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Dude stop saying the same stuff and expecting different results.
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MCU CRT: Thanos is not stronger than Carol
- Thread starter M3X_2.0
- Start date
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Agree! Agree! The irony of people downplaying Carol but want to use her feats to scale everyone above her.
I also want to point out: That Thanos had to use the power stone to knock Captain Marvel away. The power stone was doing damage to Thanos's hand to point he was grunting in pain. So the power stone was pushing energy levels >= Thanos's Durability, and Carol took the hit but was not defeated by it. So she is definitely not below him.
I also want to point out: That Thanos had to use the power stone to knock Captain Marvel away. The power stone was doing damage to Thanos's hand to point he was grunting in pain. So the power stone was pushing energy levels >= Thanos's Durability, and Carol took the hit but was not defeated by it. So she is definitely not below him.
Lacku
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It's literally your word against WoG. Could you explain how Marvel is actually wrong about their own material?
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The point of this thread is to revert her back to the way her profile was before which is were she no-sells thanos blows and completely overpowers him
how about you actually respond to the arguments instead of trying to ignore them
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There not, it just doesn’t prove anything
Lacku
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It's literally a statement from Marvel saying that she went toe-to-toe with Thanos and that she was about to overpower him before she got hit with the Power Stone. What more do you want them to say?
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Literally the only points that have been used for Thanos are him grabbing Carol by the arm and throwing her, a random headcanon that Carol absorbed the stones' powers, and Thanos being "weakened" when Carol attacked her. A few issues with that:
A) This was Thanos well after the Gauntlet had an effect on his physical body. If this was immediately after he used the snap, I could see the argument. But Thanos certainly recovered at this point, so calling him weakened is just being dishonest
B) Thanos grabbing Carol by the arm and tossing her away. That isn't very impressive, he just tossed her. He didn't overpower her at all
C) Carol no sells a headbutt from Thanos in a moment that's very much framed as showing us "oh shit, he can't hurt her". Previously, we've seen Thanos' headbutt was able to knock back Iron Man pretty damn hard so we know this isn't just some weak ass attack either
D) Thanos literally has to use the Power Stone to harm her
E) Show me one piece of evidence, even the slightest ounce of proof that Carol absorbed the Infinity Stones' power. There's literally none
Calling Thanos stronger than Carol is just ignoring whats put in front of us
A) This was Thanos well after the Gauntlet had an effect on his physical body. If this was immediately after he used the snap, I could see the argument. But Thanos certainly recovered at this point, so calling him weakened is just being dishonest
B) Thanos grabbing Carol by the arm and tossing her away. That isn't very impressive, he just tossed her. He didn't overpower her at all
C) Carol no sells a headbutt from Thanos in a moment that's very much framed as showing us "oh shit, he can't hurt her". Previously, we've seen Thanos' headbutt was able to knock back Iron Man pretty damn hard so we know this isn't just some weak ass attack either
D) Thanos literally has to use the Power Stone to harm her
E) Show me one piece of evidence, even the slightest ounce of proof that Carol absorbed the Infinity Stones' power. There's literally none
Calling Thanos stronger than Carol is just ignoring whats put in front of us
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Because it just goes over the general outline of there fight, nothing more nothing less.
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You aren't proving anything, Imma be real
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Calling carol stronger is also blantly ignoring what is put in front of us as I already broke down
https://vsbattles.com/threads/mcu-captain-marvel-downgrade.160650/
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How about you actually respond to my points? It'd make this go faster
Lacku
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This is the strangest denial of WoG I've ever seen.
Lacku
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You're blatantly ignoring actual statements from Marvel proving every single one of your points wrong.
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how about you actually look at the reason she was downgraded in the first place
one statement going over the general outline far from proves everyone of my arguments wrong
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??? You currently have the profiles saying Thanos is stronger than Carol and WoG says the exact opposite. Please explain how that “doesn’t prove anything”.
I’ll also add that simply isn’t an AP feat, it’s an LS feat at best, and not even a very good one.
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If something that's just a show of his superior skill in close combat
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Stop repeating the same rejected arguments.
