Mcu Captain marvel downgrade

[The_one_you_least_expect]

This is a bit long so I’m gonna separate these into 4 points

Spoiler: Point 1

Some of you may or may not have noticed but when the nanotech gauntlet has all the stones on and someone is wearing it, it is constantly going off weather the user’s hand is closed or not or even if there not using it. It’s always going off, this is best shown with prof hulk

(2:28)


The only time this surge of energy has been stopped (besides carol who I’ll be talking about in a sec) is when tony yonked the stones from the gauntlet.


(0:19)

Yet when carol comes into contact with the gauntlet with all the stones and thanos wearing it with the surge and all. It instantly stops giving off energy


(2:06)

This would led me to believe that she absorbed the energy from the gauntlet to then gain the power advantage over thanos. This we’ll then led me into my next point.

Spoiler: Point 2

Carol is not constantly show to be above Thanos’s lvl. She is shown to no sell his attacks and completely overpower him after she comes into contact with the surging gauntlet. She is not shown to be able to overwhelm and overpower thanos to this extent on multiple occasions.

Number one


(2:10)

Despite getting the drop on a crippled chin sack he was able to somewhat tank her blast and attack and even gradually and quickly overpower her leg until hulkbuster came in for the assist. If she was constantly shown to be stronger then chin sack she should have atleast been able to daze him and or hold his arm completely still. Especially since your legs are generally stronger then your arms. This is especially true when you consider the fact that the avengers had no reason to hold back agianst thanos when they thought he still had access to all the stones.

Number Two


(1:56)

Thanos is shown able to take multiple attacks from carol just fine and not get rag dolled. This is again another contradiction to her supposedly being above the mad titan. This also leads me into another one of my points

Number Three

https://youtu.be/LMLJPDPVlUc
(2:27)

Carol gets her lights knocked out by a single power stone blasts. Now while this might not seem like much her fellow hero tony stark is capable of taking multiple blasts from Thanos


https://youtu.be/sFFwvr6l2mM
(0:34)

Tony’s IW suit is pretty clearly below base thanos considering his fight in endgame with a more advanced suit.

Number Four .



In the guardians film Ronan tries to challenge thanos with the power stone but korath tires to warn him

https://youtu.be/9jFMhrxTXDc
(0:30)


Ronan dosen’t disagree with korath’s statement of thanos being the strongest, despite the fact he saw carols powers first hand

https://youtu.be/ATxnB3hdh5A
(0:46)

Spoiler: Point 3

Thanos was most likely very tired, battered and overall not at his best before fighting carol. The reason I say this is because of a couple of reasons. For one he had a foursome with the Trinity

Got wombo comboed by Steve

Got his checks clapped by a bloodlusted Wanda

We even see him start to struggle with Thor a bit and being brought down to his knee

While he did one shot him with a headbutt, this should still be telling of his physically state.

Then momentarily tank the energy of the gauntlet

https://youtu.be/LMLJPDPVlUc

(2:07)

Which we already know from banner, said energy can be damaging

https://youtu.be/yzrjibEGwlg
(2:33)

Spoiler: Point 4

This brings me to my final point

Besides the instance of carol seemly shown sucking the gauntlets power and getting a massive amp, she’s shown another instance (in another timeline thought)



https://youtu.be/_9CBoPoCLTI



It’s pretty clear cut here that she’s absorbing Thor’s lighting here. With it being somewhat similar to what happened to her fight with thanos. With her getting a boost and starting to manhandle Thor for a bit. And while you may have grips with the power lvls and all that for scaling to there mainline counterparts, abilities wise there pretty much the same.

Edit:
In terms of scaling carol should be able to scale to her variant in the party Thor episode seeing as she’s shown to have the same relationship with fury like her mainline counterpart. Which would imply she went through all the events in the captain marvel film plus she has the exact same powers with the only difference being encountering Thor much earlier

So in the end carol should probably be

“6-B,higher with energy absorption”

either way she shouldn’t be above thanos at her base

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I agree with the overall premise of the CRT

Though I'm not sure what her AP would normally scales to (without energy absorption) if the downgrade is accepted, since it involves Captain Marvel being weaker than Thanos when he's on the brink of death after atomising the Infinity Stones. Lifting Strength is settled, though

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I agree with the overall premise of the CRT

