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Legend of Zelda General Discussion Thread

Been looking through the official Zelda website for ***** and giggles (The older version, one that gave us the funny millions of worlds statements for the goddesses and the golden gauntlets mountain stuff), apparently the final battle between Link and Ganon in ALTTP lasted several days according to the site lmao, it's cool and all but I really struggle to buy into the idea that the final boss of that game actually went on for upwards of 48 hours.
 
I don't think the Demon King of Evil who's trying to murder a child would go "hey bro, let's take a quick break and then we can continue".
If anything he'd do it to get Link to lower his guard so he can kill him in his sleep.

And if Link suggested it Ganon obviously wouldn't agree to a mutual ceasefire with the hero.
 
Yeah ain't no way either one would stop fighting, stakes were too high for both of them and it wouldn't be in character for them.

Also in addition to them fighting for days the site says that the reason the silver arrows destroy Ganon is because they peirce his ******* soul, which is rad as hell.
 
So soul manip+dura neg for the arrows and Superhuman stamina for Beast Ganon and ALTTP Link?
Do we scale this to other Links that have the spirit of the hero?
 
Dust_Collector said:
Yeah ain't no way either one would stop fighting, stakes were too high for both of them and it wouldn't be in character for them.
Click to expand...
Naw, they must have taken a nap bro

Also in addition to them fighting for days the site says that the reason the silver arrows destroy Ganon is because they peirce his ******* soul, which is rad as hell.
Click to expand...

I was going to point out that the silver arrows killing Ganon in ALTTP is more likely to be destroying his soul than regen negation because we don't even see a soul left behind, unlike the time when Ganon's soul left Agahnim. How did Ganon come back after that
 
XXKINGXX69 said:
Naw, they must have taken a nap bro
Click to expand...
Or maybe one's a demonic all-powerful demon king and one is a hero with an unbreakable will and they just fought each other without stopping till one died and they just happen to have superhuman stamina
 
Chariot190 said:
So soul manip+dura neg for the arrows and Superhuman stamina for Beast Ganon and ALTTP Link?
Do we scale this to other Links that have the spirit of the hero?
Click to expand...
Yep
I'd honestly love to try and push this to the other Links but I don't think we can can

onhtMNf.png


Also it says that Ganon wasn't completely defeated by the arrow and he simply ended up sealed away again, which is weird but A Link Between Worlds also treats Ganons final defeat in ALTTP as him being sealed away instead of killed so 🤷‍♂️
 
Well, we know Ganon didn't actually die in ALTTP because of weird unified timeline shit with BOTW.

This means Ganon can take damage to his soul tho and live, not exactly an ability, or anything that would help with regen, but it's something to note all the same,
And yeah that sounds like blatant superhuman stamina for both.
 
Ganon would have resistance to soul manipulation with the legendary art of chaos though, he can tank silver arrows
 
"Tank" is quite how I'd describe it, a single shot causes his entire body to recoil in pain and it only takes a handful of silver arrows to finish him off. It probably does count as some kind of soul resist but I'd hesitate to call it a full on resistance.
 
I wouldn't call it resistance. The arrows still piercing his souls after all, if it was res, it wouldn't actually be doing that.
It just means he can tank getting it pierced and damaged, but he doesn't exactly resist the soulhax that causes said damage. Should still be noted all the same thou, would let him endure some soul damage that would normally cause others to drop dead through big dick energy ig.
 
Chariot190 said:
I wouldn't call it resistance. The arrows still piercing his souls after all, if it was res, it wouldn't actually be doing that.
It just means he can tank getting it pierced and damaged, but he doesn't exactly resist the soulhax that causes said damage. Should still be noted all the same thou, would let him endure some soul damage that would normally cause others to drop dead through big dick energy ig.
Click to expand...
How do you know it would normally cause others to drop dead? And they bounce off of him
 
Yeah they bounce off him when he's got his guard up, doesn't mean he's resisting the soul piercing effects of the arrows since, well, they're not piercing anything in the instances where they can't even make it past his skin
 
Would this apply to the silver arrows from the og zelda as well? Or do we treat this as an lttp exclusive since the silver arrows in this game are gotten from a great fairy blessing normal arrows while in the first game the arrows just kinda exist in Ganons lair for some reason.
 
I just did a quick check of the encyclopedia.
For items, it treats multiple incarnations of the light arrows the same, lanterns, swords, and more, basically being identical items, the same thing.
But it treats the ALTTP and 1 arrows as two different objects, so probably not.
 
'aight so looks like 31.727 Gigatons is the new value for Vaatis feat. So he's losing the + (RIP Wind Bozo). Thanks to sage scaling this gets ALTTP Link at his peak up to 190.362 Gigatons and base Ganondorf gets an extra High 6-C rating for his beast form. Other characters get changed around as well.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Made a rough start for the eventual 6-C to High 6-C CRT.

Also a bunch more stuff to go over, particularly with Skyward Sword (LMAO at the Imprisoned only scaling to an incomplete Master Sword).
Click to expand...
I know this is a silly question, but, now that you mention that there may be hints that Demise does create his arena to fight Link... why doesn't anybody scale to Majora's 4-C?
 