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I did. And I addressed them all in my points. Enough of the snarky back and forth, either address what I'm saying or don't respond at all
Either way, my agreement with the OP is staying where it is
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Well because there’s already enough inconstants to say otherwise, other character disagree with said notion. And as I said before this only goes over the general outline of there battle. Thanos takes blows from her like everyone else then she randomly overpowers him and punches her with the power stone. I’ve already gone over how it’s not that simple
Lacku
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We have looked at your arguments and we've presented our own counter-arguments and official statements which you keep dismissing.
I don't understand how it being general disproves anything. I'd also like you to provide a single statement or piece of evidence from a guidebook or writer that supports Carol being weaker than Thanos (and also somehow Mark 80 Iron Man, Thor and Mjolnir Captain America. Seriously, how did that happen?) even though she's always presented as one of the strongest people in the room in Endgame.
Serlock_Holmes
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Yeah agree with the thead atp.
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And this isn’t a contradiction, as I’ve said before. It is entirely possible for someone to take hits from someone stronger than them, hell, some characters on the wiki have durability stats infinitely higher than their AP (and that’s not hyperbole).
Excellence616
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Wait, are we arguing about this Thanos or Thanos as a whole?
I do agree with this tho
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there not just the same if you actually looked through it
You didn’t , you literally started of be generalizing my argument to “muh throwing carol away” which I didn’t even bring up
The only one you actually responded to was him being crippled at the farm then you proceeded to never mention any of the pieces of evidence I brought in the thread or make any real counter arguments. You basically just built some straw man .
Lacku
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Maybe it would make things easier if you just summarised your points here and used them to rebuttal our arguments instead of telling us to look at a different thread. You also can't criticise us for supposedly only responding to one of your points even though you've been dancing around many of ours for a good portion of this thread.
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Now you're just putting words in my mouth. I never generalized anything, I even named three individual arguments that were used to say Thanos is stronger. Maybe if you cut back on the snark and responded to my actual points, we'd be having an actual conversation right now. I also never pointed to you individually when listing my reasons for Carol being stronger
If anyone's creating the straw man, its you
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My point isn’t just him taking her attacks my point is he shrugged them off like they were nothing special.
most people in this thread don’t even know the arguments that downgraded so idk what your talking about. You presented one offical statement and said it negs everything
Because it dosen’t go over any serious details. Were just gonna pretend like Thanos was completely fresh? We’re just gonna pretend like Thanos didn’t take multiple of those “strong” blows like they weren’t anything special . The only thing that statement dose is recaps the event nothing more nothing less. I can’t but can you provide me a statement on why carol didn’t ragdoll farm thanos,
The OP of thread summarizes my points perfectly but nobody cares. But sure I’ll just drop the thing here and she were that goes. I can when I’ve literally given people the link to my entire argument multiple times then proceed to make a straw man of my arguments
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You literally came in and just said these are the common arguments for so and so and argue against them to shut me down. But ok whatever
All cut out my snark
He was literally limping up the stairs and his gauntlet arm had noticeably shrunk in size
(1:48)
Not part of my argument
That’s further helps my point, if carol is so above him then she should have raffles him in the first couple of hits like hulk, and she definitely should have clapped him solo on the farm
Dosen’t mean much considering what I’m arguing
Some of you may or may not have noticed but when the nanotech gauntlet has all the stones on and someone is wearing it, it is constantly going off weather the user’s hand is closed or not or even if there not using it. It’s always going off, this is best shown with prof hulk
(2:28)
The only time this surge of energy has been stopped (besides carol who I’ll be talking about in a sec) is when tony yonked the stones from the gauntlet.
(0:19)
Yet when carol comes into contact with the gauntlet with all the stones and thanos wearing it with the surge and all. It instantly stops giving off energy
(2:06)
This would led me to believe that she absorbed the energy from the gauntlet to then gain the power advantage over thanos. This we’ll then led me into my next point.
(2:28)
The only time this surge of energy has been stopped (besides carol who I’ll be talking about in a sec) is when tony yonked the stones from the gauntlet.
