Marco vs Sanji: The Battle of Queen's daddies.

[Eseseso]

Both these 2 blondies slapped Queen's shit and have fire powers, so let's make 'em fight!

Location: Onigashima Live Hall, starting 25m away

In-character


Scaling Chains for AP:

Scabbards = Jack < Base Queen < Zoan/Hybrid Queen = Base Onigashima Raid Sanji < Onigashima Raid Diable Jambe << Post-Exoskeleton Base Sanji < Post-Exoskeleton Diable Jambe << Post-Exoskeleton Ifrit Jambe.

Base Marco = Admirals (as he matched their AP using limbs that were normal and not turned into Phoenix Fire limbs)

Zoan/Hybrid Marco = Base Yonko lvl people (like King and 1-Homie Big Mom)


Sanji: 1 (@Kachon123)

Marco: 3 (@TheMonkeMan, @FourLeafCloverz, @Eseseso)

Incon: 0

 

[Kachon123]

Following

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Marco's blue fire lets him counter ( or clash with ) people who use regular fire, so things like Diable Jambe and Ifrit Jambe are just basic armament kicks against Marco. Sanji would probably have to produce flames as intense and large as Ace's Entei attack for Marco to be unable to really keep up with it.
Also, if Marco is = Admirals physically that means he's comparable to Aramaki who roflstomped King and Queen ( Y'know, Sanji's opponent, who pushed him to mid/high diff ) , but in their defense they were heavily wounded and got restrained and dried out by him, so..
Besides him physically matching the Admirals ( one of them actually intercepted a double handed swing from Whitebeard with one leg, though iirc legs/feet are about twice as strong as arms and Akainu was using his fruit there ), Marco also hurt King and kneed him into a wall. Meanwhile Sanji had on a Raid Suit and got speed blitzed by King despite having great Observation ( he also thought it might rip a hole in him or tear him in half and made a comment specifically about his Raid Suit protecting him )
If it isn't clear, I vote for Marco.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Interesting

 

[Kachon123]

Marco's blue fire lets him counter people who use regular fire, so things like Diable Jambe and Ifrit Jambe are just basic armament kicks against Marco.

Based on?

Sanji would probably have to produce flames as intense and large as Ace's Entei attack for Marco to be unable to really keep up with it.

Shouldn't really be an issue as Fishman Island Sanji's Hell's Memories was able to easily engulf Wadatsumi.

Also, if Marco is = Admirals physically that means he's comparable to Aramaki who roflstomped King and Queen ( Y'know, Sanji's opponent, who pushed him to mid/high diff ) , but in their defense they were heavily wounded and got restrained and dried out by him, so..

Not an argument as we didn't see the fight play out and Queen was literally missing an arm.

Marco also hurt King and kneed him into a wall.

Marco never hurt King, and knocking someone back w/o damage isn't a feat.

Meanwhile Sanji had on a Raid Suit and got speed blitzed by King despite having great Observation

Never happened?

 

[Eseseso]

Marco's blue fire lets him counter ( or clash with ) people who use regular fire, so things like Diable Jambe and Ifrit Jambe are just basic armament kicks against Marco.

I mean that basic armament, combined with Sanji's enhanced speed and exoskeleton, would still hurt though.

Sanji would probably have to produce flames as intense and large as Ace's Entei attack for Marco to be unable to really keep up with it.

Yup.

Also, if Marco is = Admirals physically that means he's comparable to Aramaki who roflstomped King and Queen ( Y'know, Sanji's opponent, who pushed him to mid/high diff ) , but in their defense they were heavily wounded and got restrained and dried out by him,

If you hadn't mentioned that they had been weakened when they fought Aramaki, I swear...

Besides him physically matching the Admirals ( one of them actually intercepted a double handed swing from Whitebeard with one leg, though iirc legs/feet are about twice as strong as arms and Akainu was using his fruit there ), Marco also hurt King and kneed him into a wall. Meanwhile Sanji had on a Raid Suit and got speed blitzed by King despite having great Observation ( he also thought it might rip a hole in him or tear him in half and made a comment specifically about his Raid Suit protecting him )

True

If it isn't clear, I vote for Marco.

I'll add ya, buddy.

 

[Eseseso]

Based on?

His fight with Prometheus + Big Mom.

Shouldn't really be an issue as Fishman Island Sanji's Hell's Memories was able to easily engulf Wadatsumi.

I mean, it engulfed him but Sanji can't actually make a massive fireball like Entei

Not an argument as we didn't see the fight play out and Queen was literally missing an arm.

Ok.

Marco never hurt King, and knocking someone back w/o damage isn't a feat.

I'm sure he hurt King, just not enough to make him bleed since his flame-on durability is broken

Never happened?

Do you not remember Zoan King stomping Raid Suit Sanji?

 

[Eseseso]

Also, if I disappear, it was @KingTempest who did it!
It was not an accident!

 

[FourLeafCloverz]

I'll vote Marco for MonkeMan's reasons, but if a good case can be made for Sanji, I'll switch my vote.

