attempting to go to his logia form prior to getting tackled, which signifies that he braced for impact, which also signified that he was trying to defend himself.
3. Ace's feats against the admirals.

Are there canon references to Aokiji having Observation Haki on the same level as Katakuri ? I'd be interested to see some proof

I stated "similar" as it works in a similar fashion (don't mean to come off as disrespectful if it sounds like that, I apologize if it does). This is the prime example.

 

[RoyGundam]

Also something that caught my eye as I reread marineford we should give whitebeard cleaves into kizaru to prevent him from dispersing and reaching the runway to the scaffold. And it does Nothing to him. So I'm guessing he had to of did what aokiji did and split himself or made a hole so we should put advanced observation on his profile

Is the comparison to Katakuri's Advanced observation based on the fact that he also uses his devil fruit ability in a similar manner to avoid haki-clad blows?

Doesn't Trebol also use essentially the same technique too? (Actually now that I think of it, Trebol had impressive Observation Haki too)

 

[Damage3245]

Vista scales comparable to his peers. It's very iffy, but it's the only way to scale him unless he comes back in another arc.

I don't think all commanders are inherently equal. There's nothing saying each of Whitebeard's 16 Commanders should be rated as 6-B.

 

[KingTempest]

Is the comparison to Katakuri's Advanced observation based on the fact that he also uses his devil fruit ability in a similar manner to avoid haki-clad blows?

Yeah

Doesn't Trebol also use essentially the same technique too? (Actually now that I think of it, Trebol had impressive Observation Haki too)

Nope.
Trebol had a bunch of mucus around his body. People thought he was an obese logia but he was just a skinny person who has mucus around him.

 

[KingTempest]

I don't think all commanders are inherently equal. There's nothing saying each of Whitebeard's 16 Commanders should be rated as 6-B.

Then we need another justification for Vista or to remove his profile.

 

[Damage3245]

Then we need another justification for Vista or to remove his profile.

Or we scale him to Unknown.

Removing his profile should be the very last thing considered.

 

[KingTempest]

Or we scale him to Unknown.

Removing his profile should be the very last thing considered.

I have no idea why I said remove his profile, my bad.

I guess that would be fine for Vista. I assumed the old profile justification had a reason behind it, him being one of the most notable commanders and all

 

[RoyGundam]

Well, so he did notice the attack just before it landed - which is good for scaling Jozu. Honestly, I am kind of neutral on this because they all definitely had feats of at least momentarily matching the Admirals, but one thing I do think is that there is no justification for Marco and Jozu scaling while Ace does not. IMO Ace has the same level of feats as Marco.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Or we scale him to Unknown.

Removing his profile should be the very last thing considered.

Would changing admirals to 6-B be fine to you, if accepted?

 

[KingTempest]

Would changing admirals to 6-B be fine to you, if accepted?

No, I don't think that is unreasonable.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Not thinking something is unreasonable /=/ Full on agreeing to when accepted.

 

[Damage3245]

Not thinking something is unreasonable /=/ Full on agreeing to when accepted.

I'm more neutral than full agreement.

It's the other characters scaling which interest me more.

I've got a proposal for the Yonkou.

Mitch's calc for Kaido & Big Mom has been accepted which puts their Striking Strength at 6-C. I think it would be more reasonable, especially since we don't have direct comparisons between them and Whitebeard, if we changed their ratings to "At least Island level, likely Country level" - and see what we get out of that in terms of scaling.

 

[KingTempest]

especially since we don't have direct comparisons between them and Whitebeard

Whitebeard's Physicals = Shanks' Physicals ~ Kaido's Anything ~ Linlin

 

[StrawHatArslan]

I'm more neutral than full agreement.

It's the other characters scaling which interest me more.

I've got a proposal for the Yonkou.

Mitch's calc for Kaido & Big Mom has been accepted which puts their Striking Strength at 6-C. I think it would be more reasonable, especially since we don't have direct comparisons between them and Whitebeard, if we changed their ratings to "At least Island level, likely higher" - and see what we get out of that in terms of scaling.

Absolutely disagree with this, FRA that Tempest presented. Not to mention that this thread isn't for the yonko, but for admirals. Yonko's have already been accepted for 6-B.

 

[Damage3245]

Mainly due to BB being scared of fighting akainu

Akainu can negate durability, can't he? And there could be other easy explanations for why he doesn't want to fight; Akainu is more skilled than him, could be faster than him.

but laughing around about fighting sengoku and garp, who were as strong as they were in their primes

This isn't a conclusive fact.

Whitebeard's Physicals = Shanks' Physicals ~ Kaido's Anything ~ Linlin

Technically we have no good comparison between Shanks and Kaido at the moment. We don't know what happened in their off-screen meeting.

