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Nasuverse Discussion Board (New Forum)

Franstel said:
Apparently not since you can't have tier 0 powers without yourself being tier 0

"There cannot be a character that has Tier 0 power, but some nature that is distinct from that"

"Which is to say a character who is physically 3-D but has Tier 0 Attack Potency is impossible."

From the CRT
Click to expand...
Are you serious??, Mystic Eyes of Death Perspective is a specific hax, you can have tier 0 hax
 
depend if it is the remake or the classic version, only Acrueid consistently regened from his cut, but well it take a great deal of effort from her to regen, from the classic, i'm not even touching the remake version so idk he she easily regen or not
 
BestMGQScalerEver said:
Would tier 0 MEoDP be appropriate for someone like Tohno? I swear some people can resist it to a degree or regenerate from being cut by it.
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no, because MEODP evolves over time to kill things it previously could not as shown in fight against NRVNQSR. Tohno's MEODP keeps getting more busted and evolves more. Ryougi's eyes could kill all things without exception in knk epilogue, and tohno/nanaya's eyes likely evolved to that level in far future after eclipse
 
Vietthai96 said:
depend if it is the remake or the classic version, only Acrueid consistently regened from his cut, but well it take a great deal of effort from her to regen, from the classic, i'm not even touching the remake version so idk he she easily regen or not
Click to expand...
In the remake, it took her an entire night to come back and was weakened to the point of being unable to use her Marble Phantasm without dying
 
Vietthai96 said:
depend if it is the remake or the classic version, only Acrueid consistently regened from his cut, but well it take a great deal of effort from her to regen, from the classic, i'm not even touching the remake version so idk he she easily regen or not
Click to expand...
In the remake, it can completely kill arcueid if tohno finds the lines of death that makes arcueid "perfect", when he does he can see the lines of death in arcueid and permanently kill her.

Even in luminary, he just never did because arcueid found out and stored the lines of death using event storage.
 
People should not expect that the Root or Shiki would be Tier 0 under the new revisions, should they pass in their current form. A Tier 0 being cannot have parts. Shiki directly attests to being a part of the Root. There are other disqualifiers, but that's the most straightforward.
 
Deagonx said:
People should not expect that the Root or Shiki would be Tier 0 under the new revisions, should they pass in their current form. A Tier 0 being cannot have parts. Shiki directly attests to being a part of the Root. There are other disqualifiers, but that's the most straightforward.
Click to expand...
We shall see🗿
 
From what I can see, and based on all the conditions Ultima created for Tier 0, The Root perfectly qualifies for Tier 0. It's not even funny. And Shiki is the Root (Void).

Regarding Tohno, I think his MEoDP at its peak should be Tier 0 but idk.
 
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Deagonx said:
People should not expect that the Root or Shiki would be Tier 0 under the new revisions, should they pass in their current form. A Tier 0 being cannot have parts. Shiki directly attests to being a part of the Root. There are other disqualifiers, but that's the most straightforward.
Click to expand...
Tbh I agree, the idea of tier 0 hax is kinda odd too lmao.
 
Theoretical said:
In the remake, it can completely kill arcueid if tohno finds the lines of death that makes arcueid "perfect", when he does he can see the lines of death in arcueid and permanently kill her.

Even in luminary, he just never did because arcueid found out and stored the lines of death using event storage.
Click to expand...
In the OG it can kill Arcuied as well if Tohno gets serious enough. OG MEODP erases the very meaning of existence conceptually.
Tdjwo said:
From what I can see, and based on all the conditions Ultima created for Tier 0, The Root perfectly qualifies for Tier 0. It's not even funny. And Shiki is the Root (Void).

Regarding Tohno, I think his MEoDP at its peak should be Tier 0 but idk.
Click to expand...
Bro, listen to my opinion. You should not rely on vsb putting root at tier 0 to prove nasuverse is strong. The site changes it's tiering system periodically to upgrade or downgrade characters, which is why i stopped debating here.
The root is omnipotent anyways, so it cannot be surpassed by anything regardless of any tiering system and can only be rivalled by other omnipotent characters
 
Grand_Saver_Ritsuka said:
In the OG it can kill Arcuied as well if Tohno gets serious enough. OG MEODP erases the very meaning of existence conceptually.