 

[Eminiteable]

Sanji's normally more durable and due to his exo-skeleton overall harder to damage due to his resistances and "regeneration", but Marco's Undying Thistle technique is far more durable. Sanji's also far faster than Marco.

To my knowledge their buso potency's layers are roughly the same (4 layers) so Sanji should be able to negate Marco's regeneration to an extent. Marco's phoenix flames however possess "special properties" allowing him to repel flames such as Diable Jambe & Ifrit Jambe. Marco's flame attacks also act as shock-waves which negate durability.

Not voting yet but I think it's worth bringing up these factors.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Sanji's normally more durable and due to his exo-skeleton overall harder to damage due to his resistances and "regeneration", but Marco's Undying Thistle technique is far more durable. Sanji's also far faster than Marco.

To my knowledge their buso potency's layers are roughly the same (4 layers) so Sanji should be able to negate Marco's regeneration to an extent. Marco's phoenix flames however possess "special properties" allowing him to repel flames such as Diable Jambe & Ifrit Jambe. Marco's flame attacks also act as shock-waves which negate durability.

Not voting yet but I think it's worth bringing up these factors.

Oh, plus he stopped a Bolo Breath from Kaidou pretty easily. I feel that's also worth mentioning.
Edit: He also clashed with Akainu's magma.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Never happened?

 

[Eseseso]

Durability is a tough one.

On the one hand, Marco has taken hits from Admirals (and his Undying Thistle is indeed far tougher than Sanji, but he can't constantly spam Undying Thistle)

On the other, Sanji has one of the best durability feats in the story, by effortlessly tanking a sneak attack blow from Hybrid Queen, who scales above the scabbards. Even some yonko-lvl people would have been at least somewhat hurt by an attack like that (just ask Kaido, who got damaged by people far below Hybrid Queen).

Without Undying Thistle, durability is about even IMO, but Marco does have Undying Thistle (though Sanji could probably outmaneuver it) and his broken as **** regen (while Sanji's regen is more like the Berserker Armor from Berserk).

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Durability is a tough one.

On the one hand, Marco has taken hits from Admirals (and his Undying Thistle is indeed far tougher than Sanji, but he can't constantly spam Undying Thistle)

On the other, Sanji has one of the best durability feats in the story, by effortlessly tanking a sneak attack blow from Hybrid Queen, who scales above the scabbards. Even some yonko-lvl people would have been at least somewhat hurt by an attack like that (just ask Kaido, who got damaged by people far below Hybrid Queen).

Without Undying Thistle, durability is about even IMO, but Marco does have Undying Thistle (though Sanji could probably outmaneuver it) and his broken as **** regen (while Sanji's regen is more like the Berserker Armor from Berserk).

If Sanji is thrown into the air somehow he can't outmaneuver Marco though, as Marco is obviously better and faster in air.

 

[Eseseso]

Lemme see:


Marco:

+Probably higher AP
+OP Regen
+Superior Stamina (I think)
+More experienced and levelheaded
+Ranged attacks
+Immunity to fire
+Dura neg


Sanji:
+Haki lets him somewhat counter Marco's fire
+Faster with amps
+Should be about as durable
+Not too far behind in AP


Going with Marco

If Sanji is thrown into the air somehow he can't outmaneuver Marco though, as Marco is obviously better and faster in air.

Can't Sanji do those air jumps though?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Lemme see:


Marco:

+Probably higher AP
+OP Regen
+Superior Stamina (I think)
+More experienced and levelheaded
+Ranged attacks
+Immunity to fire
+Dura neg


Sanji:
+Haki lets him somewhat counter Marco's fire
+Faster with amps
+Should be about as durable
+Not too far behind in AP


Going with Marco

Can't Sanji do those air jumps though?

His air jumps can't compare to Marco's flight

 

[Kachon123]

His fight with Prometheus + Big Mom.

He never negated prometheus. He only harmed him due to having 'unique flames'

 

[Kachon123]

I'm sure he hurt King,

Send a scan

Do you not remember Zoan King stomping Raid Suit Sanji?

Wasn't a blitz??

 

[Kachon123]

Where did Sanji get blitzed?

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Where did Sanji get blitzed?

Wdym? It's right there, King blitzed him and tried to rip him in half.

 

[Kachon123]

Marco:

+Probably higher AP
+OP Regen
+Superior Stamina (I think)
+More experienced and levelheaded
+Ranged attacks
+Immunity to fire
+Dura neg


Sanji:
+Haki lets him somewhat counter Marco's fire
+Faster with amps
+Should be about as durable
+Not too far behind in AP

The AP argument is false. Marco doesn't have better AP than Sanji
Marco's regen gets negated by Sanji's haki
Superior stamina based on?
More levelheaded based on?
Ranged attacks that could easily be dodge and counteres (similar to what Sanji did to Queen's Black Coffee in chapter 1028)
He's not immune to fire?
All of Marco's dura neg attacks neg counteres by Sanji's germa body-restoring hax.

 

[Kachon123]

Wdym? It's right there, King blitzed him and tried to rip him in half.

