Low 2-C Zeref + other stuffs

[Jonrigade]

A parallel world in relation to time is very clearly going to be an alternate universe unless you think the Earth is spatiotemporally isolated to have its own history and divergences from everything else in the timeline. What the hell has the world come to?

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

Anyhow i'd suggest you to drop any arguments that relies on the usage of the word õ©ûþòî because it's pretty clear by now you don't even understand how the language works at all. Save everyone the time and trouble

 

[CloverDragon03]

As I said before, Ultear's mention of parallel worlds in relation to her Time Magic indicates the existence of parallel universes.

 

[Red-Eyed_Specter]

Which again, doesn't mean universe. Raws state that it's Worlds, Sekai, not a universe.

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

Which wouldn't matter whatsoever as at least 2 users have pointed out before as Zeref's own feat doesn't have anything to do with the existence of parallel universe

 

[CNBA3]

And parallel worlds in context is still referring to multiverse, it is well known common thing in any story that uses it. And different timelines do exist in FT, so they are still the same

 

[CloverDragon03]

And yet the link sent earlier shows that when referring to a multiverse (and note, Fairy Tail does run on multiverse theory), parallel worlds and parallel universes are the same thing

 

[Red-Eyed_Specter]

What are you guys even arguing at this point? Zeref's feat has nothing to do with alternate timelines or universes. He's resetting a singular world, to a certain point where isn't even that long. He's resetting it to where Acnologia wasn't as strong and he's only about 400.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Can people here, like, calm down now? I get this is a heated debate but theres no reason to start getting aggressive with each other.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I want to calm down, but I'm here literally being told:

"Stop arguing. You're wrong."

 

[CNBA3]

There is no statement of it resetting 400 years, just resetting time, timelines are referred to as time or worlds, and regular Eclipses affects those, and Neo Eclipse would destroy and create

Can people here, like, calm down now? I get this is a heated debate but theres no reason to start getting aggressive with each other.

Sorry, but when people are trying to cherry pick about when and where time affects anything when there is clear evidence of timelines and multiverses stated, it is hard to keep calm.

 

[Red-Eyed_Specter]

Hi pot I'm kettle.

 

[CNBA3]

• Facepalm* I shouldn't have comeback

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

Then simply don't

 

[CloverDragon03]

We're just making an argument, which you were also doing until you suddenly decided to start also being rude to the people making the arguments and hiding behind the "sorry if I'm rude" excuse.

 

[Red-Eyed_Specter]

You aren't arguing, you are quite literally ignoring several points and actual wiki standards. That's what we call stone-walling and being ignorant, you can take offense to that if you want, it's up to you to be offended or not. Point still stands that this isn't a low 2-C feat as stated by various users and staff members.

 

[Purgy]

It's hard to not get agitated when you guys are just repeating the same thing so I can't blame them for getting a little frustrated.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Weren't you also clinging onto that one singular word "world" and using that to try and slap away any argument we made, even after we've shown that the words "world" and "universe" can and, in this case, likely do mean the same thing?

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

Your arguments are quite literally you repeating yourselves over something that someone has already addressed, you not knowing how a certain language works, or you addressing someone's point with a completely different tangent altogether as if you don't even know what're even being argued around

Fairy Tail can have a much more complex cosmology than all the 1-A franchises that this site has, and it wouldn't change anything because Zeref's feat doesn't have anything to do with it. Anytime this issue is addressed you go back to lmao language and translation which you also never get right. At some point you probably went with range stuff too

Seeing a pattern yet?

 

[CNBA3]

And the standards would support with timelines and universes do exists in FT and how they are referred to as times or worlds, and Neo Eclipse would destroy and create them.

 

[ThatOneBrit]

I'm pretty sure everybody is destined to get annoyed if they feel like they're just arguing with a brick wall. However, there is a lot of repetitiveness from the Zeref side that isn't helping out too much. I'm pretty sure we've come full circle to world not automatically being universe four or five times now.

 

[EMS-TC02_Phantom]

And so we shall repeat ourselves again for how many times now?

 

[Red-Eyed_Specter]

If you actually bothered reading arguments no, wiki standards and various other arguments were brought up which you blatantly ignored. The only one who's focusing on the World argument is you, meanwhile we've been using other arguments. You quite literally said you disagree with a wiki standards, which are set rules that can't be changed as if that actually benefits your arguments in any way, and you have the audacity to sit here and say "they're just saying I'm wrong!!" don't try to make it seem like you aren't doing anything wrong here. Point being that the feat in question objectively isn't low 2-C.