Though I'm not sure what her AP would normally scales to (without energy absorption) if the downgrade is accepted, since it involves Captain Marvel being weaker than Thanos when he's on the brink of death after atomising the Infinity Stones. Lifting Strength is settled, though

We could make an exception and scale her to her variant that fought Thor making his 6-b or we could say she did similar to hulkbuster 2.0 when helping to restrain a weakened thanos possibly making his high 6-b

 

[Excellence616]

I agree

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

We could make an exception and scale her to her variant that fought Thor making his 6-b

Variant scaling requires strong evidence that they are identical, according to Qawsed, which is only really the case with people like Doctor Strange or Variant L1130 Loki (until Loki Season 2's finale, probably)

Also, in the first fight, Carol implied she was holding back and Thor was clearly goofing around, while the second fight (when they were getting serious) was interrupted by Frigga before they could even start

we could say she did similar to hulkbuster 2.0 when helping to restrain a weakened thanos

I mean, that's a decent possibility. But Hulkbuster 2.0 also downscales from base Thanos via Cull Obsidian/Mk50 Iron Man and restrained weakened Thanos with no issue, unlike Captain Marvel

The most solid scaling I can think of is Carol being superior to Ronan, forcing him and the Kree to retreat

 

[Yokoahh5743]

This is a bit long so I’m gonna separate these into 4 points

Spoiler: Point 1

Some of you may or may not have noticed but when the nanotech gauntlet has all the stones on and someone is wearing it, it is constantly going off weather the user’s hand is closed or not or even if there not using it. It’s always going off, this is best shown with prof hulk

(2:28)


The only time this surge of energy has been stopped (besides carol who I’ll be talking about in a sec) is when tony yonked the stones from the gauntlet.


(0:19)

Yet when carol comes into contact with the gauntlet with all the stones and thanos wearing it with the surge and all. It instantly stops giving off energy


(2:06)

This would led me to believe that she absorbed the energy from the gauntlet to then gain the power advantage over thanos. This we’ll then led me into my next point.

Spoiler: Point 2

Carol is not constantly show to be above Thanos’s lvl. She is shown to no sell his attacks and completely overpower him after she comes into contact with the surging gauntlet. She is not shown to be able to overwhelm and overpower thanos to this extent on multiple occasions.

Number one


(2:10)

Despite getting the drop on a crippled chin sack he was able to somewhat tank her blast and attack and even gradually and quickly overpower her leg until hulkbuster came in for the assist. If she was constantly shown to be stronger then chin sack she should have atleast been able to daze him and or hold his arm completely still. Especially since your legs are generally stronger then your arms. This is especially true when you consider the fact that the avengers had no reason to hold back agianst thanos when they thought he still had access to all the stones.

Number Two


(1:56)

Thanos is shown able to take multiple attacks from carol just fine and not get rag dolled. This is again another contradiction to her supposedly being above the mad titan. This also leads me into another one of my points

Number Three

https://youtu.be/LMLJPDPVlUc
(2:27)

Carol gets her lights knocked out by a single power stone blasts. Now while this might not seem like much her fellow hero tony stark is capable of taking multiple blasts from Thanos


https://youtu.be/sFFwvr6l2mM
(0:34)

Tony’s IW suit is pretty clearly below base thanos considering his fight in endgame with a more advanced suit.

Number Four .



In the guardians film Ronan tries to challenge thanos with the power stone but korath tires to warn him

https://youtu.be/9jFMhrxTXDc
(0:30)


Ronan dosen’t disagree with korath’s statement of thanos being the strongest, despite the fact he saw carols powers first hand

https://youtu.be/ATxnB3hdh5A
(0:46)

Spoiler: Point 3

Thanos was most likely very tired, battered and overall not at his best before fighting carol. The reason I say this is because of a couple of reasons. For one he had a foursome with the Trinity

Got wombo comboed by Steve

Got his checks clapped by a bloodlusted Wanda

We even see him start to struggle with Thor a bit and being brought down to his knee

While he did one shot him with a headbutt, this should still be telling of his physically state.

Then momentarily tank the energy of the gauntlet

https://youtu.be/LMLJPDPVlUc

(2:07)

Which we already know from banner, said energy can be damaging

https://youtu.be/yzrjibEGwlg
(2:33)

Spoiler: Point 4

This brings me to my final point

Besides the instance of carol seemly shown sucking the gauntlets power and getting a massive amp, she’s shown another instance (in another timeline thought)



https://youtu.be/_9CBoPoCLTI



It’s pretty clear cut here that she’s absorbing Thor’s lighting here. With it being somewhat similar to what happened to her fight with thanos. With her getting a boost and starting to manhandle Thor for a bit. And while you may have grips with the power lvls and all that for scaling to there mainline counterparts, abilities wise there pretty much the same.

