Avalon Scaling Fix

[Firestorm808]

No,absolutely none.

Really? Nothing short of the Root itself?

 

[Wankbreaker]

Really? Nothing short of the Root itself?

Yep, even direct root derived powers such as the mystic eyes of death and true magic do not work.

 

[Firestorm808]

Yep, even direct root derived powers such as the mystic eyes of death and true magic do not work.

I see. With that in mind, what are the current justifications that X realm or being is dimensionally superior to Avalon?

 

[Wankbreaker]

I see. With that in mind, what are the current justifications that X realm or being is dimensionally superior to Avalon?

Literally just that they can “destroy the world”, and that world must also include avalon.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Yeah by deploying the bounded field, it's not teleporting the user. It's literally classified as a Barrier Type Noble Phantasm and defensive magic. Can't call Teleportation defensive.

Avalon is noted to not be defense, but isolation.

Avalon for defensive, Excalibur for offensive, makes perfect sense to me.

Keep in mind, Arcueid should have far greater offensive power when she’s Archetype Earth, and even she says that nothing in existence is able to destroy the earth.

Using this same argument, Arcueid would also scale to the inner sea, since she comes from the exact same source, to the point where she calls Excalibur her “cousin”…. but she admits to not being able to destroy it.

We can also equalize them since they were created at the same time. In LB6 we saw that Altira's Spirit Origin was going to be used to forge Excalibur, before Muramasa took over. Altira's Spirit Origin can forge Excalibur alongside Avalon that can deploy the bounded Field of Avalon.

They’re deploying representations of Avalon, not the actual area.

 

[Robo432343]

Okay. Is there any direct implication that something would affect Avalon like the outer gods or something?

we have this stuff breeze pointed out

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't they still end up scaling to Avalon? Because Sefar invaded the Earth, killed a bunch of gods, and burnt almost the entirety of the planet's surface. The Fairies had to forge Excalibur in the Inner Sea of the Planet to defeat her. I believe being forged in the Inner Sea doesn't exactly mean that it's potency is equivalent to it but we do have this;

So Excalibur's true power lies within it's sheath (Avalon). But what if Excalibur can unleash that true power depending on the circumstance?

In the above, it shows that Excalibur's true power is exerted when facing an enemy can threaten the planet. And there's many characters that can threaten the planet. Although I do have a problem with my own argument here. That is Excalibur's true power that lies within Avalon. It could just be referring that Avalon is the "true power" because of its defensive properties, meaning that the "True Power" that Excalibur unleashes when facing an enemy that can threaten the planet, is not the same "true power."

However, considering that Avalon and Excalibur were forged at the same time in the Inner Sea of the Planet, and Excalibur was used to defeat Sefar, I believe Excalibur scaling to Avalon when facing an enemy that threatens the planet is warranted.

 

[Wankbreaker]

I was free for a single day.

 

[BreezeHM]

Avalon is noted to not be defense, but isolation.

Defense or isolation, doesn't really change that it's a bounded field deploying the representation of Avalon, the space that blocks up to the sixth dimension.

•Avalon: The Everdistant Utopia
The matching “scabbard” of the holy sword Excalibur. The wielder does not age, and injuries will also quickly heal.
After invoking its true name, Avalon dissipates as tiny particles into the air, and shields the wielder from all interference. No damage can be done to the wielder when a state of absolute defence is initiated. Even interference from the parallel world based on the Second Magic will be blocked. An “absolute defence” that can even repel the assault of True Magic, it is a True Magic in itself. No one can harm the tranquil King that stands in the land of Avalon.
When Avalon was unleashed, not even the King of Heroes could harm Saber.

Keep in mind, Arcueid should have far greater offensive power when she’s Archetype Earth, and even she says that nothing in existence is able to destroy the earth.

If you're referring to this statement, Arcueid isn't saying nothing in existence is capable of destroying Earth, but nothing in existence has enough power to destroy a World. You can see she's talking about how Chaos is a World of its own. It doesn't mean Chaos has a 6D Space like Avalon. Also nobody having enough power to destroy a World is clearly retconned by now.

Spoiler: Arjuna Alter

『Mahāpralaya』
Rank: EX
NP Type: Anti-World
Range: 100
Maximum Targets: Everything within range

The Sword of Recursion That Arbitrates the Great Dissolution.
Arjuna's other power bestowed to him along with his "Anti-Evil" skill, which is the sword of recursion that arbitrates dissolution. When everything is set to meet its end, he is tasked to swing his sword to eradicate evil and the world. Once he swings the sword, the whole of the world is completely destroyed. Mahāpralaya pertains to the moment Brahma dies and the universe comes to dissolution...in other words, it indicates saṃvartakalpa.