Yeah, thought as much. I am a bit surprised that there are not statements or lore that make a case of Ganondorf, Demise or the pieces of the Triforce being stronger than Majora (kinda like "Ganondorf, the king of evil, is the most formidable enemy the hero of Hyrule has ever faced... yadda yadda), given they are the main vilain and central force of the franchise. Not a complaint, just a random thought.
 
Yeah it's kinda weird that they never compare Majora to other villains (Not just in power but also in terms of anything else like motives). Honestly they rarely ever make any comparisons between any villains, like sometimes they'll mention stuff like Ganondorf being the reincarnation of Demise but for the most part they keep each major villain in the series pretty separated.
 
I've only just noticed we have a sandbox in these forums for making threads lmao and here I was making and using a sandbox on the main site to draft the CRT.

Anyhoo, here's the updated version of my proposed CRT, it's close to done but I'm just posting here in case anyone wants to point something out or add anything.
So starting off we have a recalc of the feat we currently use for our Island level+ ratings, not a massive change for many characters they'd just lose the + and that's about it. But it's not that simple and there's a lot more to this than deleting some plus signs. So to start off we have one of the 7 Sages, Rauru, being stated to have power greater than the Master Sword (Also greater than time but obvious hyperbole is obvious) and then of course there's the other Sages who are relative to Rauru, so each one scales to Island level for being superior to the Master Sword, big deal right? Well, yeah, it's a pretty big deal as a matter of fact because of one simple reason, each one adds their power to Link. This means that in addition of getting amped up to Island level due to wielding the Master Sword he also gets 6 further amps to his power, each amp pretty much adding another Master Sword's worth of power to his own. As for who this affects:
  • Phantom Ganon (OOT) - He fights Link who by that point has the power of the Master Sword and Rauru, making him Island level+ (63.454 Gigatons)
  • Volvagia - He fights Link who by that point added Sarias power to his own, making him Island level+ (95.181 Gigatons)
  • Link (Adventure of Link) - Defeated Volvagia, making him Island level+ (95.181 Gigatons)
  • Dark Link (Adventure of Link) - Fights against and is a perfect copy of AOL Link, making him Island level+ (95.181 Gigatons)
  • Morpha - It fights Link who by that point added Darunias power to his own, making it Large Island level (126.908 Gigatons)
  • Bongo Bongo - It fights Link who by that point added Rutos power to his own, making it Large Island level (158.635 Gigatons)
  • Twinrova - She fights Link who by that point added Impas power to his own, making her Large Island level (190.362 Gigatons)
  • Link (Oracles) - Fought and defeated Twinrova, making him Large Island level (190.362 Gigatons)
  • Onox - Fought Oracles Link, making him Large Island level (190.362 Gigatons)
  • Veran - Fought Oracles Link, making her Large Island level (190.362 Gigatons)
Crenando himself also gets some changes from this. First of all his base Gerudo form will remain unchanged (Just having the + removed) but his justification will be changed to, y'know, make sense. I have no idea who gave him his current justification but he should not scale to Demise just for being his reincarnation, that's stupid, he should have his justification be that he fought Link (Wind Waker) who had the Master Sword. However while his Gerudo form remains the same, he'll get an extra rating for his Beast form who fought with and was the biggest threat to Oracles Link, so Beast Ganon will scale to Large Island level (190.362 Gigatons). This also applies to Link (A Link to the Past) who with the Golden Sword fought and defeated Beast Ganon, and it goes without saying that the Golden Sword itself scales as well.

And on the topic of the Master Sword, it should have it's "Master Sword + Triforce of Courage" key removed because it's just silly. Not only does the Master Sword have no special connection to the TOC that it needs a whole key for it, the two of them together don't even automatically scale to the Triforce of Power, as we already established OOT Link with the Master Sword is noticeably weaker than TOP Ganon without the Sages amp, and then there's Wind Waker Link who despite having both the Master Sword and TOC gets absolutely rocked by Ganondorf (Who was even holding back as to not kill him). The scaling for it's Incomplete form is wrong as well, not only does Link never use it to take on Levias (He takes on the parasite that's possessing him) but he isn't even using the incomplete Master Sword, he had it upgraded to the True Master Sword before he meets Levias. Incomplete Master Sword should just upscale from the Multi-City Block level+ rating from it's previous key.

There's also the matter of Calamity Ganon. No idea who decided to just merge Calamity Ganon and all his forms into his base key but that shall be fixed. Calamity Ganon is durable enough to withstand being blasted by the combined power of the lasers fired by the Divine Beasts, and just one of these lasers are powerful enough to deal hefty damage to the Blight Ganons. Calamity Ganon can harm himself with his own attacks so bada bing bada boom he should be four times stronger than his blights putting him at Large Island level (126.908 Gigatons), this also applies to BOTW Link and Zelda. There is also Calamity Ganons stronger form, Dark Beast Ganon, who could be argued to scale to his base Beast form due to, well, being the same thing just jacked up with Malice. Also applies to his Age of Calamity self who attained his true power upon absorbing Astor. If Dark Beast Ganon and AOC Ganon scale to 190.362 Gigatons then this would apply to BOTW Link and Zelda at their peak since they can fight with AOC Calamity Ganon (The versions seen in BOTW would not scale to this, both are weakened by the time that game happens).