So in the end carol should probably be

“6-B,higher with energy absorption” or

“High 6-B, higher with energy absorption” either way she shouldn’t be above thanos at her base

I'm agree but then she fought him for a while while he put on his gloves and was about to snap his fingers. Doesn't that mean he had buffed the power of the stone?

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

but then she fought him for a while while he put on his gloves and was about to snap his fingers

The OP suggests that she absorbed energy from the Infinity Stones during that moment

Doesn't that mean he had buffed the power of the stone?

No

 

[Yokoahh5743]

The OP suggests that she absorbed energy from the Infinity Stones during that moment

No

so she 6-B and possibly H6-B with absorbed energy

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Variant scaling requires strong evidence that they are identical, according to Qawsed, which is only really the case with people like Doctor Strange or Variant L1130 Loki (until Loki Season 2's finale, probably)

Also, in the first fight, Carol implied she was holding back and Thor was clearly goofing around, while the second fight (when they were getting serious) was interrupted by Frigga before they could even start

I mean, that's a decent possibility. But Hulkbuster 2.0 also downscales from base Thanos via Cull Obsidian/Mk50 Iron Man and restrained weakened Thanos with no issue, unlike Captain Marvel

The most solid scaling I can think of is Carol being superior to Ronan, forcing him and the Kree to retreat

True but her variant isn’t really shown to be out of the ordinary and pretty much the exact same as her mainline counterpart

you can still say there comparable at the very least

True

 

[darkphantom9805]

Thanos was obviously very tired during their exchange I mean look

He literally gets overpowered by tony of all people and takes 3 strikes shake him off

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

so she 6-B and possibly H6-B with absorbed energy

Depends on how we scale her

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Thanos was obviously very tired during their exchange I mean look

He literally gets overpowered by tony of all people and takes 3 strikes shake him off

I talk about this in point 3

 

[darkphantom9805]

I talk about this in point 3

Yeah I mean it’s obvious it wasn’t a fair fight between Thanos running the gauntlet of high tiers 2 of which were close to beating him cap and Wanda then putting the gauntlet on took its toll on him

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

True but her variant isn’t really shown to be out of the ordinary and pretty much the exact same as her mainline counterpart

That, I don't disagree. But this argument has been rejected multiple times, and I don't think anything about that standard has changed since the previous times it was brought up

 

[darkphantom9805]

That, I don't disagree. But this argument has been rejected multiple times, and I don't think anything about that standard has changed since the previous times it was brought up

Why was it denied we literally have a direct wog statement on it

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

That, I don't disagree. But this argument has been rejected multiple times, and I don't think anything about that standard has changed since the previous times it was brought up

Eh, we’ll it is what is until that’s fixed

 

[Lacku]

I'm sorry but before an FRA train starts here I'm cooking up a debunk for most of this.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I'm sorry but before an FRA train starts here I'm cooking up a debunk for most of this.

Alright just tag me when you make the thread

 

[Lacku]

Alright just tag me when you make the thread

Sorry I mean like right now. This hasn't been accepted yet.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Sorry I mean like right now. This hasn't been accepted yet.

Ah ok

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Actually couldn’t we scale her off of the kree missles since she scared off the armada ?

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Actually couldn’t we scale her off of the kree missles since she scared off the armada ?

The Low 6-B calc? ByAsura said it was outdated or bad or sth, then it got deleted

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

The Low 6-B calc? ByAsura said it was outdated or bad or sth, then it got deleted

But the kree missles are still low 6-b on there page

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

But the kree missles are still low 6-b on there page

Then it needs to be changed, since both Ronan's and the Sanctuary II's page don't reflect this

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Then it needs to be changed, since both Ronan's and the Sanctuary II's page don't reflect this

Well damm

 

[Lacku]

Reading through all of these points, while I agree Carol in her base isn't as strong as she's made out to be currently on her profile, there are actually many assumptions made here that aren't very accurate.