(0:19)
Yet when carol comes into contact with the gauntlet with all the stones and thanos wearing it with the surge and all. It instantly stops giving off energy
(2:06)
This would led me to believe that she absorbed the energy from the gauntlet to then gain the power advantage over thanos. This we’ll then led me into my next point.
Lacku
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That's your own interpretation of the scene that's not supported by anything. It's really contrived to say that a character did no damage just because they weren't causing their opponent to scream in pain with every hit.
If people not knowing your arguments is such a problem just tell us them here. If they're really that concrete use them to disprove us. You aren't doing yourself any favours. Also I'm sure if I owned any MCU guidebooks or character encyclopaedia's I could find more statements and evidence to support Carol but I don't own. Even then, just from a storytelling perspective, it's very weird to have a character set up in every scene to be really strong, with nobody denying that she's strong, and then she overpowers one of the strongest villains in the whole franchise, but if you actually hyper-analyse and nitpick her fight scenes you'll find she's actually weaker than even Pre-Awakening characters, despite this being supported by nothing. It just doesn't really make sense.
Once again, Thanos taking those blows like they "weren't anything special" is just your interpretation of the fight. Provide one official source that supports you. Also how does it being a recap disprove anything? Would you expect it to say that Carol is actually weaker than Thanos in the scene and is nothing special to him if it went a bit more in-depth? It's also pretty clear that they wanted to restrain Thanos at the start of Endgame. This was brought up in that downgrade thread but just because they knew to not underestimate Thanos doesn't mean that she was gonna go all out and kill him right there and then.
Okay but can you actually use those points to disprove our own? I said it already but seriously you are doing yourself no favours by presenting your arguments like this.
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Again I talked about that, any gaunlet including the uru one goes off as soon as you put all the stones together which after the inicial power surge it stops, everyone who used the nano gaunlet always always snap really fast so we never see the inicial power surge stop. There is nothing to suggest it stopped because of Captain Marvel considering that the other did stop
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Didn’t say she did no damage I said he shrugged it off like it wasn’t anything special
I did and I’m about to post them all here in after this. It’s weird that they didn’t have her that strong in the beginning. Never said she’s weaker then pre awakened characters she just doesn’t scale to chin sack
I’m telling you what happened on screen that’s about it. It being a recap dosen’t disprove or approve anything it just is, it doesn’t do anything for either side. They wanted to restrain Thanos to stop him from using the stones, why do you think Thor cut his arm off?
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Whelp since no one wants to actually look at the OP in the downgrade thread I might as well bring it here.
Some of you may or may not have noticed but when the nanotech gauntlet has all the stones on and someone is wearing it, it is constantly going off weather the user’s hand is closed or not or even if there not using it. It’s always going off, this is best shown with prof hulk
https://youtu.be/yzrjibEGwlg?si=rdDiTnnTCx2ot6T5
(2:28)
The only time this surge of energy has been stopped (besides carol who I’ll be talking about in a sec) is when tony yonked the stones from the gauntlet.
https://youtu.be/TWB31WFomz4?si=6mwNYeCbsf9R3xrF
(0:19)
Yet when carol comes into contact with the gauntlet with all the stones and thanos wearing it with the surge and all. It instantly stops giving off energy
https://youtu.be/LMLJPDPVlUc?si=kXE-Y9Da4ko4KaNk
(2:06)
This would led me to believe that she absorbed the energy from the gauntlet to then gain the power advantage over thanos. This we’ll then led me into my next point.
https://youtu.be/yzrjibEGwlg?si=rdDiTnnTCx2ot6T5
(2:28)
The only time this surge of energy has been stopped (besides carol who I’ll be talking about in a sec) is when tony yonked the stones from the gauntlet.
https://youtu.be/TWB31WFomz4?si=6mwNYeCbsf9R3xrF
(0:19)
Yet when carol comes into contact with the gauntlet with all the stones and thanos wearing it with the surge and all. It instantly stops giving off energy
https://youtu.be/LMLJPDPVlUc?si=kXE-Y9Da4ko4KaNk
(2:06)
This would led me to believe that she absorbed the energy from the gauntlet to then gain the power advantage over thanos. This we’ll then led me into my next point.
