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[MCU] Upgraded the Hulk tiers (with tags)
- Thread starter Raincutter
- Start date
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There's also the option to scale Thanos to Likely 5-B via easily crushing the Tesseract which was undamaged by a blow from Eternal Flame Surtur, who was that tier before the 5-A upgrades
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There's also Odin considering an Awakened Thor to be stronger than him, which an article on the Marvel website from 2020 seems to side with:
Plus there's Ronan apparently viewing Captain Marvel as being a more impressive weapon than the Tesseract
Plus there's Ronan apparently viewing Captain Marvel as being a more impressive weapon than the Tesseract
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Related thread to address the ratings: https://vsbattles.com/threads/mcu-5-a-characters-revision.175843/
Lacku
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The CRT that upgraded the Post-Awakening tiers to 5-A only properly closed a couple days ago. If you had any problem with it you should've said back then.
This. There's no way to avoid circular scaling with Gladiator Hulk unfortunately.
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Well that’s the main thing that needs to be addressed no? How is Gladiator Hulk simultaneously as strong/relative to Thanos yet also not instantly killing Pre-Awakening Thor or Surtur? Cause he’s definitely not holding back when he punches Thor by the time in the fight Thor Awakens or when he goes to beat up Surtur.
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- Thread starter
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If Hulk wasn't relative to Thanos or Awakened Thor, he would've died in their respective fights. So either way creates extreme contradictions, and it's unfair to focus only on one. The most reasonable solution is to give pre-Awakened Thor a Ragnarok key that's 5-A. That way Hulk isn't billions of times weaker than Thanos, and that everyone doesn't become 5-A.
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But why would Thor just randomly be 5-A now? He got billions of times stronger between AoU and Ragnarok with no reason why?
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- Thread starter
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Option 1:
Hulk can take attacks from 5-A Thanos and awakened Thor
-> Hulk must be 5-A
base Ragnarok Thor can take hits from that Hulk
-> base Ragnarok Thor is 5-A
Pre-Ragnarok Thor is 6-B
-> Thor grew stronger in the time frame between films
Option 2:
6-B pre-awakened Thor can harm and tank attacks from Ragnarok Hulk
-> Ragnarok Hulk is 6-B
Ragnarok Hulk can take attacks from 5-A Thanos and post-awakening Thor
-> Thanos and Thor are not 5-A
One option requires a suspension of disbelief that Thor grew absurdly in power, the other outright breaks post-Awakening scaling. Ofc you can try and ameliorate it and say "Well, Hulk lost quickly against Thanos, and Hulk was badly hurt by Thor" but that can't reconcile a supposed billion times strength gap.
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So either option is functionally broken.
Thor has no reasoning whatsoever to have grown quite literally billions of times stronger between two films out of nowhere.
If Post-Awakening scaling is set as it is, then it cannot reconcile a world where Hulk doesn’t scale to Thanos or Post-Awakening Thor or the Hulkbuster.
So there’s simply a massive gap in scaling that Ragnarok brings that idk can be simply ignored or hand waves with “Thor got stronger” or “Hulk doesn’t scale.”
Lacku
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Tbf I'm not to sure if what I'm thinking is what you mean but that could be the way to go. At the start of Infinity War it does look like Thor physically can't compare to Thanos, though we didn't see the battle. And when he gets Stormbreaker he does seem to have gotten massively stronger.
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There are also statements from the director and screenwriter about Endgame Thor being stronger than ever due to dealing with his emotional state
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tbf prior to the 5-A upgrades. We accepted that Thor grew billions of times stronger from Endgame to LAT by doing sit ups, lifting rockets. and wrestling spaceships. Hypothetically, he could have trained off-screen in search of the stones
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Yeah and that’s totally fine cause they say he trained and was stronger than ever before. AoU to Ragnarok doesn’t have that statement to cover him here.
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I'll copy some stuff from the Infinity War novel adaptation, Destiny Arrives, that I previously posted in the general thread. It portrays Hulk as being physically weaker than Thanos, though it might be able to support him downscaling:
Loki does legitimately seem to consider Hulk to be the ace up his sleeve to fighting off Thanos after Thor is defeated, with Hulk's attack on Thanos shaking the Statesman:
Hulk stunned and waylaid Thanos with his initial assault, though Thanos gains the upper hand once he recovers, overwhelming Hulk with "incomparable" strength:
As a note, a weakened Thor's attempt to attack Thanos is described as weak and embarrassing in effect, and Thanos retaliates by moving faster than Thor believed possible. Heimdall views Thanos as being unlike any enemy the Asgardians had battled:
It seems implied that Hulk could've taken on Cull Obsidian with brute strength if Banner had been able to transform:
For reference, Banner views Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw as being deadlier than any foes the Avengers had ever faced before:
Multiple statements make it clear that Iron Man is at a disadvantage against Cull, who outguns him in every possible way.