Spoiler: Point 1

First of all her supposedly "absorbing" energy from the Nanotech Gauntlet since she didn't suffer from any kind of power surge in her body like Iron Man, Thanos and Hulk had to deal with is a complete misunderstanding of the scene. She's only holding the gauntlet, just like how Spider-Man, T'Challa and Hawkeye were holding it moments prior. Are they superior to Thanos because they could do that or absorb energy from it? Nope. They were just holding it. Holding the gauntlet and wearing the gauntlet are two completely different things so the first point is completely moot.

Spoiler: Point 2

Point 2 also has many contradictions. The point is made that despite currently being considered stronger than Thanos and therefore Mark 80 Iron Man, Carol could only handle one punch from the Power Stone, meanwhile, in this post's own words, Mark 50 Iron Man is "capable of taking multiple blasts" from the stone. This isn't exactly true either. Iron Man on Titan blocks the first blast from the Power Stone with his shield, which is already considered higher than his normal durability on his profile, and the second, which is a punch from the stone similar to the one Carol gets hurled back by, leaves him basically defeated. After this Tony quickly loses the fight and gets stabbed by Thanos. So by this logic, Mark 50 Iron Man isn't stronger than Carol but more comparable. We also need to realise how the Power Stone works, it changes the amount of power it uses depending on its target. This means that on a weaker opponent, it will only use the amount of force necessary against it. This means that the blow that Carol took could've been far deadlier than the one Tony took on Titan, so that makes that argument against Carol moot too. I will say the point about Thanos not getting ragdolled by Carol at this point in the fight is very important and I'll touch on that later.

Spoiler: Point 3

In Point 3 Thanos being tired at this point during the final battle is emphasised. I agree that he probably wasn't operating at 100% when he fought Carol after all the abuse he already faced, but we also need to consider the feats he performs while tired. His struggling against Thor is cited as evidence that he's not at his best, which I agree with, but it isn't mentioned that seconds before he one-shotted Iron Man with an elbow, one-shotted Worthy Cap with a single punch along with one-shotting Thor with a headbutt too, which in fairness that last one was pointed out. Still, when watching the clip all the way through it's clear that she's doing a much better job than the trio of Cap, Thor and Iron Man and hurting him far more than they were. This brings me to my own view on how we should handle Carol's AP as Point 4 has already been addressed by others in this thread.

Spoiler: My view on everything

So Carol tanking a headbutt from Thanos is definitely inconsistent with what was shown earlier but there's a pretty simple explanation. Despite my disagreement with her absorbing energy from the gauntlet when she was just holding it before fighting Thanos, it's very likely that she was absorbing power from it when Thanos was wearing it. Notice the heavy aura around her hands and the gauntlet while she's restraining him. It makes more sense that the reason why she was no-selling that headbutt and overpowering Thanos was because she was absorbing power at that point, meanwhile, she was more comparable to him earlier when she was just at normal strength. What I think we should do using this logic is change Carol's AP justification to instead of scaling to full-power Thanos, upscaling Thor, Iron Man and Worthy Cap and just being comparable to a tired Thanos. I do agree that we should add "higher with energy absorption" to her profile though and use her absorbing power from the gauntlet while Thanos was wearing it to completely overpower him when before they were equal as a justification.

 

[darkphantom9805]

Reading through all of these points, while I agree Carol in her base isn't as strong as she's made out to be currently on her profile, there are actually many assumptions made here that aren't very accurate.

Spoiler: Point 1

First of all her supposedly "absorbing" energy from the Nanotech Gauntlet since she didn't suffer from any kind of power surge in her body like Iron Man, Thanos and Hulk had to deal with is a complete misunderstanding of the scene. She's only holding the gauntlet, just like how Spider-Man, T'Challa and Hawkeye were holding it moments prior. Are they superior to Thanos because they could do that or absorb energy from it? Nope. They were just holding it. Holding the gauntlet and wearing the gauntlet are two completely different things so the first point is completely moot.

Spoiler: Point 2

Point 2 also has many contradictions. The point is made that despite currently being considered stronger than Thanos and therefore Mark 80 Iron Man, Carol could only handle one punch from the Power Stone, meanwhile, in this post's own words, Mark 50 Iron Man is "capable of taking multiple blasts" from the stone. This isn't exactly true either. Iron Man on Titan blocks the first blast from the Power Stone with his shield, which is already considered higher than his normal durability on his profile, and the second, which is a punch from the stone similar to the one Carol gets hurled back by, leaves him basically defeated. After this Tony quickly loses the fight and gets stabbed by Thanos. So by this logic, Mark 50 Iron Man isn't stronger than Carol but more comparable. We also need to realise how the Power Stone works, it changes the amount of power it uses depending on its target. This means that on a weaker opponent, it will only use the amount of force necessary against it. This means that the blow that Carol took could've been far deadlier than the one Tony took on Titan, so that makes that argument against Carol moot too. I will say the point about Thanos not getting ragdolled by Carol at this point in the fight is very important and I'll touch on that later.