Though, even the peerless Arjuna is unable to wield the sword's full power once he is summoned as a Servant. But the fact that its destructive powers are simply condensed and limited makes it no different than "Pashupata," and it seems Arjuna thinks it's still quite usable.

Using this same argument, Arcueid would also scale to the inner sea, since she comes from the exact same source, to the point where she calls Excalibur her “cousin”…. but she admits to not being able to destroy it.

I don't see why she wouldn't scale and being unable to destroy a World is retconned.

They’re deploying representations of Avalon, not the actual area.

Yes.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Defense or isolation, doesn't really change that it's a bounded field deploying the representation of Avalon, the space that blocks up to the sixth dimension.

It’s transporting the user to the actual area.

If you're referring to this statement, Arcueid isn't saying nothing in existence is capable of destroying Earth, but nothing in existence has enough power to destroy a World. You can see she's talking about how Chaos is a World of its own. It doesn't mean Chaos has a 6D Space like Avalon. Also nobody having enough power to destroy a World is clearly retconned by now.

Spoiler: Arjuna Alter

『Mahāpralaya』
Rank: EX
NP Type: Anti-World
Range: 100
Maximum Targets: Everything within range

The Sword of Recursion That Arbitrates the Great Dissolution.
Arjuna's other power bestowed to him along with his "Anti-Evil" skill, which is the sword of recursion that arbitrates dissolution. When everything is set to meet its end, he is tasked to swing his sword to eradicate evil and the world. Once he swings the sword, the whole of the world is completely destroyed. Mahāpralaya pertains to the moment Brahma dies and the universe comes to dissolution...in other words, it indicates saṃvartakalpa.

Though, even the peerless Arjuna is unable to wield the sword's full power once he is summoned as a Servant. But the fact that its destructive powers are simply condensed and limited makes it no different than "Pashupata," and it seems Arjuna thinks it's still quite usable.

Arcueid says that “Ever since the Earth was created, no being with such power has existed.”

The description of Chaos (a singular world where heaven and earth is fused), is also given to the primordial state of the planet.

Also, the Arjuna stuff is obviously referring to the Indian texture of the lostbelt.

I don't see why she wouldn't scale and being unable to destroy a World is retconned.

If even the Mystic eyes of death perception, which can perceive the end of all things cannot kill Avalon, what makes you think a mere big energy beam can?

Yes.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I was free for a single day.

Suffer!

 

[Firestorm808]

My current vote is to find a replacement for the Avalon scaling.

 

[Wankbreaker]

My current vote is to find a replacement for the Avalon scaling.

So, you agree with the thread?

 

[Mageman460]

My current vote is to find a replacement for the Avalon scaling.

Well you're in luck! Most Tier 1s actually scale to the Moon Cell atm more than Avalon atm.

So yeah, most Tier 1s get scaling from Moon Cell not Avalon, with Moon Cell > Avalon as it is able to recreate Avalon (Sheath) alongside Artoria, on top of the 8D barrier it can create. Beyond that, the Avalon stuff from destroying the planet comes from Avalon being the literal core of the planet. Do note, this revision was done well before LB 6's official translation.

To talk a bit about the stuff in the OP, Avalon being unaffected by the bleaching phenomenon makes sense, it only affected the surface of the planet and PHH. Imaginary Number Space/Reverse Side were unaffected. This is why Chaldea can travel through them just fine... well as fine as one can travel through there.

During the Incineration of Humanity, Merlin could also physically leave Avalon due to changes caused by said apocalypse. In other words, Avalon was affected by the Incineration.

Avalon is clearly not isolated from all parallel timelines. The reason is simply Lady Avalon existing. Or rather, another Merlin. Fou/Cath Palug and Primate Murder's existence also show this.

Also ... none of the quotes are actually sourced in the OP. Sure some have an image, but there if you could list where they are from please.

tl;dr
Most characters already don't scale to destroying Avalon.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Well you're in luck! Most Tier 1s actually scale to the Moon Cell atm more than Avalon atm.

That is a complete and utter lie. I’ve talked to some people involved + checked old threads.

