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That's why I'm fine with adding a "likely higher" or "likely Country level" after the "At least Island level" for their ratings.
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One Piece God-High Tiers Revision
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That's why I'm fine with adding a "likely higher" or "likely Country level" after the "At least Island level" for their ratings.
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Kaido was stated to be able to defeat blackbeard, so was big mom. JUST because they pulled off a 6-C feat doesn't mean that's all that they are capable of doing. Feats aren't limiters.
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The power dynamics of the One Piece world don't work if the Yonko aren't relatively equal in strength. There is a narrative backing for the Yonko to scale to one another. Otherwise the balance of power would very easily collapse
Eminiteable
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So "At least 6-C, Likely 6-B" is what you're suggesting for Kaido and Linlin?
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Feats aren't limiters like I mentioned before. Also, IF they're stated to being able to defeat blackbeard, what's wrong with it then? ALL yonkos were stated to be relative to one another. Keeping BB and WB at "Country level" but then Kaido and Big Mom at "likely, Country Level" Makes ZERO sense to me.
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Yeah.
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Agreed with this.
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Not to mention that scrutinizing always, when we have other more reasonable explanations for 6-B is better. "likely 6-B" doesn't make sense when the Kaido and Big mom were straight up stated of being able to beat blackbeard who pulled off the 14 teratons feat. So, the whole preposition of "at least 6-C" is a BIG NO, from me.
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Can you provide the statement saying all Yonkou are equals?
And I don't consider that hype as the absolute most valid method for scaling them. Luffy was hyped in-universe as being a new Emperor, and we know that he got stomped by Kaido. Being an Emperor is not solely about strength.
Them possibly being able to beat Blackbeard is why I think a "likely 6-B" rating is fine. Because it hasn't been confirmed yet.
It was also stated that Marco + Whitebeard Pirates could stand a chance at beating Blackbeard, and yet they failed.
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"Person: Fastest agreement in the history of a OP CRT
Me: Ah shit, that's really a bad sign for the HST..."
This aged like some fine ass wine
Me: Ah shit, that's really a bad sign for the HST..."
This aged like some fine ass wine
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Luffy also didn't maintain his power as a Yonko for years, even decades unlike Big Mom, Kaido and WB. Like I said, the power dynamics of One Piece require them to scale to one another
Eminiteable
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How about this:
Kaido:
Attack Potency: At least Island level (Performed this feat, One-shot Boundman Luffy), Country level In Zoan Form (Far stronger than in Base, regarded by the Gorosei to be one of few to be able to deal with Blackbeard)
Durability: At least Island level in Base Form (Fell 10,000 meters and only received a mild headache. Was pummeled by Luffy's strongest Gear 3 and Gear 4 attacks but was left completely unscathed), Country level In Zoan Form (Tanked his own Boro Breath. Has survived capture and attempted execution by Marines, enemy pirates, and even other Yonkō several times.)
Big Mom:
Attack Potency: Country level (Performed this feat while restricted to only using one of her Homies and is far stronger with all three, regarded by the Gorosei to be one of few to be able to deal with Blackbeard, While in a weakened state, Big Mom casually broke through Jinbe's haki-imbued guard with one of her sword swings, sending him flying with very little effort. She also casually defeated Queen, one of the calamites of Kaido, with two attacks while in her crazed hunger state)
Durability: Country level (Capone Bege stated that Big Mom simply "does not get hurt" no matter what, despite being in numerous fights. She tanked an attack from Jinbe with no implication of being harmed and blocked a Kong Gun from Monkey D. Luffy with not even a scratch to show for it), but her durability is reduced when experiencing a severe amount of mental trauma, such as when she scraped her knee after going insane from someone simply touching a framed picture of Mother Caramel
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Also luffy was only called an Yonko by Big News Morgan. Pretty sure he’s not an “Official” Yonko at that time.
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Totally agree with this.
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@Eminiteable; I'd still prefer if Big Mom was "At least 6-C, likely 6-B" if he went with that justification for her.
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Would this apply to their durability and striking strength too? I still prefer 6-B.
Stefano4444
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That doesn't make sense, Kaido was capable to match Big Mom without using his Zoan Form, as the Anime show.
And never before it was indicate that a Zoan Form can make someone hundreds of times stronger than Base.
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This is why 6-B is better
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Yes.
What reason is there for their Striking Strength to be 6-B? It's not like Blackbeard's durability shot up to 6-B when he gained the Devil Fruit as we agreed earlier.
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"Barely above Luffy, likely far above Luffy" is all I read just now.