Spoiler: Point 3

In Point 3 Thanos being tired at this point during the final battle is emphasised. I agree that he probably wasn't operating at 100% when he fought Carol after all the abuse he already faced, but we also need to consider the feats he performs while tired. His struggling against Thor is cited as evidence that he's not at his best, which I agree with, but it isn't mentioned that seconds before he one-shotted Iron Man with an elbow, one-shotted Worthy Cap with a single punch along with one-shotting Thor with a headbutt too, which in fairness that last one was pointed out. Still, when watching the clip all the way through it's clear that she's doing a much better job than the trio of Cap, Thor and Iron Man and hurting him far more than they were. This brings me to my own view on how we should handle Carol's AP as Point 4 has already been addressed by others in this thread.

Spoiler: My view on everything

So Carol tanking a headbutt from Thanos is definitely inconsistent with what was shown earlier but there's a pretty simple explanation. Despite my disagreement with her absorbing energy from the gauntlet when she was just holding it before fighting Thanos, it's very likely that she was absorbing power from it when Thanos was wearing it. Notice the heavy aura around her hands and the gauntlet while she's restraining him. It makes more sense that the reason why she was no-selling that headbutt and overpowering Thanos was because she was absorbing power at that point, meanwhile, she was more comparable to him earlier when she was just at normal strength. What I think we should do using this logic is change Carol's AP justification to instead of scaling to full-power Thanos, upscaling Thor, Iron Man and Worthy Cap and just being comparable to a tired Thanos. I do agree that we should add "higher with energy absorption" to her profile though and use her absorbing power from the gauntlet while Thanos was wearing it to completely overpower him when before they were equal as a justification.

thanos was incredibly tired my guy he was so tired that Tony with a injured suit physically overpowered and took 3 strikes to shake him off when previously a single hit sent Tony flying

 

[Lacku]

Reading through all of these points, while I agree Carol in her base isn't as strong as she's made out to be currently on her profile, there are actually many assumptions made here that aren't very accurate.

Spoiler: Point 1

First of all her supposedly "absorbing" energy from the Nanotech Gauntlet since she didn't suffer from any kind of power surge in her body like Iron Man, Thanos and Hulk had to deal with is a complete misunderstanding of the scene. She's only holding the gauntlet, just like how Spider-Man, T'Challa and Hawkeye were holding it moments prior. Are they superior to Thanos because they could do that or absorb energy from it? Nope. They were just holding it. Holding the gauntlet and wearing the gauntlet are two completely different things so the first point is completely moot.

Spoiler: Point 2

Point 2 also has many contradictions. The point is made that despite currently being considered stronger than Thanos and therefore Mark 80 Iron Man, Carol could only handle one punch from the Power Stone, meanwhile, in this post's own words, Mark 50 Iron Man is "capable of taking multiple blasts" from the stone. This isn't exactly true either. Iron Man on Titan blocks the first blast from the Power Stone with his shield, which is already considered higher than his normal durability on his profile, and the second, which is a punch from the stone similar to the one Carol gets hurled back by, leaves him basically defeated. After this Tony quickly loses the fight and gets stabbed by Thanos. So by this logic, Mark 50 Iron Man isn't stronger than Carol but more comparable. We also need to realise how the Power Stone works, it changes the amount of power it uses depending on its target. This means that on a weaker opponent, it will only use the amount of force necessary against it. This means that the blow that Carol took could've been far deadlier than the one Tony took on Titan, so that makes that argument against Carol moot too. I will say the point about Thanos not getting ragdolled by Carol at this point in the fight is very important and I'll touch on that later.