Now we move onto the Skyward Sword cast. Starting off we have The Imprisoned, it's Town level rating doesn't work. It varies in power (It gets stronger every time it escapes its seal due to regaining more of it's true power as Demise) so it can't have a static rating, and during it's third battle with Link Fi comments "The monster has evolved to an immensely powerful state. I calculate the odds you will defeat it by sword alone at approximately 0%". This is important because Link has the True Master Sword during this fight, and yet The Imprisoned is so strong that Link has a 0% chance of beating it in a straight up fight, and this is reflected in the boss fight itself where Link can only damage it's exposed weak spots (I have no idea if those gross white lumps are meant to be the equivalent of toes for it) and needs to resort to sealing it back within it's sealing spike. Given that it first battles Link when he has the baseline Goddess Sword it should be Varies, Building level+ to Island level. And moving onto Link, Demise, Hylia, and Ghirahim, they should scale to the BOTW characters since Zeldas sacred powers are derived from Hylia, plus she's the one who empowers Link throughout the game making him stronger to the point of being able to combat Calamity Ganon. And yes this is empowering him not just increasing his health and stamina since his hearts also tie into his strength and ability to pull out the Master Sword. So basically Hylia gets Large Island level (126.908 Gigatons, or 190.362 if we go the route of Prime Zelda and Peak Calamity Ganon being = Base Beast Ganon) and then Demise gets the same rating because he fought an intense battle with her and she had to resort to sealing him, Link defeats Demise, and Ghirahim (True Form) can put up a decent fight with Link.

Course this means a few other things will need to change. The Light Force for example needs to have it being a power source for Hylia as a justification removed since even Demises weakened form is >> The Master Sword which itself is superior to the Four Sword and by extension Vaati empowered by 99.9% of the Light Force, plus there's no actual proof it's the source of her power. The Master Sword also needs it justification for being superior to Hylia because it can open Gates of Time removed because not only does the scaling not work given Hylia=Demise > The Imprisoned, but also it is never stated or even implied a power comparable or superior to Hylia is needed to open the gates, seems like we just made it up. Same with it's justification for being able to harm and kill Demise since it can't even hope to do the same to his weaker form, as a result Link will need a new key for the end of Skyward Sword where he was able to defeat Demise. Granted the ratings for these characters could change in the future (Seems like Demise really did create that dimension he fights Link in, but I have to look more into it first before we try whipping out any kinda star level scaling for these guys) but for tier 6 suites them just fine.

Course we could just scale the Master Sword to the Lokomo Sword and bump all these characters from Island and Large Island level to Large Country and Continent level but I ain't pushing my luck for that lmao.
 
So quick question, is there a reason why MC Link's profile has 6-C "with the Four Sword" while other Links have just 6-C? They don't say 6-C with "insert weapon". Hell FC Link wields the same weapon and doesn't have that on his profile.
 
It should just be 6-C, but MC Link's profile (Like many others) is utter shit and needs a major revision.

But at least his profile isn't the tragedy that is Four Swords Link, I cannot even begin to understand what is even going on with that one.
 
Dust_Collector said:
It should just be 6-C, but MC Link's profile (Like many others) is utter shit and needs a major revision.

But at least his profile isn't the tragedy that is Four Swords Link, I cannot even begin to understand what is even going on with that one.
Click to expand...
What's wrong with it?
 
Besides the usual trappings of missing stuff and lacking scans, for some reason Four Swords Link has two keys for the original gba version of Four Swords and the anniversary version of Four Swords that was released on the dsi. The only difference between the two versions is some extra bonus content in the latter that has no impact on story whatsoever, especially in regards how Link(s) scale to Vaati who for some reason is treated as having somehow reverted back to his base from in the GBA version (He didn't). Also for some reason the profile is listed under the child timeline despite happening before the timeline split in OOT.

The only good thing about the profile is that it ain't as bad as it used to be, the anniversary key used to scale them to the complete Triforce on the basis that the anniversary version gave them the full Triforce (It didn't lmao), Vaati even had an entire key for this where he also scaled to the Triforce.
 
Yeah some of the profiles did look bad. I managed to clean them up in terms of grammar and other things like a month ago, but I haven't touched the actual missing stuff. Are you planning on doing the revision for it after your other one for the scaling?
 
Ghirahim has a lot more attacks than I thought he did. Got 22 gifs for his notable attacks section from his first two boss fights, think his final fight will bump that into the thirties easily. Did not know the man will pimp slap you if you don't attack him in the first fight.

Was gonna post my above planned CRT tomorrow but since I'm at the very last stretch of Skyward Sword (About to get the verses to the heroes song, games not as long as I remembered) I think I might wait until later in the week to do since I'm super close to seeing how legit that statement about Demise creating that dimension is although I bet the japanese version of that statement when I have it translated will mention nothing about the space being made by him lmao.
 
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