Sanji was distracted from talking to Momo and Shinobu

As Sanji's looking and talked to them, King catches him off guard, and by that point, it was too late

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Yup.

Wait, maybe he can take attacks like Entei:

 

[Kachon123]

Sanji's normally more durable and due to his exo-skeleton overall harder to damage due to his resistances and "regeneration", but Marco's Undying Thistle technique is far more durable. Sanji's also far faster than Marco.

Yeah, even without amps Sanji is still a bit faster than Marco, so it would be hard for Marco to even land hits.

 

[Kachon123]

Wait, maybe he can take attacks like Entei:

Scaling off of WB, Kizaru's attack explosion was probably only like 40 meters at best.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Scaling off of WB, Kizaru's attack explosion was probably only like 40 meters at best.

Proof? Also, either way it was a big ball of light that was certainly larger than Marco, and he still took it with ease.

 

[Eseseso]

Send a scan

When he kicked King and King then bled before the retcon.

I mean, even if King didn't bleed that still clearly hurt.

Wasn't a blitz??

You have a point that Sanji was distracted.

The AP argument is false. Marco doesn't have better AP than Sanji

Yes, he probably does. Dude matched a 1-Homie Big Mom, while Sanji had trouble defeating someone a tired no-Homie BM slapped around.

Marco's regen gets negated by Sanji's haki

True to at least some extent. I'm just not sure how the rules about Haki negating regen like that work.

Superior stamina based on?

Fought in the entire Marineford war, and fought 2 Yonko commanders while helping stave off the Oni virus for like a half-hour.

More levelheaded based on?

Have you seen Sanji? Dude has a lot of trouble keeping his cool.

Ranged attacks that could easily be dodge and counteres (similar to what Sanji did to Queen's Black Coffee in chapter 1028)

True

He's not immune to fire?

Was pretty immune to Prometheus

All of Marco's dura neg attacks neg counteres by Sanji's germa body-restoring hax.

I mean Sanji did to that after Snake-Queen crushed his bones and organs.

 

[Kachon123]

Proof? Also, either way it was a big ball of light that was certainly larger than Marco, and he still took it with ease.

Just look at Whitebeard and look at the explosion. Whitebeard is 6.66 meters tall. Eyeballing it, it's probably like 40-50 meters wide.

That doesn't even matter though. Marco literally has not used that attack unless he was protection someone/people:

1. Against Kizaru (protecting Whitebeard)
2. Against King (protecting Zoro)
3. Against Kaido (protecting Nami)

It's very unlikely that he would even use it in a 1v1 scenario.

 

[Kachon123]

fought 2 Yonko commanders while helping stave off the Oni virus for like a half-hour.

He was only fighting King and using his flames that ran on the stamina of the alliance, not him, and he still ended up like this

 

[Kachon123]

I mean Sanji did to that after Snake-Queen crushed his bones and organs.

Which is what shockwaves do in One Piece

 

[Eseseso]

He was only fighting King and using his flames that ran on the stamina of the alliance, not him

1. He still attacked Queen

2. Ran on the stamina of the alliance? What are you talking about?

 

[Eseseso]

Which is what shockwaves do in One Piece

What I meant was that I agree with that point

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Just look at Whitebeard and look at the explosion. Whitebeard is 6.66 meters tall. Eyeballing it, it's probably like 40-50 meters wide.

That doesn't even matter though. Marco literally has not used that attack unless he was protection someone/people:

1. Against Kizaru (protecting Whitebeard)
2. Against King (protecting Zoro)
3. Against Kaido (protecting Nami)

It's very unlikely that he would even use it in a 1v1 scenario.

That just means it's his go-to move for protection/defense.

Marco's regen gets negated by Sanji's haki

Didn't the Admirals have someone sneak seastone cuffs on him at Marineford because they otherwise couldn't stop his regen? The OG Admiral trio has better Armament than Sanji, FYI.

 

[Kachon123]

1. He still attacked Queen

For half a chapter, then King went on to 1v1 Marco.

2. Ran on the stamina of the alliance? What are you talking about?

Here

 

[Kachon123]

Didn't the Admirals have someone sneak seastone cuffs on him at Marineford because they otherwise couldn't stop his regen? The OG Admiral trio has better Armament than Sanji, FYI.

Make a CRT.

 

[Eseseso]

For half a chapter, then King went on to 1v1 Marco.

Still counts, technically

Here

Huh, did not know that.

It still likely drained Marco's energy since he was the one actually using those flames.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Make a CRT.

Uh, a CRT for what? Proof the Admirals have better Armament? No thanks, it was already shown when they used Advanced Armament to stop Whitebeard's shockwave.

 

[Kachon123]

Uh, a CRT for what? Proof the Admirals have better Armament? No thanks, it was already shown when they used Advanced Armament to stop Whitebeard's shockwave.

A CRT to prove that the Admirals couldn't negate his regen without putting seastone cuffs on.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

A CRT to prove that the Admirals couldn't negate his regen without putting seastone cuffs on.

They couldn't, it's kind of impossible to fully stop him from doing it without seastone or the Yami Yami no Mi.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

this guy summed it up pretty well