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oh ok then, damn Zoro really become straight beast in this arc. Props to him, but ngl i’d want Nami (Rip Zeus) and the other Strawhat crew received some kind of upgrade too in this arc
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One Piece Chapter 1013: "Anarchy in the Big Mom" (Official Release)
- Thread starter Eminiteable
- Start date
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- Tags
- one piece
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Luffy will scale in terms of durability but AP wise its a bit harder since he is throwing around a buncb of haki and dura negging stuff.
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We'll see. At least Luffy should have already been 6-B several arcs ago but he gets disrespected and his feats ruled outliers.
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Can i ask what the feats that you’re talkin abt?
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Full Summary is out rn for the chapter
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My guess is Yamato gonna save Luffy and 2v1 Kaido at the end since i don’t think Zoro going to fight anymore
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Kaido announced that Yamato would become the Shogun of New Onigashima while he goes off to find the One Piece. I'd say Kaido puts quite a lot of stock into his own child despite their disagreements. It would be satisfying though if Yamato revealed she knows the location of Oden's journal and kept it hidden from Kaido all this time, and will lay down her life for Kozuki Oden's legacy just as a final F U before assisting Luffy in a final struggle against him.
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Big Mom need to chill tf out. She took out 2 Tobi Roppo back to back, as if there are enough opponents for the SHs and allies to show off against. Granted, Ulti was obviously out of Nami and Usopp's league.
Honestly, the likes of Doflamingo, Cracker and Katakuri should all be within the same general league of the OG Admirals (albeit somewhat weaker). Luffy managing to defeat them should speak volumes for how strong he was before even training his Haki for Kaido (Despite his various struggles against them). The One-shot Kaido landed has already been explained, and I wouldn't hold it against Luffy anymore. In fact, I feel as though Luffy's display against Kaido whilst using Gear 4th in the most recent chapters is how their fight would have gone if Luffy wasn't being reckless and angry over the potential death of his friends. He wasn't even using Goken or Haoshoku while in Gear 4th. Imagine if he was. Kaido would find it very difficult to win that fight.
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Why would we use his most recent display after he went through more training in Udon and learned more techniques as the basis for how he would have done prior to that training? Luffy obviously would have done better had he not been furious and reckless but that doesnt change that he did go and train to get more powerful.
Also if it had just been a 1v1 there, imo Kaido wouldnt find it “very difficult” to win that fight, not saying it wouldnt have been a tough fight just imo not an extreme diff fight or anything, as even looking at that recent G4 fight Luffy didnt do much damage to Kaido, sure iirc he rag dolled him but thats been shown to not really mean much. We’ve seen Kaido take a shit ton of punishment from the scabbards then the supernovas and hes still going and outlasting Luffy. We are talking about Luffy prior to training his Future Sight more, his Armament more and before he even heard Hyogoro’s speech which seemingly helped him learn Hao Coating and the Kaido hed be fighting would have far less damage already done.
Also if it had just been a 1v1 there, imo Kaido wouldnt find it “very difficult” to win that fight, not saying it wouldnt have been a tough fight just imo not an extreme diff fight or anything, as even looking at that recent G4 fight Luffy didnt do much damage to Kaido, sure iirc he rag dolled him but thats been shown to not really mean much. We’ve seen Kaido take a shit ton of punishment from the scabbards then the supernovas and hes still going and outlasting Luffy. We are talking about Luffy prior to training his Future Sight more, his Armament more and before he even heard Hyogoro’s speech which seemingly helped him learn Hao Coating and the Kaido hed be fighting would have far less damage already done.
Stefano4444
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Luffy is definitely going to be upgraded after the end of this arc, probably placed around the same level of the OG Admirals, Zoro too.
Nah, i don't really think it make sense for the likes Doflamingo, Fujitora, Sweet Commanders and Calamities to be on the same league as the OG Admirals.
But i do think that they should definitely scale to the likes of Pre Timeskip Blackbeard and Ace aka At least High 7-A, possibly 6-B.
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Eminiteable
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- Thread starter
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He wasn't using Haoshoku coating but he was definitely using internal Ryou, he showed it when he freed Yamato & in chapter 1000-1001.
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I mean at that point Luffy didnt really know how to use Hao Coating (Assuming thats what you guys are referring to), so obviously he wasnt using that but id think he was using internal Ryou as using it against Kaido was a big reason he even trained it.
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What feats
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Agreed. The facts are all there. I'd even add more characters to this list to be honest.
See I'd like to beleive the first part but posts like the second are why he and others aren't already that high. It isn't based on feats but on what people think without evidence. Therefore it doesn't matter who has more feats this arc because feats have already taken a back seat to how people feel/think. This is called established precedent
No offense but the list is exhaustive.
A) this is not the place for walls of text about ratings
B) I don't have the interest in typing a ton when walls of text get ignored in favour of one liners about feelings.
Exhibit A ^^
P:S not singling out @Stefano4444 at all. He's awesome. He just provided a great example of the situation.