Spoiler: Point 3

In Point 3 Thanos being tired at this point during the final battle is emphasised. I agree that he probably wasn't operating at 100% when he fought Carol after all the abuse he already faced, but we also need to consider the feats he performs while tired. His struggling against Thor is cited as evidence that he's not at his best, which I agree with, but it isn't mentioned that seconds before he one-shotted Iron Man with an elbow, one-shotted Worthy Cap with a single punch along with one-shotting Thor with a headbutt too, which in fairness that last one was pointed out. Still, when watching the clip all the way through it's clear that she's doing a much better job than the trio of Cap, Thor and Iron Man and hurting him far more than they were. This brings me to my own view on how we should handle Carol's AP as Point 4 has already been addressed by others in this thread.

Spoiler: My view on everything

So Carol tanking a headbutt from Thanos is definitely inconsistent with what was shown earlier but there's a pretty simple explanation. Despite my disagreement with her absorbing energy from the gauntlet when she was just holding it before fighting Thanos, it's very likely that she was absorbing power from it when Thanos was wearing it. Notice the heavy aura around her hands and the gauntlet while she's restraining him. It makes more sense that the reason why she was no-selling that headbutt and overpowering Thanos was because she was absorbing power at that point, meanwhile, she was more comparable to him earlier when she was just at normal strength. What I think we should do using this logic is change Carol's AP justification to instead of scaling to full-power Thanos, upscaling Thor, Iron Man and Worthy Cap and just being comparable to a tired Thanos. I do agree that we should add "higher with energy absorption" to her profile though and use her absorbing power from the gauntlet while Thanos was wearing it to completely overpower him when before they were equal as a justification.

TL;DR for this is basically I think we should downgrade Captain Marvel but she should still stay the same tier, it's just the scaling chain goes like this now:

Iron Man, Thor and Worthy Cap (Can put up a good fight but eventually all get one-shot) << Captain Marvel = Tired Thanos (Thanos gets pressed by Carol pretty hard but he can still throw her away with little resistance) < Captain Marvel (Absorbing power) =< Full Power Thanos <<< Scarlet Witch (Bare minimum 4.75x stronger than Mark 80 Iron Man)

 

[Lacku]

thanos was incredibly tired my guy he was so tired that Tony with a injured suit physically overpowered and took 3 strikes to shake him off when previously a single hit sent Tony flying

He literally sent him flying with one elbow while tired

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Reading through all of these points, while I agree Carol in her base isn't as strong as she's made out to be currently on her profile, there are actually many assumptions made here that aren't very accurate.

Spoiler: Point 1

First of all her supposedly "absorbing" energy from the Nanotech Gauntlet since she didn't suffer from any kind of power surge in her body like Iron Man, Thanos and Hulk had to deal with is a complete misunderstanding of the scene. She's only holding the gauntlet, just like how Spider-Man, T'Challa and Hawkeye were holding it moments prior. Are they superior to Thanos because they could do that or absorb energy from it? Nope. They were just holding it. Holding the gauntlet and wearing the gauntlet are two completely different things so the first point is completely moot.

Not really, she’s holding the gauntlet that’s surging with power then suddenly becomes stronger because she absorbs energy. Pete, BP and Clint are irrelevant to this discussion since non wore the gauntlet

Spoiler: Point 2

Point 2 also has many contradictions. The point is made that despite currently being considered stronger than Thanos and therefore Mark 80 Iron Man, Carol could only handle one punch from the Power Stone, meanwhile, in this post's own words, Mark 50 Iron Man is "capable of taking multiple blasts" from the stone. This isn't exactly true either. Iron Man on Titan blocks the first blast from the Power Stone with his shield, which is already considered higher than his normal durability on his profile, and the second, which is a punch from the stone similar to the one Carol gets hurled back by, leaves him basically defeated. After this Tony quickly loses the fight and gets stabbed by Thanos. So by this logic, Mark 50 Iron Man isn't stronger than Carol but more comparable. We also need to realise how the Power Stone works, it changes the amount of power it uses depending on its target. This means that on a weaker opponent, it will only use the amount of force necessary against it. This means that the blow that Carol took could've been far deadlier than the one Tony took on Titan, so that makes that argument against Carol moot too. I will say the point about Thanos not getting ragdolled by Carol at this point in the fight is very important and I'll touch on that later.