That's #1. #2, how did we get from admirals to Yonko. We had a thread where we could've discussed all of this, but we wanna bring it back up here.
You need to stop comparing these high and god tiers to Luffy. You did the exact same thing with Ace. That was all plot and their source was from Morgans. We don't use Morgans as a valid source, especially when we see how he got his information.
Damage. There are certain things that we need confirmation for and certain things we take as it is.
"Kaido has a devil fruit" we needed confirmation.
"Shanks is very important" we needed confirmation.
"Fujitora is an admiral" we needed confirmation.
"Luffy will become the Pirate King EOS" we need confirmation.
"An orange is orange" we don't need confirmation.
"Akainu's magma is hot" we don't need confirmation.
"Enel's lightning can do things that irl lightning can" we don't need confirmation.
"Luffy's stretching has limits" we don't need confirmation.
"These old strong Yonko can beat a fresh new Yonko" we don't need confirmation.
We don't need a flat out statement for everything. It's not "it's wrong unless it's confirmed" for every single scenario.
This is an even stronger Blackbeard a year after Marineford a year after this statement was stated. That's a completely different Blackbeard who honed his devil fruit and abilities. This is not an argument at all.
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,090
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No but his AP had be increase to 6-B, if Big Mom or Kaido were indeed only 6-C Blackbeard would had be capable to oneshot both of them.
But he didn't even wanted to fight Akainu, even with the help of his crew, there is no way that Yonko or Admirals don't scale above Marineford Arc Blackbeard.
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Exactly. I still don't get why damage brought this up in a thread about ADMIRALS, not yonko."Barely above Luffy, likely far above Luffy" is all I read just now.
That's #1. #2, how did we get from admirals to Yonko. We had a thread where we could've discussed all of this, but we wanna bring it back up here.
You need to stop comparing these high and god tiers to Luffy. You did the exact same thing with Ace. That was all plot and their source was from Morgans. We don't use Morgans as a valid source, especially when we see how he got his information.
Damage. There are certain things that we need confirmation for and certain things we take as it is.
"Kaido has a devil fruit" we needed confirmation.
"Shanks is very important" we needed confirmation.
"Fujitora is an admiral" we needed confirmation.
"Luffy will become the Pirate King EOS" we need confirmation.
"An orange is orange" we don't need confirmation.
"Akainu's magma is hot" we don't need confirmation.
"Enel's lightning can do things that irl lightning can" we don't need confirmation.
"Luffy's stretching has limits" we don't need confirmation.
"These old strong Yonko can beat a fresh new Yonko" we don't need confirmation.
We don't need a flat out statement for everything. It's not "it's wrong unless it's confirmed" for every single scenario.
This is an even stronger Blackbeard a year after Marineford a year after this statement was stated. That's a completely different Blackbeard who honed his devil fruit and abilities. This is not an argument at all.
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I mean. There is a 6-B feat that got accepted by everyone. Just cuz a 6-C clash popped up doesn't really get rid of the fact that a 6-B feat has been accomplished and accepted by members of staff. So i think we should stay with the 6-B calc till someone makes a new calc for that calc which would scale them lower.
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The narrative supports it but also
Kaido list shanks as one of the few people capable of fighting him. Even if you argue that other characters who scale that he didnt point out should be capable as well. Kaido gives his top 5 which we know hes met all of them. Shanks should scale. Ans since whitebeard scales to shanks at least physically kaido should get 6B. Another thing to note is while he has 6C feats they're casual.
Kaido list shanks as one of the few people capable of fighting him. Even if you argue that other characters who scale that he didnt point out should be capable as well. Kaido gives his top 5 which we know hes met all of them. Shanks should scale. Ans since whitebeard scales to shanks at least physically kaido should get 6B. Another thing to note is while he has 6C feats they're casual.
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One thing that I'm just realising is that everyone was 7A or either high 7A most scalling off Each other. So i don't really see the problem with 6-B ace now. This is an admiral thread and we have those such as luffy, zoro, "KILLER, Law etc who harmed kaido and made him draw blood so they'll eventually scale close so eh. Ace being a second D commander should be 6-B for statements and feats for matching admirals and blackbeard. I mean, he holds more than 1 L but it doesn't mean his key shouldn't be any lower just for a loss.
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I don't think Whitebeard should be scaling physically.
The end result of these revisions is going to be a nightmare for the verse.
This thread is mainly for the admirals right now, but I can see where it is going.