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If more characters had feats remotely comparable to Whitebeard's earthquakes then this would be less of an issue, but even Kaido and Big Mom aren't getting close to Whitebeard in an arc that is all about fighting them.
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Are you suggesting it is an outlier?
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I'm just of the opinion that it is a bit weird if we end up with 40 characters scaling in the region Country level when the only Country level feats happening are by the strongest character in the verse who has a specific earthquake ability (and one feat from another character who stole that same earthquake ability).
Some people have no issues with this whatsoever, and I don't blame them. Powerscaling can be a subjective business sometimes.
But to me, it's weird. The word "Outlier" may not be appropriate, but it's getting up there.
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I don't get why you put Doflamingo that high. Cracker was already confirmed to be stronger than Mingo, since it was said that Big Mom choiced to send Cracker considering she knew that Luffy was able to defeat Mingo, so she thinks that Cracker can beat someone who has beaten Doflamingo.
Also, we all know that Katakuri is on an other league itself compared to the other sweet commanders, and at the end of his fight with Luffy he doesn't consider strawhat as inferior to him at all.
So, Luffy at the end of WCI >= Katakuri >> Cracker > Doflamingo, right?
Well, we all know now that Luffy got demolished by Kaido in their first encounter, then he trained in Udon where he became physically stronger and developed 2 new stronger versions of armament haki, the barrier one and then the internal destruction one.
So internal destruction Luffy > barrier haki Luffy > Luffy in Udon (is phisically stronger) > Luffy at the start of wano >= Katakuri.
Then Luffy fought Kaido and also developed the coating CoC, even without G4 he did great against Kaido, and still got easily defeated in this chapter.
Kaido >> CoC Luffy > internal destruction Luffy.
The difference between a Kaido and a Doflamingo is insanelyyyyyy huuuuuuuuge and you still compare Doflamingo with the Admirals? I don't want to start the debate between admirals and yonko, but I don't think it is that huge, and I think we understimated a lot of characters, currently almost everyone surpassed Mingo, even current Law who could took some blows from Kaido, something that I think Doflamingo wouldn't be able to do, since he was phisically overpowered by Dressrosa Gear 4th.
I think that Doflamingo, compared to Kaido's crew, is likely comparable to Who's who, the guy is currently fighting someone as Jinbe so it seems resonable to me, but I know that you don't want characters like Zoro and Sanji surpassing Mingo, when they'd totally clean the floor with him, Roronoa already showed that and the cook will show it when he'll defeat Queen/King.
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Cracker being sent to fight Luffy by Big Mom doesn't automatically mean he's stronger than Doflamingo, imo.
Looking back on their fight, with the exception of cutting through Bound Man Luffy's haki-covered arm while he was off-guard (he was completely unable to cut through BM Luffy's haki when he tried to counter Kong Gun with Pretzel Roll), Cracker really didn't do anything that supports him being stronger than Doflamingo. He was also one-shotted the first time he took a hit during the battle.
Yeah, I'm also not going to get into the debate about Admirals and Yonko, or about Doflamingo being compared to Admirals (although he does have a couple feats against two of them, iirc).
If Oda wants Doflamingo to be strong enough to take Kaido's blows, he will be. Just like he made Law. It's true Dressrosa Gear 4th physically overpowered Doffy, but he was still able to withstand all of them except for KKG.
I can see why you would think that Doflamingo might be comparable to Who's Who, considering he's fighting Jinbe (who's comparable to a Yonko Commander) like you mentioned. However, Who's Who doesn't have a epithet that goes along with the cards naming theme of Kaido's Calamities like Doffy does, plus Doffy wasn't at peak performance when we saw him fight all-out in Dressrosa, so I personally have doubts that he would only just be comparable to Who's Who.
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I mean obviously if Oda wanted something to happen with a character then its going to happen, if Oda really wanted to he could have Nami one shot Big Mom and Kaido.
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Big Mom's opinion means nothing if she isn't omniscient, especially when Doflamingo likely hasn't shown his abilities in full (to her or any of her agents). We don't even know if the two of them have even met.
Katakuri is called the "strongest" of the Three Sweet Commanders. Does not mean he's automatically "stronger" than Cracker. We know his strength comes from his Future-Sight. Gear 4th Luffy was laying waste to him until Katakuri popped his Haki again. Even Doflamingo had superior reaction speed and could dodge Gear 4th attacks whereas Katakuri clearly needed Haki.
If anything, Doflamingo and Cracker > Katakuri without Haki. Katakuri has superiority via his Future-sight alone and it shows.
In Luffy's defense, he took Kaido's Thunder Bagua w/ no protection. Kaido was using Haoshoku and Luffy's face was not guarded w/ Haki.
Luffy and Kaido's fight has factors we don't even know about, and Luffy was not "easily" defeated in this chapter. We don't know how long they were going for or why Luffy suddenly lost.
Funny you say I "don't want people to surpass Mingo", yet I already pointed out I believe Zoro to be physically superior to him many weeks ago. Sanji is laughable, don't even argue him.