During the battle of Wakanda, Black Panther's kinetic energy pulse apparently failed to do more than stall Cull for a moment:
Hulk stunned and waylaid Thanos with his initial assault, though Thanos gains the upper hand once he recovers, overwhelming Hulk with "incomparable" strength:
As a note, a weakened Thor's attempt to attack Thanos is described as weak and embarrassing in effect, and Thanos retaliates by moving faster than Thor believed possible. Heimdall views Thanos as being unlike any enemy the Asgardians had battled:
It seems implied that Hulk could've taken on Cull Obsidian with brute strength if Banner had been able to transform:
For reference, Banner views Cull Obsidian and Ebony Maw as being deadlier than any foes the Avengers had ever faced before:
Multiple statements make it clear that Iron Man is at a disadvantage against Cull, who outguns him in every possible way.
During the battle of Wakanda, Black Panther's kinetic energy pulse apparently failed to do more than stall Cull for a moment:
Excellence616
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Bump
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why was hulk down scaling rejected in the first place ? It’s outright stated hulk scales above cull in the film by banner and deleted scenes back that up and we literally see him fight awakend Thor take 2 head shots and back up ready for more
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- Thread starter
- #63
breaks the gap between pre and post awakening tiers since Hulk was relative to both pre-awakening gladiator Thor and post awakening Thor and Thanos
Ghengiroo115
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Am I right in saying that it’s just the Thor fight that contradicts Hulk scaling to Phase 3 high tiers? Everything outside of that fight seems to consistently put him relative to high tiers, and even the Thor fight itself supports that with him taking punches from Post-Awakening Thor.
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Yeah, pretty much. And the latter half of that fight also supports it.
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Why can’t ragnarock hulk have his own scaling he was literally doing training with valk for hundred thousand years and this site believed Thor doing some training with small boulders and metal chains in L&T can make him grow several tiers higher why not just say hulk is stronger after his hundred thousand years of training?
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The problem isn't Ragnarok Hulk, we actually accept that he grew from 7-A/6-C to 6-B, but that Pre-Awakening Thor scales from Ragnarok Hulk, and from him all the other 6-B characters
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Wasn't there a moment in the fight where Hulk starts taking it seriously and effortlessly catches Thor's hammer and starts beating the crap out of him? If the only problem is Pre-Awakening Thor's scaling, why not just... not scale him from Ragnarok Hulk and use the mountain of evidence for Hulk's scaling to high-tiers?
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Do you believe that Hulk got millions of times stronger mid fight and somehow didn’t kill Thor with a single hit or that Thor got millions of times stronger with no explanation from AoU to Ragnarok
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He doesn’t tho pre awakening Thor wasn’t even able to scratch him him and hulk literally beat him so bad he forced Thor to awaken on the verge of blacking out then he goes on to take hits from awakened Thor meaning pre awakened never scaled
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Yes
With a single arm to showing there is a considerable difference between these fighters hulk literally beat Thor so bad he was on the verge of blacking out which caused him to awaken in the first place
Literally the simplest fix pre awakened Thor doesn’t scale to gladiator hulk that Thor failed to damage hulk at all showing he doesn’t scale and even after awakening hulk took 2 blows from awakened thor and was back up ready for more
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Thor hit Hulk so hard with his hammer that Hulk went flying and was stunned, clearly hurt. Numerous times Hulk is forced to kneel, is pushed back or is flat out damaged from Thor's hits, even his PUNCHES were making Hulk fall to his knees. You are absolutely mad to say Thor did no damage to Hulk in that fight, it was perfectly even until Hulk got angry.
Also, if I'm 6-B and my face gets punched dead on by a 5-C, I will not HAVE a face. If the difference is that high, Thor wouldn't get visions or be on the verge of death. He would instantaneously die from that ap difference.
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Watch the actual fight. Thor is beating Hulk up until Hulk gets angry and stronger. At which point, if you're going to attempt to claim hulk got millions of times stronger, I ask you why Thor did not instantaneously die from the ap difference.