And I have doubts regarding Whitebeard's physicals being that good. It's based off of off-screen fighting once more.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

Akainu can negate durability, can't he? And there could be other easy explanations for why he doesn't want to fight; Akainu is more skilled than him, could be faster than him.



This isn't a conclusive fact.



Technically we have no good comparison between Shanks and Kaido at the moment. We don't know what happened in their off-screen meeting.

And I have doubts regarding Whitebeard's physicals being that good. It's based off of off-screen fighting once more.

This isn't a yonko thread, and we already discussed the last point in the last thread

 

[Damage3245]

This isn't a yonko thread, and we already discussed the last point in the last thread

I'm bringing it up now because we have a new accepted calc for the Yonkou.

Why should we rely on "Should be as strong as Shanks" when we have a feat we can scale them to?

 

[RoyGundam]

And I have doubts regarding Whitebeard's physicals being that good. It's based off of off-screen fighting once more.

It's not from an offscreen fight. Whitebeard and Shanks clashing caused the original cloud-split to show the power of the Yonko

 

[Damage3245]

It's not from an offscreen fight. Whitebeard and Shanks clashing caused the original cloud-split to show the power of the Yonko

The original cloud-split hasn't been calced, has it?

And I'm not talking about that fight. I'm referencing Roger's and Whitebeard's off-screen fight as a reason to say Whitebeard's Striking Strength equals his Devil Fruit's AP.

EDIT: Feats are more important than statements, no? So why doesn't Kaido's feat take precedence over whatever statement is scaling him to Shanks?

 

[RoyGundam]

The original cloud-split hasn't been calced, has it?

No, I meant that was probably the justification for saying "Whitebeard's Physicals = Shanks' Physicals".

 

[Eminiteable]

Akainu can negate durability, can't he? And there could be other easy explanations for why he doesn't want to fight; Akainu is more skilled than him, could be faster than him.

Blackbeard witnessed the effectiveness of the Gura Gura no mi against Akainu this is something we know. Assuming Blackbeard made these other two distinctions is just assumption and guess work.

The original cloud-split hasn't been calced, has it?

The aftermath of their clash was calced but just because a calc can put them at a certain rating doesn't negate scaling, otherwise are we going to claim Human level for when characters clash and there isn't a big explosion?

I'm bringing it up now because we have a new accepted calc for the Yonkou.

And there's three others for the Yonko as well.

 

[StrawHatArslan]

The original cloud-split hasn't been calced, has it?

And I'm not talking about that fight. I'm referencing Roger's and Whitebeard's off-screen fight as a reason to say Whitebeard's Striking Strength equals his Devil Fruit's AP.

EDIT: Feats are more important than statements, no? So why doesn't Kaido's feat take precedence over whatever statement is scaling him to Shanks?

There's whitebeards calcs, which scale to him for the reasons tempest gave in the other thread. I don't know why you're overlooking those and talking about a new 6-C calc to downgrade them, when there's 3 other 6-B calcs.

 

[Damage3245]

Blackbeard witnessed the effectiveness of the Gura Gura no mi against Akainu this is something we know. Assuming Blackbeard made these other two distinctions is just assumption and guess work.

Did he? Do we know Blackbeard arrived in time to see Whitebeard beat Akainu?

The aftermath of their clash was calced but just because a calc can put them at a certain rating doesn't negate scaling, otherwise are we going to claim Human level for when characters clash and there isn't a big explosion?

No.

And there's three others for the Yonko as well.

Three others, just for Whitebeard and Blackbeard. I'm suggesting we don't scale Big Mom and Kaido directly to them as their primary justification.

There's whitebeards calcs, which scale to him for the reasons tempest gave in the other thread. I don't know why you're overlooking those and talking about a new 6-C calc to downgrade them, when there's 3 other 6-B calcs.

I don't think Big Mom and Kaido's "hype" should take precedence over their feats. What feats do they have that are Country level?

 

[Eminiteable]

Did he? Do we know Blackbeard arrived in time to see Whitebeard beat Akainu?

Yes... they literally appeared in the same chapter that Whitebeard beat Akainu and were the ones to open the gate of justice that Luffy and co. used to enter marineford, they were there for a while.

No.

We aren't? Then we wouldn't use the 7-C result between WB & Shanks to disprove scaling.

Three others, just for Whitebeard and Blackbeard. I'm suggesting we don't scale Big Mom and Kaido directly to them as their primary justification.

Kaido and Big Mom I'm neutral on, but they were stated by the Gorosei to be able to deal with Blackbeard.