Carol is not constantly show to be above Thanos’s lvl. She is shown to no sell his attacks and completely overpower him after she comes into contact with the surging gauntlet. She is not shown to be able to overwhelm and overpower thanos to this extent on multiple occasions.
Number one
https://youtu.be/NsjSzb1bddw?si=JmYCcXLD5OuR8qDR
(2:10)
Despite getting the drop on a crippled chin sack he was able to somewhat tank her blast and attack and even gradually and quickly overpower her leg until hulkbuster came in for the assist. If she was constantly shown to be stronger then chin sack she should have atleast been able to daze him and or hold his arm completely still. Especially since your legs are generally stronger then your arms. This is especially true when you consider the fact that the avengers had no reason to hold back agianst thanos when they thought he still had access to all the stones.
Number Two
https://youtu.be/LMLJPDPVlUc?si=SwVHpzR2YsyFSNDE
(1:56)
Thanos is shown able to take multiple attacks from carol just fine and not get rag dolled. This is again another contradiction to her supposedly being above the mad titan. This also leads me into another one of my points
Number Three
https://youtu.be/LMLJPDPVlUc
(2:27)
Carol gets her lights knocked out by a single power stone blasts. Now while this might not seem like much her fellow hero tony stark is capable of taking multiple blasts from Thanos
(0:34)
Tony’s IW suit is pretty clearly below base thanos considering his fight in endgame with a more advanced suit.
Number Four .
In the guardians film Ronan tries to challenge thanos with the power stone but korath tires to warn him
(0:30)
Ronan dosen’t disagree with korath’s statement of thanos being the strongest, despite the fact he saw carols powers first hand
(0:46)
Number one
https://youtu.be/NsjSzb1bddw?si=JmYCcXLD5OuR8qDR
(2:10)
Despite getting the drop on a crippled chin sack he was able to somewhat tank her blast and attack and even gradually and quickly overpower her leg until hulkbuster came in for the assist. If she was constantly shown to be stronger then chin sack she should have atleast been able to daze him and or hold his arm completely still. Especially since your legs are generally stronger then your arms. This is especially true when you consider the fact that the avengers had no reason to hold back agianst thanos when they thought he still had access to all the stones.
Number Two
https://youtu.be/LMLJPDPVlUc?si=SwVHpzR2YsyFSNDE
(1:56)
Thanos is shown able to take multiple attacks from carol just fine and not get rag dolled. This is again another contradiction to her supposedly being above the mad titan. This also leads me into another one of my points
Number Three
https://youtu.be/LMLJPDPVlUc
(2:27)
Carol gets her lights knocked out by a single power stone blasts. Now while this might not seem like much her fellow hero tony stark is capable of taking multiple blasts from Thanos
(0:34)
Tony’s IW suit is pretty clearly below base thanos considering his fight in endgame with a more advanced suit.
Number Four .
In the guardians film Ronan tries to challenge thanos with the power stone but korath tires to warn him
(0:30)
Ronan dosen’t disagree with korath’s statement of thanos being the strongest, despite the fact he saw carols powers first hand
(0:46)
Thanos was most likely very tired, battered and overall not at his best before fighting carol. The reason I say this is because of a couple of reasons. For one he had a foursome with the Trinity
Got wombo comboed by Steve
Got his checks clapped by a bloodlusted Wanda
We even see him start to struggle with Thor a bit and being brought down to his knee
While he did one shot him with a headbutt, this should still be telling of his physically state.
Then momentarily tank the energy of the gauntlet
(2:07)
Which we already know from banner, said energy can be damaging
(2:33)
Got wombo comboed by Steve
Got his checks clapped by a bloodlusted Wanda
We even see him start to struggle with Thor a bit and being brought down to his knee
While he did one shot him with a headbutt, this should still be telling of his physically state.