Tony take a blast, stained counciess while already damaged and was able to retilate unlike carol. The power stone has only shown to have varying lvls of power when unweilded, there’s no reason to assume Thanos can’t control the stone’s output, especially since he doesn’t just blow up the moon in Infinity war

Spoiler: Point 3

In Point 3 Thanos being tired at this point during the final battle is emphasised. I agree that he probably wasn't operating at 100% when he fought Carol after all the abuse he already faced, but we also need to consider the feats he performs while tired. His struggling against Thor is cited as evidence that he's not at his best, which I agree with, but it isn't mentioned that seconds before he one-shotted Iron Man with an elbow, one-shotted Worthy Cap with a single punch along with one-shotting Thor with a headbutt too, which in fairness that last one was pointed out. Still, when watching the clip all the way through it's clear that she's doing a much better job than the trio of Cap, Thor and Iron Man and hurting him far more than they were. This brings me to my own view on how we should handle Carol's AP as Point 4 has already been addressed by others in this thread.

Tony took multiple blows from chin sack and thanos was only able to push him away seeing as tony gets up two seconds later and snaps. Thanos taking out Thor and cap is more a testament to his strength than anything. He was clearly struggling way more than usual but still took them out. Besides non of them actually get a chance to hit thanos at this point unlike carol so it’s not like we have a direct comparison

Spoiler: My view on everything

So Carol tanking a headbutt from Thanos is definitely inconsistent with what was shown earlier but there's a pretty simple explanation. Despite my disagreement with her absorbing energy from the gauntlet when she was just holding it before fighting Thanos, it's very likely that she was absorbing power from it when Thanos was wearing it. Notice the heavy aura around her hands and the gauntlet while she's restraining him. It makes more sense that the reason why she was no-selling that headbutt and overpowering Thanos was because she was absorbing power at that point, meanwhile, she was more comparable to him earlier when she was just at normal strength. What I think we should do using this logic is change Carol's AP justification to instead of scaling to full-power Thanos, upscaling Thor, Iron Man and Worthy Cap and just being comparable to a tired Thanos. I do agree that we should add "higher with energy absorption" to her profile though and use her absorbing power from the gauntlet while Thanos was wearing it to completely overpower him when before they were equal as a justification.

I already said this in point 1. Not really, she punched a couple times, he shrugged it off then tossed her away

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Spoiler

• The Iron Man one-shot was to his exposed head when he didn't have a helmet on, so it's just Tony Stark's 9-B durability, not the nanotech armour
• The Thor one-shot is very weird since Thor remained conscious from many punches and kicks from Thanos when it was early into the final Endgame battle, prior to all the chaos that happened afterwards. So I'd like to think Thor was also weary from so much fighting after having getting his shit kicked in and trying to prevent Stormbreaker from being shoved into his chest. Also, after IW Thor survived a huge off-screen beating from Thanos, he managed to remain conscious from Power Stone attacks, one of which Thanos was more than willing to kill Thor and Loki giving him the blatant Go Ahead
• I don't really have much to say about Worthy Cap, since there's not really much going for his durability other than scaling to Thor, taking a slam from Thanos and getting up shortly afterwards, and a cut to the leg by the Double-Bladed Sword.

There's also the fact that, at the weakest he ever was and himself admitting that he was almost killed, Thanos could tank attacks from Captain Marvel and even slowly overpower her.

The most that Captain Marvel showed against Thanos before the infamous scene was catching him off-guard and staggering him a bit before Thanos grabs her arm and throws her aside. Staggering without showing actual harm isn't a good reason for scaling between characters

 

[darkphantom9805]

He literally sent him flying with one elbow while tired

You literally just proved my point my guy

Thanos was physically overpowered by tony and took 3 strikes to shake him this takes place after the elbow because he was so fatigued

Thanos fought a gauntlet of high tiers 2 of which almost beat him Wanda and cap that taxed him fought Thor and cap again pushing him to his limits almost killing him then carol then putting the gauntlet on which had him screaming in pain then carol again

 

[Lacku]

Not really, she’s holding the gauntlet that’s surging with power then suddenly becomes stronger because she absorbs energy. Pete, BP and Clint are irrelevant to this discussion since non wore the gauntlet

I'm gonna call myself out on this and say I misunderstood this point and thought you were referring to Carol just holding the gauntlet before confronting Thanos. We both actually agree she was absorbing power from the gauntlet and that's what made her stronger than Thanos.

