Marco vs Sanji: The Battle of Queen's daddies.

[Kachon123]

Anyways, Marco doesn't really have anything to put Sanji down, while Sanji has a counter to pretty much everything Marco can do offensively and defensively.

 

[Kachon123]

They couldn't, it's kind of impossible to fully stop him from doing it without seastone or the Yami Yami no Mi.

this guy summed it up pretty well

And someone that has a Haki Potency ≥ Marco's would be able to negate that healing to some extent as shown by Garp's attack not healing post-marineford, and how Marco's injuries from the Onigashima raid still not being healed despite over a week passing

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Anyways, Marco doesn't really have anything to put Sanji down, while Sanji has a counter to pretty much everything Marco can do offensively and defensively.

True!
I mean it isn't like Marco was capable of keeping up with King ( a fire user who has flames more intense than Sanji's ) and even knocked him into a wall.
Or like he could counter various fire attacks like Bolo Breath with one defensive move.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

And someone that has a Haki Potency ≥ Marco's would be able to negate that healing to some extent as shown by Garp's attack not healing post-marineford, and how Marco's injuries from the Onigashima raid still not being healed despite over a week passing

These are all from injuries to his head, which means his head is harder to heal. I imagine that'd be the case because if he can just regen every part of his body he's practically invincible if you don't have the Yami Yami or Seastone.
But even if that's not true and you're correct, Sanji doesn't have Haki above Marco's, so that doesn't matter.

 

[Kachon123]

I mean it isn't like Marco was capable of keeping up with King

For like 20 minutes at most before before being put down without giving any injuries to King.

a fire user who has flames more intense than Sanji's

Based on?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

For like 20 minutes at most before before being put down without giving any injuries to King.

Yeah, "put down" ( FYI, that's a term commonly used to refer to an animal that got executed due to being sick with no cure usually, meanwhile Marco was just knocked out or really winded from his fights ) after he had to spam his flames all around the room to heal people, whilst fighting 2 commanders.

Based on?

 

[Kachon123]

Yeah, "put down" ( FYI, that's a term commonly used to refer to an animal that got executed due to being sick with no cure usually, meanwhile Marco was just knocked out or really winded from his fights )

Marco is lucky King didn't attack Marco while he was exhausted, which Sanji definitely would do.

 

[TauanVictor]

Sanji FRA

 

[Kachon123]

Where does it mention heat?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Where does it mention heat?

I'm done, this mf is trolling me rn

 

[Kachon123]

Zoro could've easily be talking about the way it looks, as he never even mentioned heat.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Anyway I think it's 3 votes for Marco ( Me, Eseseso, and FourLeafCloverz ) and 2 for Sanji ( TauanVictor and Kachon )

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Zoro could've easily be talking about the way it looks, as he never even mentioned heat.

Well that was obvious that it looked like Magma, but did it feel like it? That's what Zoro was talking about. The ambient heat of the attack.

 

[Kachon123]

but did it feel like it? That's what Zoro was talking about.

Based on?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Based on?

Based on him literally saying the heat is like magma. If it wasn't, and he could cut it, then he wouldn't have dodged it.

 

[Kachon123]

Based on him literally saying the heat is like magma

Where??

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Where??

 

[Kachon123]

When did he mention heat?

 

[Eminiteable]

It still likely drained Marco's energy since he was the one actually using those flames.

It would have taxed his energy when he performed the technique, but afterwards the flames themselves were being maintained by the ice oni victims own stamina.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

When did he mention heat?

I'm not falling for this one again.

It would have taxed his energy when he performed the technique, but afterwards the flames themselves were being maintained by the ice oni victims own stamina.

Why does this matter? It's not like he'd use that attack in a 1v1 like this.

 

[Kachon123]

I'm not falling for this one again.

I want you to circle where it mentioned heat. If you can't do that, or even provide a good reason as to why it heat fits in here, then that argument is null.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

I want you to circle where it mentioned heat. If you can't do that, or even provide a good reason as to why it heat fits in here, then that argument is null.

I'll do you one better:
Why mention it's like magma if he wasn't referring to the heat? Why even make it look like magma if it isn't actually like it?

 

[Eseseso]

We need the King in here.

 

[Kachon123]

Why mention it's like magma if he wasn't referring to the heat?

Mentioning the flame's likeness to Magma isn't enough to say that he was referring specifically to heat.

Why even make it look like magma if it isn't actually like it?

?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

We need the King in here.

Tempest?

Mentioning the flame's likeness to Magma isn't enough to say that he was referring specifically to heat.

What is the point of him saying it's like Magma if he wasn't talking about the heat? It was very obvious that it looked like magma, we aren't that dumb that we need Oda to spoonfeed us to the point of him even describing the looks of something.

