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One Piece Profile Revisions: Part 1 - Original Admirals P&A
- Thread starter Kachon123
- Start date
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Looks amazing
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- #43
All the Vice Admirals on Egghead were masters of Rokushiki.
Also, thoughts on a likely for Absolute Zero?
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They're users of Rokushiki, yes, but that doesn't necessarily make them masters of all the forms.
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- #45
Well no, because Rokushiki isn't called Rokushiki if they can't use all the forms. It's referred to by whatever number forms the user has access to.
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I think a possibly/likely rating on Rokushiki seem fine... Especially for aokiji who literally was trained by garp, the same garp who makes people not use df's or haki to train themselves
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Okay. All the same, I'm against it for the Admirals.
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- #48
For what reasons? Remember, this is a likely rating so everyone acknowledges the bit of doubt that there is.
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I don't think there's sufficient basis for a Likely rating. Weaker Marines having Rokushiki techniques is not a guarantee that the Admirals would have it too. If there was a statement along the lines of "Most Vice Admirals have some training in Rokushiki" then that'd be more reasonable.
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Everything seems fine, but it does not agree to add absolute zero to aokiji, as far as the existing information on SBS, vivre cards and manga does not show evidence of the existence of absolute zero.
And also the possibility of the rokushiki technique doesn't need to be added, yes we know that marines like Vice Admiral Momonga and Commodore Kibin can use it, but as far as I know some marines who can use it could be because they have been trained when they were recruited directly by the world government, this could be added to the possibility of Admiral fujitora and ryokugyu being military graduates
And also the possibility of the rokushiki technique doesn't need to be added, yes we know that marines like Vice Admiral Momonga and Commodore Kibin can use it, but as far as I know some marines who can use it could be because they have been trained when they were recruited directly by the world government, this could be added to the possibility of Admiral fujitora and ryokugyu being military graduates
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Considering; all VAs & higher ranks have Haki, Rokushiki & Haki require simular training; makes sense for them to have likely mastered those.
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Haki and Rokushiki being gained through similar training is not enough to say that anyone who has Haki (such as Vice Admirals) likely has Rokushiki too.
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- #57
It heavily implied it to the point to where when added on top of everything else, a likely rating would make sense.
If Vice Admirals are said to be trained in Haki and nearly every single one of them have shown the ability to use Rokushiki with training of the former stronger being noted similar to the training needed to master the latter, I don't think it's far fetched to say that the Admirals have a chance in being able to use Rokushiki as well. Especially not when specifically stated that Haki incorporated in many martial arts.
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Only four Vice Admirals have explicitly used Rokushiki techniques with some others seemingly using Geppo. It's not "every single one" has the ability to use Rokushiki.
I don't think that makes it likely to say that all three Admirals (and the other new ones I guess) have all of the Rokushiki abilities.
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Momonga lives up to his title as Vice Admiral(lieutenant general) because he had mastered both of Haki & Rokushiki. IIRC even Post-TS Coby had statments of mastering Rokushiki despite being a lower rank.
Edit: Found them
Edit: Found them
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Some Marines of lower ranks do have Rokushiki abilities like Koby, Tashigi, Helmeppo, etc. I don't think it should be extended to then assume any high-ranking Marine likely has Rokushiki.
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- #61
The whole point is that it's likely that Rokushiki is trained and taught for high-ranking Marines. Vice Admirals and higher seem to know both.
1. Haki is stated to be closely related to and applied in many martial arts in different cultures around the world.
2. Rokushiki is the official martial art style of the World Government.
3. The Navy is under of the World Government.
4. Haki training and Rokushiki training are stated to be notably similar
5. Nearly all Vice Admirals have shown to be masters of Rokushiki
6. Momonga is stated to be worth his Vice Admiral title because he's good at both Haki and Rokushiki
Authors aren't just going to force feed their readers, and while that can make things difficult for us when making/editing profiles, that's the whole point for likely and possibly ratings:
Likely Rokushiki for the Admirals definitely has some basis (the 6 above), but it's non-definitive since everything we need is pretty much there expect Oda flat-out saying that Vice Admirals are trained in Rokushiki like they are in Haki.
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There are 32 named Vice Admirals. Only 4 of them have explicitly shown Rokushiki techniques with a few more being implied.
That's pretty far from "Nearly all Vice Admirals have shown to be masters of Rokushiki".
That's pretty far from "Nearly all Vice Admirals have shown to be masters of Rokushiki".
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- #63
The 9 Egghead Vice Admirals were stated to be Rokushiki users.
Garp can use Rokushiki.
Dalmatian can use Rokushiki.
Vergo can use Rokushiki.
Smoker likely can use Rokushiki due to his direct subordinate and inferior Tashigi having it.
Momonga can use Rokushiki.
This is 14 Admirals out of the 18 that we've seen in action have shown Rokushiki.