 

[ThatOneBrit]

Weren't you also clinging onto that one singular word "world" and using that to try and slap away any argument we made, even after we've shown that the words "world" and "universe" can and, in this case, likely do mean the same thing?

This is literally a case and point example that we're going back to the exact same point yet again despite the discussion already happening on it.

 

[CNBA3]

I'm pretty sure everybody is destined to get annoyed if they feel like they're just arguing with a brick wall. However, there is a lot of repetitiveness from the Zeref side that isn't helping out too much. I'm pretty sure we've come full circle to world not automatically being universe four or five times now.

Even with statements how parallel worlds/universes exist and are multiverses and that timelines do exist too and how regular Eclipse affects them and Neo Eclipse does more?

 

[Red-Eyed_Specter]

Eclipse is a time travel spell, it allows for the travel for different points in time. That's all it is, time travel, Neo Eclipse is just a time reset, which isn't inherently low 2-C. Matthew is one of the most knowledgeable users here regarding the tiering system and even he doesn't agree with low 2-C here, you two are the only ones arguing for it. Your both outvoted and staff even disagree with you.

 

[ThatOneBrit]

It was discussed how the original source didn't mention universe, only world.

The point backtracked to a random character of other worlds which people had a problem with.

The point went back to said statement where we talked about hyperbole.

We went then back to the topic of you trying to use the localization over the source again.

So yes, that repetitiveness encompasess that, I didn't say you weren't offering some new ideas from here and there, just that there is a lot of repetition and emphasis on something you guys were saying wasn't even all that relevant.

 

[CNBA3]

even as original source means universe regardless of whatever it translates to because that is how multiverses operate based explicitely in context

Eclipse connects different timelines, it affects timelines, Neo Eclipse destroys and creates them, we have not heard back from Matthew after I replied to him how universes work in FT

 

[Zencha9]

so conclusions?

 

[Purgy]

There aren't any, and I doubt there ever will be tbh.

 

[Zencha9]

yeah i don't think there will be any

 

[ShadowGun45]

what do you think about being just a planet for Neo Eclipse, then ?

I think Red-Eyed's arguments make more sense

 

[Zencha9]

tbh i have no idea

edit:i'm neutral

 

[Davidsteel1]

This thread has devolved into something asinine. Expected but still irritating.

Firstly ur all so keen to prove each other wrong u all collectively ignore comments such as Jonrigade's:

A parallel world in relation to time is very clearly going to be an alternate universe unless you think the Earth is spatiotemporally isolated to have its own history and divergences from everything else in the timeline. What the hell has the world come to?

In other words objective comments that can aid here. But even then the entire discussion on parallel worlds or universes or whatever hardly matter in regards to this particular issue, we're arguing whether Neo-eclipse is low 2C or unquantifiable hax not the FT cosmology.

Secondly the fact that this is still going on- and is now hardly more than a pissing contest- when we more or less already have our answer is grating. Matthew has more or less already pointed out the differences between this and Pucci (meaning that comparison should end there) and given reasons y this remains unquantifiable hax.

So let this die.

 

[CNBA3]

It does matter though because they are related to how Neo Eclipse works, and we have yet to here Matthew reply

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

I'm siding with the no Low 2-C argument here now, after hearing all the arguments, it's valid that there just aren't enough statements or feats that actually wualify for Low 2-C, plus Zeref didn't actually pull the feat off like Pucci, so that makes it really hard to justify this tier, even then it's not solid Low 2-C

 

[CloverDragon03]

Here's why I think it should be Low 2-C:

1. In regards to time, the words "world" and "universe" are typically used interchangeably, especially in regard to a multiverse such as Fairy Tail, since Fairy Tail has been confirmed to go by multiverse theory.

2. Time resets have typically been accepted as universal+, even disregarding Pucci, as other characters have also been given a Low 2-C rating for the same thing. (Example: White Face)

3. Zeref implied that the original world would be wiped out with the use of Neo Eclipse. Again, "world" and "universe" can be used interchangeably when referencing time or a multiverse.

4. Unless this gets changed, Zeref's range with Neo Eclipse has already been listed as possibly Universal+, which would indicate that it has been agreed on that Zeref's Neo Eclipse would affect time on a universal scale.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Don't care about this tbh but I just want to mention Earthland does contain the Zodiac constellations so it needs to be however large to have those.

 

[AstralKing7]

Possible universal range+ was just disagreed upon up above @DragonGamer. So that doesn't really support anything at all

 

[CloverDragon03]

Hence why I said unless that gets changed, because no staff have said anything against it, only against the Low 2-C rating (which doesn't make sense really because given what Neo Eclipse is, you can't have one without the other)