Then momentarily tank the energy of the gauntlet
(2:07)
Which we already know from banner, said energy can be damaging
(2:33)
This brings me to my final point
Besides the instance of carol seemly shown sucking the gauntlets power and getting a massive amp, she’s shown another instance (in another timeline thought)
https://youtu.be/_9CBoPoCLTI
It’s pretty clear cut here that she’s absorbing Thor’s lighting here. With it being somewhat similar to what happened to her fight with thanos. With her getting a boost and starting to manhandle Thor for a bit. And while you may have grips with the power lvls and all that for scaling to there mainline counterparts, abilities wise there pretty much the same.
Besides the instance of carol seemly shown sucking the gauntlets power and getting a massive amp, she’s shown another instance (in another timeline thought)
https://youtu.be/_9CBoPoCLTI
It’s pretty clear cut here that she’s absorbing Thor’s lighting here. With it being somewhat similar to what happened to her fight with thanos. With her getting a boost and starting to manhandle Thor for a bit. And while you may have grips with the power lvls and all that for scaling to there mainline counterparts, abilities wise there pretty much the same.
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Excellence616
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Not sure if this will this help but,
Peak Thanos>=Carol Danvers>>Weakened Thanos
Pre Awakened Characters should get downgraded back to their usual tier (When Marvel Champ made this thread, i thought it would only affect Hulk)
Carol Danvers only having two keys is funny. Are we to assuming that she is as powerful as her Endgame self rather than stronger?
Suppressed | Full Powered
9-B | Low 4-C, higher with Energy Absorption
She should have
Suppressed | Endgame | The Marvels (Her Own feat)
9-B | High 6-B | Low 4-C, higher with Energy Absorption
Carol should scale to her own feats.
Pre and Post Awakened should not scale to Low 4-C since there's nothing to place them at that level.
Carol's The Marvels key should states that she is stronger than Endgame self.
No matter how we treat it, Thanos will find a way to scale to Endgame Carol.
Peak Thanos>=Carol Danvers>>Weakened Thanos
Pre Awakened Characters should get downgraded back to their usual tier (When Marvel Champ made this thread, i thought it would only affect Hulk)
Carol Danvers only having two keys is funny. Are we to assuming that she is as powerful as her Endgame self rather than stronger?
Suppressed | Full Powered
9-B | Low 4-C, higher with Energy Absorption
She should have
Suppressed | Endgame | The Marvels (Her Own feat)
9-B | High 6-B | Low 4-C, higher with Energy Absorption
Carol should scale to her own feats.
Pre and Post Awakened should not scale to Low 4-C since there's nothing to place them at that level.
Carol's The Marvels key should states that she is stronger than Endgame self.
No matter how we treat it, Thanos will find a way to scale to Endgame Carol.
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As I said here:
Thanos was able to endure the amount of energy needed from the power stone to knock Carol away.
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That part is wrong her high 6-A comes from a calc from the marvels so Endgame she would still be 6-B
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I’m pretty sure this is something for the other thread rather then this one tbh
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And the evidence putting “peak” Thanos above Carol is… where?
This is straight up derailing and completely irrelevant to the premise of this thread.
You haven’t provided any evidence to support such a claim, not to mention that Carol would be getting her Endgame scaling from Thanos, so…
Excellence616
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I have already made arguments for that.
But sorry if for the derail.
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Thanos dealt no damage to Carol, he is not stronger than her and the level of power she used against him is not on the level of her feat from the Marvels.
Throwing someone is irrelevant to hurting them as he just overcame her body weight (unless we want to open the dialogue of Hulk should scale to Ultron because he punched Ultron away).
WoG says she was going to overpower him if he didn’t use Power Stone meaning Carol is stronger than Peak Thanos.
Seems simple enough to me.
Throwing someone is irrelevant to hurting them as he just overcame her body weight (unless we want to open the dialogue of Hulk should scale to Ultron because he punched Ultron away).
WoG says she was going to overpower him if he didn’t use Power Stone meaning Carol is stronger than Peak Thanos.
Seems simple enough to me.
Excellence616
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But i can add to my argument. With her attack on Thanos in this scene (2:05). If a Obviously Weak Thanos could at least take this, why wouldn't a Stronger Thanos do better. And there is no reason for Captain Marvel to totally hold back at Thanos.
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