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that doesn’t mean anything SpiderMan staggered thanos guys SpiderMan caused damage to Thanos let’s upgrade drax captain America to your he did damage head canon hulk had 0 damage on him he wasn’t bleeding he didn’t suggest he was hurt no limping he showed nothing moving or staggering someone is not a feat your absolutely mad to even suggest that and it wasn’t perfectly even hulk just had a hard time hitting Thor due to the massive mobility issues between him and Thor
Difference was hulk didn’t want to kill Thor lol there’s a reason hulk knocks Thor out rather then killing him at the end
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Watch the fight my guy we did Thor isn’t beating up hulk he’s staggering hulk but not doing damage the fact hulk literally took 2 shots to the head from awakened Thor got back up in a few seconds ready for more literally debunks your entire argument of Thor was beating hulk up
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Thor had no damage whatsoever until Hulk rage amped and started beating him into the dirt as well. Are you now going to claim that Thor is millions of times stronger than hulk? Thanos is a walking tank on Titan and calls Spider Man an insect. This is not the same as moving someone, this is like if two boxers are fighting and punching each other, but because there are no visible injuries on either of them, I therefore say one of them is way stronger than the other and is taking zero damage. Hulk hit Thor, Thor hit Hulk, they both are getting damaged. Unless they're both stone walls for some reason and neither of their punches deal damage to the other, your point here is completely insane.
So you believe Hulk is holding back millions of times his strength intentionally? And for some reason he doesn't just one shot Thor from the get go when he starts being annoying? And then at the end of the fight when he jumps on Thor to punch him he also held back? And that the entire time he's fighting Thor, he actually could just completely ignore his punches and not move at all but is choosing to... somehow reduce his own durability so Thor doesn't break his hands punching him?
Your logic is the headcanon, not mine. Thor and Hulk are evenly matched until Hulk rage amps. That is literally what the fight portrays. Thanos being even remotely effected by other characters is outlier, same reason Spider Man isn't scaled to Obsidian Cull despite blocking a hit from him. Same Spiderman getting pressed by 8-C villains by the way. These examples are clearly not even close to being the same.
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And Hulk is hitting Thor, several times, even elbowing his ribs. And Thor just keeps fighting like he's not taking damage either by your logic.
So they're both not taking damage cause no physical marks? Is that your logic? Are they both stonewalls? Thor got more hits in than Hulk did, he was in fact beating him up, even if that doesn't mean he was winning.
He got back up from Awakened Thor punches after he rage amped. Your argument is completely faulty like you're not even reading every other word I post or refusing to watch the fight. Hulk and Thor are evenly matched until Hulk gets stronger and then beats him up, then Awakened Thor punches Rage Hulk and hurts him back.
The math is very simple.
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Show me the damage Thor took from Hulk slamming him on the ground
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My claim is pre awakened Thor doesn’t scale to ragnarock hulk your confusing staggering/moving someone as actually damaging someone there is no scaling this is the same as moving someone it happens all the time in the mcu Thor has had his head moved by strikes from hydra humans etc the list goes on mcu just has low tiers stagger high tiers all the time but never actually cause damage captain America moved endgame with a kick do cap scale to Thanos obviously not
they aren’t both getting damaged that’s head canon hulk had 0 damage on his body no blood no bruises no damage your using head canon to say he was damaged when nothing suggested it outright debunks you when hulk was shown he can take 2 head shots from awakened Thor and get back up ready for more showing he wasn’t even with pre awakened Thor your points are completely insane get over it
if thanos can hold back enough to not kill super soldier cap when punching him why can’t hulk ? Hulk didn’t want to actually kill Thor this is outright shown when he knocks him out rather then killing him we know hulk has no problem killing other people as he literally sleeps in the skull of one of his victims so if he wanted to kill Thor he would’ve done it instead he settled for a simple ko
and he’s not reducing his own durability stop with your head canon nonsense Thor never damaged hulk until awakening get over that’s the reality
Hmmm nope yours is head canon hulk shows no signs of injuries visually no bruises no blood no nothing he doesn’t act like he’s injured no limping the fight doesn’t portray that at all stop with the nonsense Thanos being moved by characters aren’t outliers they just treated as Thanos holding back SpiderMan and cull scaling is treated as an outlier not the same as cap punching thanos in the face and his head moves or cap staggering thanos or drax doing it etc
Thor was literally on the verge of black out he actually was showing damage and you can here his expression to match it what part does that not show he’s taking damage lol meanwhile your argument is hulk and pre awakened Thor we’re even Thor awakens hulk goes on to takes strikes from that Thor b-b-b-but how can this be he was even with base Thor you see how goofy your logic is
Thor got more hits in because mobility issue hulk had a hard time hitting Thor Thor was literally knocked out get out of here with the no damage like thanos physical strikes made hulk bleed something Thor didn’t do
So you’re suggesting his rage amp gave him millions of times stronger in strength? Pure nonsense don’t cook again they weren’t evenly matched staggering someone is not a feat never will be
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