1. The mooncell stuff is only rated a “possibly”. The concrete tier 1 comes from Avalon. Also, the only reason the Moon Cell’s 8D rating was even accepted was because of Avalon?

So yeah, most Tier 1s get scaling from Moon Cell not Avalon, with Moon Cell > Avalon as it is able to recreate Avalon (Sheath) alongside Artoria, on top of the 8D barrier it can create.

Yea, the sheath itself is not 6D. It’s entire power is to send the user to the inner sea.
The inner sea is 6D. The sheath is not.
Even shirou can project it under the right conditions.

Also keep in mind, the moon cell glitches out just from a heavily weakened Arcueid existing within it. It’s not able to handle the strain. Yet the inner sea lacks this issue. Curious.

Beyond that, the Avalon stuff from destroying the planet comes from Avalon being the literal core of the planet.

It is where the planet’s soul is kept. Tsuki R calls the realm purely conceptual in nature, so it has no physical presence. It’s even noted to be utterly disconnected from the surface, and the universe.

このミクトランが既に『星の内海うちうみ』のような場所です。テペウ 地上も宇宙も閉ざされた、変化のない世界です。 ここで生まれたアーキタイプは、とても狭苦せまくるしい。


" Mictlan is already somewhat like the 'Inner Sea of the Planet'. Closed off from both the surface and the universe, a world without change. The archetypes born here must feel like it is extremely narrow and oppressive."

It is not a physical “core” that exists.

Do note, this revision was done well before LB 6's official translation.

To talk a bit about the stuff in the OP, Avalon being unaffected by the bleaching phenomenon makes sense, it only affected the surface of the planet and PHH. Imaginary Number Space/Reverse Side were unaffected. This is why Chaldea can travel through them just fine... well as fine as one can travel through there.

During the Incineration of Humanity, Merlin could also physically leave Avalon due to changes caused by said apocalypse. In other words, Avalon was affected by the Incineration.

Avalon is explicitly called a realm that never changes. And Merlin says it is involved and unaffected by the happenings on the surface.

Avalon is clearly not isolated from all parallel timelines. The reason is simply Lady Avalon existing. Or rather, another Merlin. Fou/Cath Palug and Primate Murder's existence also show this.

I’m really not sure how this relates?

Bedivere exists in a completely different timeline from the world Artoria exists in, yet he ended up in the same exact “Avalon” that Merlin exists in.

The king who stayed behind on this earth to lead the dead. Or the once and future king who was transported to Avalon. Of course I know the one who went to Avalon. But the King Arthur you know is..

...the one who stayed behind on this earth. However, I couldn't find what I was looking for. I never found what I was looking for. In the end, I ended up a living corpse washed up to this place.

Also keep in mind, the Second magic is completely useless against avalon, and it can mess with every parallel world.

Also ... none of the quotes are actually sourced in the OP. Sure some have an image, but there if you could list where they are from please.

tl;dr
Most characters already don't scale to destroying Avalon.

tl;dr
that is a lie. please don’t be dishonest.

 

[Mageman460]

That is a complete and utter lie. I’ve talked to some people involved + checked old threads.

1. The mooncell stuff is only rated a “possibly”. The concrete tier 1 comes from Avalon. Also, the only reason the Moon Cell’s 8D rating was even accepted was because of Avalon?

So no. If you actually look at the profiles, most of them mention the Moon Cell. The Moon Cell scaling mostly comes from Kiara and Tiamat/Goetia being above Kiara due to being fully mature Beasts and Kiara's own statements. Then we have a few characters scaling to Tiamat and then characters scaling to her. Then there is the fact that Grand Servants being able to beat Beasts, which would include Kiara. Then Artemis scales because she can clash with Grand Archer (and the faulty Avalon reason yes.) Other powerful Divine Spirits and the Machine Gods scale to Artemis.

tl;dr
that is a lie. please don’t be dishonest.

Also, yes. You did not cite any of your quotes. You have three images, and the rest of the quotes have no images, no citation, nothing. Even the ones with images you don't say where they are from. Most of the rest of my post is also me literally stating facts, so please do not call someone else a liar.

Also, note I misremembered the Avalon being the core of the planet thing being in the main revision CRT. It was brought up later in the discussion thread or Discord, don't remember where exactly.
Here is the original upgrade thread.