"Why would Whitebeard have Commanders 20,000x stronger than Big Mom's Commanders. Charlotte Cracker should be 6-B too. Jack should be 6-B too. Fujitora should be 6-B. Doflamingo & Law should be 6-B. Vergo should be 6-B. Etc."
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Also.
Didn't Killer (who fought Shanks with Kid) say that Kaido was the strongest pirate in the world, and Kid cosigned with him?
Killer and Kid fought both Shanks and Kaido. They are the most reliable sources possible.
Didn't Killer (who fought Shanks with Kid) say that Kaido was the strongest pirate in the world, and Kid cosigned with him?
Killer and Kid fought both Shanks and Kaido. They are the most reliable sources possible.
I will personally vouch against that BS.
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However to be fair and play devil's advocate.
At least 6C likely 6B may be safer in retrospect because weve calced 2 feats I recall from the yonko vs supernova at island lvl and these characters have been supposedly damaging kaido. But we cant talk about that cuz were "waiting" on wano so 6B is reasonable rn
At least 6C likely 6B may be safer in retrospect because weve calced 2 feats I recall from the yonko vs supernova at island lvl and these characters have been supposedly damaging kaido. But we cant talk about that cuz were "waiting" on wano so 6B is reasonable rn
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This pretty much says it best. Another reason why 6-B is better.Also.
Didn't Killer (who fought Shanks with Kid) say that Kaido was the strongest pirate in the world, and Kid cosigned with him?
Killer and Kid fought both Shanks and Kaido. They are the most reliable sources possible.
I will personally vouch against that BS.
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I understand the concern with the logic at the end but that likely wont fly because big moms commanders scale to luffys feats post dressrosa and Marco's bullying king and queen rn
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We've calced feats below 7-A for Akainu.
Nobody's saying "7-B, likely 7-A, possibly 6-B for Akainu"
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@Damage3245 FRA that tempest presented with his posts about the yonkos, and then his post about shanks/kaido. I don't agree with Likely 6-B, and 6-B should stay where it is.
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Anyways, since this is one of the most pointless derailments of all time (bringing up God tiers in a god-high tier thread).
The Blackbeard that beat Marco is a year after Marineford where he got stronger.
The Gorosei's statement hasn't been proven wrong that the Admirals and Marco can beat Blackbeard as they saw him from the time of Marineford.
Ace has more feats than antifeats.
What needs to be done here?
I'm not accepting compromises just because people don't agree. There needs to be a reason for the compromise, not just "here's an option, and even though it has no reason to be better than the last, we can use it". It's just like when we make calculations and there has to be a reason for one calc being better than the other.
Y'all tried to compromise Ace being a lower tier all because 6-B Ace looked weird... like what?
If there's no good reason other than your personal headcanon, then the scaling is perfectly fine and the solid tier is far better..
The Blackbeard that beat Marco is a year after Marineford where he got stronger.
The Gorosei's statement hasn't been proven wrong that the Admirals and Marco can beat Blackbeard as they saw him from the time of Marineford.
Ace has more feats than antifeats.
What needs to be done here?
I'm not accepting compromises just because people don't agree. There needs to be a reason for the compromise, not just "here's an option, and even though it has no reason to be better than the last, we can use it". It's just like when we make calculations and there has to be a reason for one calc being better than the other.
Y'all tried to compromise Ace being a lower tier all because 6-B Ace looked weird... like what?
If there's no good reason other than your personal headcanon, then the scaling is perfectly fine and the solid tier is far better..
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cough damage cough
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Carry on with your scaling. I'll address other issues as they come up.
Eminiteable
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He says the red-hair pirates not Shanks, until further clarification is given on the battle assuming Kid has any knowledge on Shanks' capabilities is wrong. Also yes Killer and Kid claim this about Kaido but how much credit does this statement hold when for example Oda was willing to call Whitebeard the strongest Pirate in his infobox yet doesn't for Kaido, Given how Oda has treated "the strongest" characters in the past it definitely makes Kaido dubious.
I agree with this though
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Not technically a derailment because the issue of other Yonko commanders is bound to come up. For instance, King and Queen are fighting Marco right now
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Okay so it looks like 6-B yonkos is staying for now which is good. For the actual thread. I don’t mind scaling jozu, Marco and admirals to 6-B. That’s fine.
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Whitebeard is dead. He doesn't hold the position anymore. And Oda hasn't even made any vivrecards or databooks or any important titles since then. He's still calling him "the so called strongest beast" because that is his title.
"The strongest man" is Whitebeard's title. "The strongest man" is Kaido's strength level after Whitebeard is dead via people who have fought another yonko
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