Bro, listen to my opinion. You should not rely on vsb putting root at tier 0 to prove nasuverse is strong. The site changes it's tiering system periodically to upgrade or downgrade characters, which is why i stopped debating here.
The root is omnipotent anyways, so it cannot be surpassed by anything regardless of any tiering system and can only be rivalled by other omnipotent characters
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Out of pure curiosity, what's your reasoning as why you believe the root is omnipotent, and what's your definition of omnipotence anyways ? This is because omnipotence varies depending on personal interpretation so I'm always curious as to see what others view it as.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
Out of pure curiosity, what's your reasoning as why you believe the root is omnipotent, and what's your definition of omnipotence anyways ? This is because omnipotence varies depending on personal interpretation so I'm always curious as to see what others view it as.
Click to expand...
IMO omnipotent is a person doing all things that is logically possible, so no doing contradictory stuff like 4+5=2. The root in nasuverse is directly compared to the one from neoplatonism, and is said to be everything and nothing aka everything possible is in the root in abstract potential and thus nothing, thus it contains all things possible.
 
Grand_Saver_Ritsuka said:
Bro, listen to my opinion. You should not rely on vsb putting root at tier 0 to prove nasuverse is strong. The site changes it's tiering system periodically to upgrade or downgrade characters, which is why i stopped debating here.
The root is omnipotent anyways, so it cannot be surpassed by anything regardless of any tiering system and can only be rivalled by other omnipotent characters
Click to expand...
There's a reason why I stopped talking here for months (outside of me forgetting my log in details too)
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
Out of pure curiosity, what's your reasoning as why you believe the root is omnipotent, and what's your definition of omnipotence anyways ? This is because omnipotence varies depending on personal interpretation so I'm always curious as to see what others view it as.
Click to expand...
The nasuverse is largely inspired by alot of metaphysical notions rather than mathematical ones. The root was said to have the capacity to record anything and create anything. Well one is the akashic records and the other one is the spiral of origin (the records are said to be an aspect of the spiral of origin).

The metaphysical notions in question are kabbalah, neoplatonism (surprisingly its very consistent, it is said things have become too complex to go back to the source which is simple, there are two souls in the nasuverse said in knk and case files one exists outside of false material in the akashic records where the origin is exists, which the origin is said to be the true essence of the soul which is unchangeable and exist independent of the material world), Taoism (literally the idea of Kara being different from the Swirl of the root, comes from Tai chi where it's stated that the unnamed tao "the tao that can't be told" is different from the tao that can be told "wuji".

There are a couple of examples that I didn't go over too. For whatever reason people here still think the Swirl of the root, the akashic records and Kara are all the same thing even when the source material says something different consistently.
 
Deagonx said:
People should not expect that the Root or Shiki would be Tier 0 under the new revisions, should they pass in their current form. A Tier 0 being cannot have parts. Shiki directly attests to being a part of the Root. There are other disqualifiers, but that's the most straightforward.
Click to expand...
What about Yog-Sothoth?
 
MrUnderlord said:
Yog-Sothoth > any other outer god present in story. If any of them is 1-A, then Yog-Sothoth should be 1-A+ or High 1-A
Click to expand...
I don't think the new standards would make Yog that much more powerful than the other outer gods. Does he have Meta qualitative superiority over the other outer gods?
 
Tdjwo said:
I don't think the new standards would make Yog that much more powerful than the other outer gods. Does he have Meta qualitative superiority over the other outer gods?
Click to expand...
no. it'd just be a scaling chain between all of the shown outer gods, with yog being the strongest
 
MrUnderlord said:
What about Yog-Sothoth?
Click to expand...
Definitely not. Yog is just one of several archetypes in the ultimate void. He is chief among the archetypes but there's explicitly multiple. Yog is the archetypes for Carter and other great thinkers, wizards, artists, etc. Carter having the Supreme Archetype is the explanation for his zeal for ancient mysteries.

So due to that, and many other things, Yog is not a monad and wouldn't meet the proposed tier 0 requirements.
 