 

[Wankbreaker]

So no. If you actually look at the profiles, most of them mention the Moon Cell. The Moon Cell scaling mostly comes from Kiara and Tiamat/Goetia being above Kiara due to being fully mature Beasts and Kiara's own statements. Then we have a few characters scaling to Tiamat and then characters scaling to her. Then there is the fact that Grand Servants being able to beat Beasts, which would include Kiara. Then Artemis scales because she can clash with Grand Archer (and the faulty Avalon reason yes.) Other powerful Divine Spirits and the Machine Gods scale to Artemis.

Those 8D ratings are still a possibly , and all of the 6D ratings in some way or another, trace back to Avalon. (Unless there is another 6D mooncell scale I did not know about?)

It is completely correct to say Avalon is the primary rating here, especially since it’s the only concrete one.

Also, yes. You did not cite any of your quotes. You have three images, and the rest of the quotes have no images, no citation, nothing. Even the ones with images you don't say where they are from. Most of the rest of my post is also me literally stating facts, so please do not call someone else a liar.

Atlas academy is a free resource, with archives of the entire script of FGO. A lot of the quotes are from FGO, so you can easily just look here.

[JP] Scripts Search - Atlas Academy DB

Atlas Academy DB - FGO Game Data Navigator

apps.atlasacademy.io

[NA] Scripts Search - Atlas Academy DB

Atlas Academy DB - FGO Game Data Navigator

apps.atlasacademy.io

Also, note I misremembered the Avalon being the core of the planet thing being in the main revision CRT. It was brought up later in the discussion thread or Discord, don't remember where exactly.
Here is the original upgrade thread.

I have Crimson added on discord,so I just asked him about it, to make 100% sure. (Let’s hope I get a response today, at least)

 

[Violatas]

The site's back up. Boo

Well you're in luck! Most Tier 1s actually scale to the Moon Cell atm more than Avalon atm.

So yeah, most Tier 1s get scaling from Moon Cell not Avalon, with Moon Cell > Avalon

The cast scales above Avalon but nothing in verse explicitly can't affect it... Artoria's NP was useless all along. Was she stupid?

In all seriousness I want people to consider the faulty scaling this causes. No Magecraft or even the True Magics can't affect Avalon at all, and yet many characters are tiered as being able to punch through it... including people under the likes of Zelretch who as mentioned before can't affect Avalon either with his Second Magic. Zelretch, who mind you, is among the strongest in verse and with way better range with his hax as well

 

[Wankbreaker]

The site's back up. Boo


The cast scales above Avalon but nothing in verse explicitly can't affect it... Artoria's NP was useless all along. Was she stupid?

In all seriousness I want people to consider the faulty scaling this causes. No Magecraft or even the True Magics can't affect Avalon at all, and yet many characters are tiered as being able to punch through it... including people under the likes of Zelretch who as mentioned before can't affect Avalon either with his Second Magic. Zelretch, who mind you, is among the strongest in verse and with way better range with his hax as well

Arcueid notes that no one in existence is able to destroy it, which should include herself, and she is the 2nd strongest character, only under ORT.
You also have the MEODP from Shiki Ryougi being completely unable to affect it, when in the exact same scene it has no issue cutting Ries’s lines while her conceptual shield was protecting her

With this faulty scaling we have

Arcueid > pretty much everyone else > Arcueid

 

[Cautiousexedius]

Also… that’s just blatantly wrong

The scan I sent also says otherwise what's your point, this is not a rebuttal neither does it respond to the categorical error of scaling true magic, above true magic itself when avalon inherently falls under the category of true magic.

Talking about how ORT blows up the physical planet does not debunk the argument that blowing up the “planet” doesn’t equal the destruction of Avalon,but I’ll bite anyway.

Goetia burned up human history, yet we know it only happened in the FGO timeline.

Lol, this is a terrible analogy in the eyes of everyone who has even scratched FGO.

Simply operating it does not require an analysis of the contents. Animusphere utilized the duplicated soul of Earth without opening it, functioning solely as a simulator to observe 100 years into the future. Consequently, once it is stopped, it is deemed impossible to restart, as no one understands the internal structure. It can also be used as an unwavering map of human history, serving as a support system for pseudo-spiritual particle transformation and ray shift. At the start of FGO's second part, this treasure of humanity was frozen and sealed by the alternate world servant, Anastasia.
Chaldeas is an exact copy of the planet, this is stated by da vinci, a person who prior to this, said nobody can destroy the planet too.