 

[Kachon123]

What is the point of him saying it's like Magma if he wasn't talking about the heat? It was very obvious that it looked like magma, we aren't that dumb that we need Oda to spoonfeed us to the point of him even describing the looks of something.

So basically what I'm hearing is headcannon?

Also, just to kill your argument even more, this is what a reaction to ambient heat looks like, not whatever Zoro did.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

So basically what I'm hearing is headcannon?

Also, just to kill your argument even more, this is what a reaction to ambient heat looks like, not whatever Zoro did.

Luffy arguably has a higher resistance than Zoro, and he also touched Kaidou directly.

 

[Eminiteable]

Why mention it's like magma if he wasn't referring to the heat? Why even make it look like magma if it isn't actually like it?

Maybe it's actually magma.

 

[Kachon123]

Sanji:

• More skilled
• Has hotter flames than Marco has dealt with before
• Can negate his regen to an extent
• Is faster
• Arguably stronger
• Has better Kenbun usage feats
• Can regen from Marco's shockwaves
• Has better stamina

Marco:

• Undying thistle, which he likely won't use in this situation can block any of Sanji's attacks
• Can blow away Sanji's flames (although Sanji can just put it back on his leg again faster than Marco can blow it away since hes much slower than Sanji)
• Has better mobility

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Sanji:

• More skilled
• Has hotter flames than Marco has dealt with before
• Can negate his regen to an extent
• Is faster
• Arguably stronger
• Has better Kenbun usage feats
• Can regen from Marco's shockwaves
• Has better stamina

Marco:

• Undying thistle, which he likely won't use in this situation can block any of Sanji's attacks
• Can blow away Sanji's flames (although Sanji can just put it back on his leg again faster than Marco can blow it away since hes much slower than Sanji)
• Has better mobility

1: More skilled? Highly doubt it. Marco has been a pirate for considerably longer than Sanji and has fought the Admirals and people in Roger's crew, so he has more experience and skill.
2: Marco has clashed with and stopped Akainu before, so Sanji's flames are not a huge issue to him.
3: True, Sanji's Armament Haki will indeed negate his regen, but it won't fully stop it so I don't think that's worth mentioning ( again the Admirals needed to put seastone on him to actually permanently damage him, that's just the nature of his fruit, any attack without seastone or the Yami Yami no Mi used in them won't permanently hurt him, it seems ).
4: I'm not sure he's faster, Marco was able to react to people like the Admirals, and again, people from Roger's crew. Meanwhile Sanji still got tagged by Queen a few times.
5: Pretty sure someone said Marco was able to match/clash with 1 Homie Big Mom, who is way stronger than Queen as she put him down in 1 hit without Homies or Haki.
6: See 4 and 2.
7: How??
8: I don't really see that. Marco's stamina is actually a little high when he isn't spreading his flames for everyone to heal off of. He even fought for the entire Marineford war despite fighting the Admirals and other Marines.
Also you don't know if he wouldn't use Undying Thistle in a 1v1, that's pure head canon because you think him using it to protect people means he won't use it protect himself which is weird logic honestly.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Maybe it's actually magma.

That helps my point.

 

[Eminiteable]

Idk why King's magma flames are relevant here though, he never used them against Marco.

 

[Kachon123]

1: More skilled? Highly doubt it. Marco has been a pirate for considerably longer than Sanji and has fought the Admirals and people in Roger's crew, so he has more experience and skill.

Experience ≠ Skill. All your arguments throughout this entire thread is based on speculation and headcanon. Do those people have any skill feats at all, let alone skill feats surpassing Sanji's? No.

2: Marco has clashed with and stopped Akainu before, so Sanji's flames are not a huge issue to him.

Sanji can easily counter him

but it won't fully stop it so I don't think that's worth mentioning

It literally is?

I'm not sure he's faster, Marco was able to react to people like the Admirals, and again, people from Roger's crew. Meanwhile Sanji still got tagged by Queen a few times.

Ok

5: Pretty sure someone said Marco was able to match/clash with 1 Homie Big Mom, who is way stronger than Queen as she put him down in 1 hit without Homies or Haki.

Ok

7: How??

Shockwaves in One Piece attack from the insides, destroying bones and organs, which Sanji has regenerated from before already.

I don't really see that. Marco's stamina is actually a little high when he isn't spreading his flames for everyone to heal off of.

Not as high as Sanji's. Also, the only part of that process that took stamina from him was the actual activation of the ability. The flames working ran off of the alliance's stamina not him. Why do I have to keep repeating things?

Also you don't know if he wouldn't use Undying Thistle in a 1v1

He never has.

That helps my point.

Someone saying that it "maybe is magma" isn't an argument, isn't proven, is just speculation. It does not help a point.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Idk why King's magma flames are relevant here though, he never used them against Marco.

Yeah fair point.