Also, I doubt that the World Government would make someone who isn't even trained in their martial art a Vice Admiral over someone who is, let alone an Admiral. At the end of the day, unless they've joined the Navy recently, the vast majority of their current day competent fighters were just normal people who've undergone the Navy's training.
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Technically speaking Garp isn't confirmed to use Rokushiki. While we saw him moving quickly the appearance of it looked different to the Shave/Soru used by his subordinates and could've just been him moving quickly instead of using Shave/Soru.
Smoker has yet to be confirmed to have it as you said. Tashigi using it doesn't mean Smoker can use it.
Regardless, I don't think we're going to convince each other on this. Our personal standards on what if sufficient basis are too different so I'll let other staff decide.
The 4 I was referring to btw was Dalmation, Vergo, Momonga and Tosa. While the other Egghead Vice Admirals were implied and we saw some of them using Geppo to get onto the island, we didn't get a good look at all of them.
Smoker has yet to be confirmed to have it as you said. Tashigi using it doesn't mean Smoker can use it.
Regardless, I don't think we're going to convince each other on this. Our personal standards on what if sufficient basis are too different so I'll let other staff decide.
The 4 I was referring to btw was Dalmation, Vergo, Momonga and Tosa. While the other Egghead Vice Admirals were implied and we saw some of them using Geppo to get onto the island, we didn't get a good look at all of them.
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- #65
How so?
All of them used Geppo to get onto the island. We know that Rokushiki isn't called Rokushiki when the user doesn't have all 6 powers, but despite that, when Vice Admiral Tosa told all Rokushiki users to go onto the island, it was said a shown that all of the Vice Admirals landed on the island, not "some."
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Sorry, I was thinking of a later instance when he charged at Pizzaro.
You're right, that looks a lot more like Shave/Soru.
He's not going to specifically call out every single Vice Admirals individual level of mastery.
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- #67
I forgot to include the imgur link. I edited my message.
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I forgot to edit. Done.
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I acknowledge that point - but my issue is that I don't think that is enough for Akainu, Aokiji and Kizaru to be listed as likely having all six powers.
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- #70
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If we get a more direct supporting statement for that, then I'd change my mind. I don't think it's sufficient based on the current evidence.
I wouldn't say that even Garp or Prince Grus likely has the other 5 powers just because they've displayed the use of one of them. I get where you're coming from, but I think it's better to be conservative on this kind of abilities issue.
I wouldn't say that even Garp or Prince Grus likely has the other 5 powers just because they've displayed the use of one of them. I get where you're coming from, but I think it's better to be conservative on this kind of abilities issue.
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- #72
That's what the point of full ratings are. This is a likely rating:
The Admirals being able to use Rokushiki has some basis, but it's non-definitive because there is outright statement.
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I don't think what's presented consistutes as a valid basis.
If the basis was a statement like "High-ranking Marines recieve some training in Rokushiki" then that'd be more valid for a likely rating because even if we can't definitively state their level of mastery, we know for certain that they've have recieved some training in it due to being high-ranking marines.
If the basis was a statement like "High-ranking Marines recieve some training in Rokushiki" then that'd be more valid for a likely rating because even if we can't definitively state their level of mastery, we know for certain that they've have recieved some training in it due to being high-ranking marines.
DaMonkeMan
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Kachon makes more sense to me. I don't see why the Admirals wouldn't have Rokushiki, just because they don't show it (and may not need it, for example Kizaru being able to travel with his fruit and thus making Geppo useless) doesn't mean they weren't taught it.
When far less experienced Cipher Pol agents and Marines were taught it and are skilled with it, it makes it really hard to believe the Admirals just don't have Rokushiki as well.
When far less experienced Cipher Pol agents and Marines were taught it and are skilled with it, it makes it really hard to believe the Admirals just don't have Rokushiki as well.
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I'm not saying that they definitely don't have it. Just that it's too early to put it on their profiles.
There are some Big Mom Pirates that know how to use Geppo / Moonwalk. But I'm not going to assume that Big Mom likely can use it too.
DaMonkeMan
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That's not really the same thing, because the BMP are not in a military where they're all actively taught to fight in certain ways. Everyone has their own style there.
Meanwhile the Marines are consistent in teaching their soldiers to use weapons and to become weapons themselves, by using Rokushiki and Haki.
There's no reason to assume that the Admirals just weren't taught it when it seems like every VA has it (even Vergo had it).
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Some Rokushiki techniques can be learned without training necessarily, Sanji learned geppou simply by running. The difference is that in the navy there is a more solid and systematic scale of training in haki and martial arts than in piracy, where we see most powers and abilities being discovered in the heat of the moment of a fight. Every military organization is treated with hierarchies, it would be very strange if an inferior marine knew skills that advanced marines don't know.
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You cooked.
Consider me on board with the OP's proposals.
Consider me on board with the OP's proposals.
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