This is why the Foreign God, could generate lostbelts to begin with, by taking simulations of parallel worlds recorded in the soul of the planet, of which it seemingly contains even records of pruned timelines.
its not the planet is 'impossible' to destroy, its that nothing native to the planet, has the necessary capacity and tools to destroy the planet, because of its defense mechanism, this is the most elaborate reason we get from the planet being indestructible,

This doesn't apply to beings not native to the planet, like Arcueid.

Arcueid also says nothing in existence can destroy the entire planet, but you seem the be ignoring that.

Seriously, at what point do we start reflecting on our own responses? If I ignored Arcueid saying the planet cannot be destroyed, by directly sending a statement of Arcueid acknowledging the age of will, as coming about, with the precondition of the planet having to end first, of which she admits that to be true and says such an 'end' (of the planet) is merely a conclusion and she's okay with it.

And you don't respond, outside of just saying "you ignored my evidence", wouldn't that mean, you also ignored the evidence I gave, you can't always assume your interpretation of the verse is always correct and every type moon scaler against you is wrong.

And if you think they are wrong, atleast "give a response" to the evidence provided, from the very source you use, which makes a statement that conflicts with your interpretation, of her saying you can't destroy the planet.

The rest is irrelevant, considering we actually see this happen:

First of all let's assume, Tohno Shiki in the Ciel route couldn't see the lines of death in the soul, but could at Arcueids route, Shiki Ryougi can't see the lines of death for words but Void Shiki, Tohno Shiki had to fry his brain from just extending the range of his mystic eyes in the Arcueid route against Roa.

Now does that mean in every instance, where a character cannot see the lines of death, implies a limit to the eyes, instead of a limit of how individuals perceive or cognize the idea of death?

Nasu: Well, it's just a rule of thumb, but if it's the normal Shiki then she can kill everything that physically decays. The thing with words is that she doesn't regard their death as "decay" but rather "fading into oblivion". Takeuchi: Ah, so it's a problem of recognition, then. Nasu: Of course, that realm of recognition is already no problem at all for the inhuman Miss " ".

 

[Cautiousexedius]

All good and all but…. The concept doesn’t exist in 4 dimensional INS.

Amazing and? It not existing in a different dimension, doesn't imply the parallel worlds cap at 4-dimensional.

Lol, INS is the complete opposite of real space in respects to its laws, that's why they say it exists on a negative vector, maybe that's also why they have different laws? Something we already know to be true.

This doesn't prove the multiverse is 4-dimensional, even if we assume your interpretation to be correct, because it's simply contradictory.

If you're deriving the conclusion that the multiverse caps at 4-dimensional, because a separate "4-dimensional space" (even tho the INS is not even just 4-dimensional to begin with but whatever) doesn't have entropy and the example they give, in relation to the multiverse utilizes entropy.

It's internally contradictory, because in your proposal, you postulate that the 4th dimension is time and your interpretation, has it, that time exists as its own separate vector to the 3-dimensional space.

Because the INS is not the separate vector they refer to, even if you assume the INS is 4-dimensional.

 

[Wankbreaker]

The scan I sent also says otherwise what's your point, this is not a rebuttal neither does it respond to the categorical error of scaling true magic, above true magic itself when avalon inherently falls under the category of true magic.

What? Avalon isnt true magic.

the number of things that can be called “magic” has been reduced to a mere five.

These slots are all taken by the 5 magicians. And Avalon can block every single one,which wouldn’t be possible if they operated at the same level.

Lol, this is a terrible analogy in the eyes of everyone who has even scratched FGO.

This isn’t an Analogy. Goetia’s burning of human history is confirmed not to extend past the timeline it was executed in.

Simply operating it does not require an analysis of the contents. Animusphere utilized the duplicated soul of Earth without opening it, functioning solely as a simulator to observe 100 years into the future. Consequently, once it is stopped, it is deemed impossible to restart, as no one understands the internal structure. It can also be used as an unwavering map of human history, serving as a support system for pseudo-spiritual particle transformation and ray shift. At the start of FGO's second part, this treasure of humanity was frozen and sealed by the alternate world servant, Anastasia.
Chaldeas is an exact copy of the planet, this is stated by da vinci, a person who prior to this, said nobody can destroy the planet too.

This is why the Foreign God, could generate lostbelts to begin with, by taking simulations of parallel worlds recorded in the soul of the planet, of which it seemingly contains even records of pruned timelines.
its not the planet is 'impossible' to destroy, its that nothing native to the planet, has the necessary capacity and tools to destroy the planet, because of its defense mechanism, this is the most elaborate reason we get from the planet being indestructible,

The counterforce is not a shield. It summons guardians, or influences and buffs people with psychic powers/random people to do the job. The “defensive measures” are just summoning people to get rid of the threat.