Experience ≠ Skill. All your arguments throughout this entire thread is based on speculation and headcanon. Do those people have any skill feats at all, let alone skill feats surpassing Sanji's? No.

Sanji can easily counter him

It literally is?

Ok

Ok

Shockwaves in One Piece attack from the insides, destroying bones and organs, which Sanji has regenerated from before already.

Not as high as Sanji's. Also, the only part of that process that took stamina from him was the actual activation of the ability. The flames working ran off of the alliance's stamina not him. Why do I have to keep repeating things?

He never has.

Someone saying that it "maybe is magma" isn't an argument, isn't proven, is just speculation. It does not help a point.

I'm not really here to have a shit slinging contest lol. You won't even accept the fact that Marco has more evidence that he's more skilled/experienced than Sanji, and you're bringing up things like Sanji countering Bon Clay, who doesn't have Observation Haki nor is he nearly as fast or perceptive as Marco.
Also Sanji's "regeneration" is, to quote Eseseso, " like the Berserker Armor from Berserk ", and probably won't work if Marco uses a shockwave on his head, it'll just clap his brain and then he won't even be able to think.

Not going to lie, I like Sanji, and I don't blame you for liking him too, but you gotta stop with the obsessive wank Kachon. It just doesn't seem like Sanji could win this fight, though it probably wouldn't be a stomp for Marco since even if he can negate Sanji's flames and tag him, Sanji still has Armament and an Exoskeleton on top of his naturally hard hitting legs.
Basically I'm still voting Marco, and if you disagree with the things I said that's fine though, but do provide valid reasoning that isn't pictures of Sanji fighting someone way below Marco's league or him using abilities that wouldn't work against Marco's attacks ( depending where they land ).

 

[Kachon123]

You won't even accept the fact that Marco has more evidence that he's more skilled/experienced than Sanji

Again, skill ≠ experience. What is the evidence that Marco is more skilled than Sanji?

Also Sanji's "regeneration" is, to quote Eseseso, " like the Berserker Armor from Berserk ", and probably won't work if Marco uses a shockwave on his head,

Not an argument.

Not going to lie, I like Sanji, and I don't blame you for liking him too, but you gotta stop with the obsessive wank Kachon.

How am I wanking him??

 

[Kachon123]

Your entire arguments (if you can even call them that) are complete bullshit that you pulled out of nowhere. You keep bringing up things that have been addressed before (keep repeating skill=experience and bringing up King's flames). I want you to concisely list Marco's wincons, how Sanji has no answer to them, and how Marco would win instead of claiming I'm wanking.

I don't think I've even seen you post a scan this entire debate. If you're going to keep up with this brainrotting excuse for a debate, I'll just leave. This is ridiculous.

 

[Eseseso]

Sanji is not stronger than Marco.

Marco clashed with 1-Homie Big Mom evenly, and was equal to Zoan King (who was equal to Start-of-Fight Buso Zoro, who one-shot Killer who took hits from Big Mom).

Sanji struggled to defeat Hybrid Queen, who Big Mom with no Homies, exhaustion, and amnesia took down in 2 blows.

 

[Kachon123]

Sanji struggled to defeat Hybrid Queen

I can't find the struggle.

Marco clashed with 1-Homie Big Mom evenly, and was equal to Zoan King (who was equal to Start-of-Fight Buso Zoro, who one-shot Killer who took hits from Big Mom).

Sanji did worse to Queen than Big Mom did to Queen.

 

[Eseseso]

I can't find the struggle.

The fact that Sanji required a while to take Queen down while BM easily two-shot him

Sanji did worse to Queen than Big Mom did to Queen.

Because Queen was exhausted from fighting Sanji and Marco, not to mention that Sanji's Ifrit Jambe beatdown was aided by Queen being an absolute moron and getting distracted at the worst possible moment.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Your entire arguments (if you can even call them that) are complete bullshit that you pulled out of nowhere. You keep bringing up things that are either irrelevent to your argument (keep repeating skill=experience and bringing up King's flames). I want you to concisely list Marco's wincons, how Sanji has no answer to them, and how Marco would win instead of claiming I'm wanking.

I don't think I've even seen you post a scan this entire debate. If you're going to keep up with this brainrotting excuse for a debate, I'll just leave. This is ridiculous.

I've brought up valid evidence as to why Marco can tag Sanji, why he's as powerful as him, and why he can neg his flames.
I stopped bringing up the King argument because I realized it was stupid as King didn't bother using his magma-flames on him during their battles, so I shifted to an actually valid fight that actually involved heat on the level of magma, which is Marco clashing with Akainu's magma, and also clashing with Kizaru's lasers:

And this also leads to Marco being more skilled- He's been fighting opponents stronger and faster than Sanji for a while and he's managed to clash with them and even counter some of them. He's also been doing it longer than Sanji, thus he's more experienced as well.