Tony take a blast, stained counciess while already damaged and was able to retilate unlike carol. The power stone has only shown to have varying lvls of power when unweilded, there’s no reason to assume Thanos can’t control the stone’s output, especially since he doesn’t just blow up the moon in Infinity war

Tony didn't get sent back as far as Carol and we don't get to see how far away she landed, there's only 30 seconds in between her getting hurled back and Thanos nearly snapping before Iron Man stops him so it's likely she had no time to recover and retaliate, unlike Tony on Titan who was right there. We also don't know if Thanos has that level of control over the Power Stone to the point that he can control its output. If that was the case anybody to get hit by the Power Stone and survive would be Large Planet level since why wouldn't Thanos go for the stone's maximum power output to kill his opponents?

Tony took multiple blows from chin sack and thanos was only able to push him away seeing as tony gets up two seconds later and snaps. Thanos taking out Thor and cap is more a testament to his strength than anything. He was clearly struggling way more than usual but still took them out. Besides non of them actually get a chance to hit thanos at this point unlike carol so it’s not like we have a direct comparison

If by two seconds you mean a whole minute (I counted after being knocked out at 1:31 he regains consciousness at 2:33). Also you hyping up Thanos strength at this stage proves my point. Carol was still comparable to a tired Thanos who was stronger than Worthy Cap and Thor.

I already said this in point 1. Not really, she punched a couple times, he shrugged it off then tossed her away

Yeah he shrugged it off but she was still clearly hurting him.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Why was it denied we literally have a direct wog statement on it

Because reasons, people are anxious that it’ll cause scaling issues or whatever

 

[darkphantom9805]

you do realize that Thanos beat cap and Thor before putting the gauntlet on which weakened him heavily

 

[Lacku]

You literally just proved my point my guy

Thanos was physically overpowered by tony and took 3 strikes to shake him this takes place after the elbow because he was so fatigued

Tired Thanos is still clearly stronger than Mark 80 Iron Man (as shown in the gif you shared) and he was getting pressed and injured by Captain Marvel two seconds earlier so why is it so unbelievable that she scales to his weaker strength? It's not even like I'm saying she scales or is stronger than his full power.

 

[Lacku]

you do realize that Thanos beat cap and Thor before putting the gauntlet on which weakened him heavily

The gauntlet wasn't on whenever Carol was overpowering him the first time so again that's another irrelevant point. Every single rebuttal you've given me has holes in it.

 

[darkphantom9805]

Tired Thanos is still clearly stronger than Mark 80 Iron Man (as shown in the gif you shared) and he was getting pressed and injured by Captain Marvel two seconds earlier so why is it so unbelievable that she scales to his weaker strength? It's not even like I'm saying she scales or is stronger than his full power.

Not really tony physically overpowered him unless your saying he just let tony hold onto his arm no reason he couldn’t snatch it back
Then it literally took 3 strikes to shake him off bruh how is that not massively tired

 

[darkphantom9805]

The gauntlet wasn't on whenever Carol was overpowering him the first time so again that's another irrelevant point. Every single rebuttal you've given me has holes in it.

???? Did you watch the movie yes it was in fact Thanos actually overpowered her and rag rolled her before putting the gauntlet on

And if you mean farmer Thanos he literally physically overpowered her leg with his injured arm

Most the things you say have holes in it

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

I'm gonna call myself out on this and say I misunderstood this point and thought you were referring to Carol just holding the gauntlet before confronting Thanos. We both actually agree she was absorbing power from the gauntlet and that's what made her stronger than Thanos.

Cool

Tony didn't get sent back as far as Carol and we don't get to see how far away she landed, there's only 30 seconds in between her getting hurled back and Thanos nearly snapping before Iron Man stops him so it's likely she had no time to recover and retaliate, unlike Tony on Titan who was right there. We also don't know if Thanos has that level of control over the Power Stone to the point that he can control its output. If that was the case anybody to get hit by the Power Stone and survive would be Large Planet level since why wouldn't Thanos go for the stone's maximum power output to kill his opponents?

Carol is pretty fast so it doesn’t really matter how far she got sent back. I already pointed out an example of his control with titans moon

If by two seconds you mean a whole minute (I counted after being knocked out at 1:31 he regains consciousness at 2:33). Also you hyping up Thanos strength at this stage proves my point. Carol was still comparable to a tired Thanos who was still stronger than Worthy Cap and Thor.

I was referring to when he steals the stones. Not really, she was shown struggling with a weaker thanos in the beginning of the film and got overpowered while he tanked her attacks

Yeah he shrugged it off but she was still clearly hurting him.

Not really, she punches him and he throws her away