Arcueid is powerful enough to deal with any CG (not like they would target her anyway, as she is the incarnation of the Earth itself.), and she still makes that statement.

This doesn't apply to beings not native to the planet, like Arcueid.

Arcueid was made in the inner sea of the planet. That’s about as native as you can get.

Seriously, at what point do we start reflecting on our own responses? If I ignored Arcueid saying the planet cannot be destroyed, by directly sending a statement of Arcueid acknowledging the age of will, as coming about, with the precondition of the planet having to end first, of which she admits that to be true and says such an 'end' (of the planet) is merely a conclusion and she's okay with it.

The planet “dies” in notes in the year 3000. Yet there are other parallel timelines that extend past this and even the world of Notes itself still exists. Gaia is even able to call the Ultimate Ones to kill off all life. You know that means that the planet didn’t actually die, right? All of the parallel timelines are just its dreams. So if it actually truly dies, that would mean every timeline would shut off. Which doesn’t happen here.

And you don't respond, outside of just saying "you ignored my evidence", wouldn't that mean, you also ignored the evidence I gave, you can't always assume your interpretation of the verse is always correct and every type moon scaler against you is wrong.

And if you think they are wrong, atleast "give a response" to the evidence provided, from the very source you use, which makes a statement that conflicts with your interpretation, of her saying you can't destroy the planet.

First of all let's assume, Tohno Shiki in the Ciel route couldn't see the lines of death in the soul, but could at Arcueids route,

Source this?

Shiki Ryougi can't see the lines of death for words but Void Shiki,

guess who is on the screen. take a guess

Tohno Shiki had to fry his brain from just extending the range of his mystic eyes in the Arcueid route against Roa.

Yea,tohno was extending the range of his death boundary. That is completely different from not being able to see someone’s death. Not applicable here.

Now does that mean in every instance, where a character cannot see the lines of death, implies a limit to the eyes, instead of a limit of how individuals perceive or cognize the idea of death?

Well, for starters, all psychic abilities and powers (which includes the MEODP, btw), are granted to humanity by the counterforce, so that they can act as Guardians when needed. This is why Ryougi gets plot armor in KNK,the counterforce sometimes pulls her strings.

It makes complete sense for the source of those abilities (the Planet) to be above them.




Those who do not conform to the rules of "abberation" and possess supernatural abilities as pure humans. These are also said to be a form of deterrence created by humanity’s unconscious. The objects to be deterred are, of course, those that threaten humans standing at the pinnacle of primates.

Humans who come to possess these abilities do not need to learn magecraft as an acquired skill. Psychic abilities are the ultimate ability achieved by an independent human species that disregards the principles of yin and yang—a natural interference method that exists outside natural laws.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Amazing and? It not existing in a different dimension, doesn't imply the parallel worlds cap at 4-dimensional.

Lol, INS is the complete opposite of real space in respects to its laws, that's why they say it exists on a negative vector, maybe that's also why they have different laws? Something we already know to be true.

This doesn't prove the multiverse is 4-dimensional, even if we assume your interpretation to be correct, because it's simply contradictory.

If you're deriving the conclusion that the multiverse caps at 4-dimensional, because a separate "4-dimensional space" (even tho the INS is not even just 4-dimensional to begin with but whatever) doesn't have entropy and the example they give, in relation to the multiverse utilizes entropy.

It's internally contradictory, because in your proposal, you postulate that the 4th dimension is time and your interpretation, has it, that time exists as its own separate vector to the 3-dimensional space.

Because the INS is not the separate vector they refer to, even if you assume the INS is 4-dimensional.

All of this is explained in earlier posts. Yawn.

INS is referred to as a “Sea of Time”. In fact, in both Extra CCC and in FGO, movement in INS directly relates to movement in the time axis.

Passionlip’s INS pocket is explicitly called 4-dimensional, and Tiamat’s mud is explicitly called 4-dimensional due to the fact that it is made out of imaginary numbers.

 

[Violatas]

@Cautiousexedius do you at least agree no one physically scales to Avalon? And for the Eyes of Death iirc there'll be a separate thread for its tier eventually so not super interested in that atm. Wouldn't even be a physical AP thing either