Tdjwo said:
I don't think the new standards would make Yog that much more powerful than the other outer gods. Does he have Meta qualitative superiority over the other outer gods?
Click to expand...
KingNanaya said:
no. it'd just be a scaling chain between all of the shown outer gods, with yog being the strongest
Click to expand...
In fact, Yog-Sothoth is higher than any other Outer God in Nesuverse. All Outer Gods exists within the Outer Universe (which, in fact, just one part of the Yog-Sothoth). So, I think, he have supremacy upon them.

Deagonx said:
Definitely not. Yog is just one of several archetypes in the ultimate void. He is chief among the archetypes but there's explicitly multiple. Yog is the archetypes for Carter and other great thinkers, wizards, artists, etc. Carter having the Supreme Archetype is the explanation for his zeal for ancient mysteries.

So due to that, and many other things, Yog is not a monad and wouldn't meet the proposed tier 0 requirements.
Click to expand...
But Ultimate Mystery lies beyond even Ultimate Void and IS the Yog-Sothoth itself. Also other archetypes is being confirmed to be Outer Gods (Azathoth, Nyarlathotep e.t.c.), so I think that revision about his non tier 0 stuff will be actually useless and pointless.
 
There are also some old paradoxal thing about Yog-Sothoth and Root. How we can explain their relationships? (Outer Universe were described as thing that doesn't abide by rules of the universe at all and all rules, in fact, comes from the Root)

Nasu just shoved in the outer gods for fun, not really thinking about the fact that it would break his whole verse
 
Deagonx said:
I might have misunderstood. I thought you were asking about Lovecraft. I don't know of anything in Lovecraft suggesting Yog is beyond the ultimate void.
Click to expand...
Wait. This message refers to Lovecraft's Yog-Sothoth. U can check Cthulhu Mythos Cosmology blog for more info about Ultimate Mystery.
 
Deagonx said:
I might have misunderstood. I thought you were asking about Lovecraft. I don't know of anything in Lovecraft suggesting Yog is beyond the ultimate void.
Click to expand...
The Ultimate Mystery and Supreme Archetype are baseline Tier 0 because the Ultimate Mystery exists "behind all scenes and dreams" as the "final cosmic reality" transcending all local and partial perceptions, hidden behind the Veil, a barrier at least comparable in relative scope to the First Gate and Ultimate Gate, which separates it from the Ultimate Void, a "genuine" and "ultimate" infinity this secret nevertheless transcends by at least as much as the latter eclipses the infinite-but-still-limited lower realms, and the Supreme Archetype scales to the Ultimate Mystery's rating because it exists as an all-encompassing, limitless oneness of essence animating all existence in an "unbounded sweep" that would logically include the Ultimate Mystery, reinforced by how Yog-Sothoth's "awful wonder" made Randolph Carter forget the "supreme horror" of the Ultimate Void, corroborating the Supreme Archetype's similarly immense superiority over the latter.
Click to expand...
 
MrUnderlord said:
Wait. This message refers to Lovecraft's Yog-Sothoth. U can check Cthulhu Mythos Cosmology blog for more info about Ultimate Mystery.
Click to expand...
That's odd. The ultimate mystery is just the information about the void that was given to Carter, we shouldn't consider it an "entity" or something that is present in a scaling chain.

As for the justification for Yog being "beyond the void" it just seems to be that Carter was more perplexed/terrified by Yog than the void but I don't think very good reasoning. Of course an abyssal god that you are a derivation of would be more perplexing than a void. A void is just a void.
 
Deagonx said:
That's odd. The ultimate mystery is just the information about the void that was given to Carter, we shouldn't consider it an "entity" or something that is present in a scaling chain.
Click to expand...
However, Yog-Sothoth in fact is an All-encompassing oness which actually contains even the Ultimate Void. I think it's fine that Yog is above Ultimate Void.
 
Deagonx said:
Nothing in the story actually says this.
Click to expand...
"It was All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self". Clearly says that Yog-Sothoth contains everything and Outer Gods are selfs (like Nyarlathotep or Azathoth who just mindless monster). And "limitless being" clearly contains Ultimate Void as part of this limitless being.
 
Everything after your quote is extrapolating well beyond what the sentence actually said, and that isn't what the quote is actually talking about. It's just explaining Carter's ego death and the multiplicity of selves within the archetype. Yog is explicitly stated to be one of multiple archetypes in the void.
 
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