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I thought theres something stating Luffy and Kaido battled for like 20 minutes or something like that?
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I think it was a few dozen minutes
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Ah ok, tho it does give us some level of time table.
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@CinCameron20
I'll answer you in the general wano topic as suggested by @KingTempest.
Talking about the chapter, It wasn't a bad chapter at all in my opinion.
We could see Hera and even a new attack from Big Mom where she combined all the homies, it was cool and I didn't expected that It was required such a power to defeat Ulti, she's actually really powerful, Tobi roppo were possibly understimated.
Kidd's moment was badass, I am expecting more and more from him, I hope he can confirms that he's the rival of Luffy.
Talking about our main character, I didn't expect him to lose for the third time, he fired up Kaido so he did great, but yonkos are on a different level, Kaido almost crying was insane. Wow.
As a last thing: RIP Zeus, I actually emphatized for you.
I'll answer you in the general wano topic as suggested by @KingTempest.
Talking about the chapter, It wasn't a bad chapter at all in my opinion.
We could see Hera and even a new attack from Big Mom where she combined all the homies, it was cool and I didn't expected that It was required such a power to defeat Ulti, she's actually really powerful, Tobi roppo were possibly understimated.
Kidd's moment was badass, I am expecting more and more from him, I hope he can confirms that he's the rival of Luffy.
Talking about our main character, I didn't expect him to lose for the third time, he fired up Kaido so he did great, but yonkos are on a different level, Kaido almost crying was insane. Wow.
As a last thing: RIP Zeus, I actually emphatized for you.
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Enjoyed that chapter kinda sad Nami couldnt pull it off but it shows Ulti is pretty strong, Mamas new combo attack was pretty cool.
I honestly didnt think Luffy would beat Kaido 1v1 at this point, the Yonko are clearly on a different level.
I thought Kaidos comments and crying was actually pretty interesting and fitting for who we know he is, we know Kaido is emotional and loves to fight so realising Luffy wasnt able to continue he got emotional. I like stuff like this cause it shows even villains like Kaido are more then simply “evil powerhouses”, Odas villains all have legit personalities.
I honestly didnt think Luffy would beat Kaido 1v1 at this point, the Yonko are clearly on a different level.
I thought Kaidos comments and crying was actually pretty interesting and fitting for who we know he is, we know Kaido is emotional and loves to fight so realising Luffy wasnt able to continue he got emotional. I like stuff like this cause it shows even villains like Kaido are more then simply “evil powerhouses”, Odas villains all have legit personalities.
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And we had the actual audasity to have the yonko at High 7-A at one point lmao.
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That's not that audacious. It was a lowball, sure, but it's not too farfetched.
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a HORRIBLE lowball.
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It is looking more likely we had that right but did not account for Supreme King Haki.
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I have zero clue where you got this from a chapter with no calcs.
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I was the one who made them High 7-A. Damage wanted them to be 6-C when the calc got nuked.
Relax
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Still a horrid lowball.
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Discuss that in the general discussion
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What an unexpected chapter, proving once again, that the only predictable thing about One Piece is just how unpredictable it is ...
A bad day for Big Mom's older homies ... Zeus got eaten and Prometheus got rejected immediately
So Luffy lost a second time against Kaido ... It is actually not the first time this has happened. Luffy vs Kaido seems to be roughly repeating the Luffy vs Crocodile story arc :
The first fight being an absolute stomp > Luffy returns with improved knowledge but still loses > Luffy finally wins the third time around ??
What does everyone think?
Personally, I think it will be beyond badass if Luffy punches Kaido down through Onigashima like he did to Crocodile up through the bedrock
A bad day for Big Mom's older homies ... Zeus got eaten and Prometheus got rejected immediately
So Luffy lost a second time against Kaido ... It is actually not the first time this has happened. Luffy vs Kaido seems to be roughly repeating the Luffy vs Crocodile story arc :
The first fight being an absolute stomp > Luffy returns with improved knowledge but still loses > Luffy finally wins the third time around ??
What does everyone think?
Personally, I think it will be beyond badass if Luffy punches Kaido down through Onigashima like he did to Crocodile up through the bedrock
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I actually liked Zeus.
Zeus had nothing to do with Big Mom falling. He was trapped much harsher than Prometheus was (Zeus was put in a box meant to prohibit his powers and Prometheus was just cut up), Zeus only leaves when he's extremely tempted, but when Linlin was there he followed her no questions asked.
When he's freed, the first thing he does is look for Linlin.
Zeus was awesome, a good written side character.
Screw Prometheus
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I think that peak Luffy + peak Zoro + peak Yamato could defeat Kaido on his own, and that peak Kidd + peak Law + all the peak non-traitor scabbards could defeat Big Mom, but we never get an ideal matchup situation.
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Healthy Yamato, Zoro and Luffy could see beating the current Kaido after all the damage hes taken but I definitely don't see Kidd, Law and the Scabbards beating BM, not her Arc to lose in.
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Blackbeard please, i need someone able to kill Big Mom ASAP.
