Legend of Zelda General Discussion Thread

[Chariot190]

Also isn't true.

We scale FSA Ganon below Twinrova in OOT. Though he's a different Ganon, but that jut proves the issue. The Oracle Twin is not the OOT Twin.

And plus, why? Twinrova ain't fodder, she's the semi-final boss. She's literally stronger than things on par or stronger than base beast Ganon in EoW.

If, for example, we take EoW Volvagia to be the OOT one (We've only ever known that one Volvagia, and even the OOT Volvagia was it being revived), this would make Volvagia equal to, or stronger than Beast Ganon without the ToP. And OOT Twin > Volvagia (By quite a bit, each medallion is a power boost).

So just saying Twin is always weaker than Ganon doesn't quite check out. Like it COULD be the case but what we see makes it fucky.

Isn’t that version of Ganon fearless cause he always used the ToP to transform into beast form? So it’s kinda weird he was summoned that one time in the Oracle games as beast Ganon cause he didn’t have it, unlike ALBW where he was summoned with it. You’d think he be brought back as Ganondorf instead.

It's weird. FSA doesn't have the ToP either. And EoW super omega 100% doesn't have it as a plot point. The ToP changes Ganon into Beast, usually, but it just seems to become his default state in the downfall timeline due to being omega corrupted and other such slop.

 

[Lou_change]

I mean link beat ganon with what were presumably weaker versions of the weapons of might then what zelda had when fighting Volvagia

 

[Chariot190]

I mean link beat ganon with what were presumably weaker versions of the weapons of might then what zelda had when fighting Volvagia

Actually, don't they flatout say Link's weapons got nerfed? Though by that point they're probably stronger.

Regardless, we don't want to work on presumptions.
EoW Ganon lacks the ToP (Thus he doesn't scale to most relevant scaling). Volvagia is not only a boss after EoW Ganon, but actually does decent scaling.

EoW Ganon is on par at worst really, best we can say given he's a preceeding boss. But if that's the case, we can't assume he scales above OOT Twinrova, who eclipses Volvagia, because he's stronger than a completely different Twinrova.

 

[Dust_Collector]

I think EOW Ganon being relative to Volvagia could be fine, but I agree that Twinrova scaling for him is a no-go

 

[Chariot190]

I mean, the problem is less Ganon scaling to Volvagia. If we scale EoW Volvagia to OOT Volvagia based on the premise it's an echo of him, Ganon scaling doesn't matter anymore, end game would just scale off Volvagia instead.

Though the problem then becomes, what exactly do we rate Oracle Ganon. Twinrova scaling is bust, not even the same one, and EoW Ganon doesn't have much for feats to crossscale.

EoW ends up fine, Oracle in turn becomes the problem we need to solve eventually.



The good thing that comes from ToPless Ganon being kinda mid is that we can basically scale EoW Beamos to every relevant game almost as ganon obviously scales off a weaker echo of himself. Though I'm not sure they particularly need the scaling, it's still something, might enable earlier scaling giving benefits to some bosses.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Also isn't true.

We scale FSA Ganon below Twinrova in OOT. Though he's a different Ganon, but that jut proves the issue. The Oracle Twin is not the OOT Twin.

And plus, why? Twinrova ain't fodder, she's the semi-final boss. She's literally stronger than things on par or stronger than base beast Ganon in EoW.

If, for example, we take EoW Volvagia to be the OOT one (We've only ever known that one Volvagia, and even the OOT Volvagia was it being revived), this would make Volvagia equal to, or stronger than Beast Ganon without the ToP. And OOT Twin > Volvagia (By quite a bit, each medallion is a power boost).

So just saying Twin is always weaker than Ganon doesn't quite check out. Like it COULD be the case but what we see makes it fucky.

It's weird. FSA doesn't have the ToP either. And EoW super omega 100% doesn't have it as a plot point. The ToP changes Ganon into Beast, usually, but it just seems to become his default state in the downfall timeline due to being omega corrupted and other such slop.

Ganon had the Triforce of Power while in his Ganon state in OoT. Of course he'd be leaps and bounds ahead.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Onox has that temple sinking feat, if scaling for Oracles Nando is too iffy we can at least realiably scale him above that

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Onox has that temple sinking feat, if scaling for Oracles Nando is too iffy we can at least realiably scale him above that

Has that even been calced?

 

[Chariot190]

Ganon had the Triforce of Power while in his Ganon state in OoT. Of course he'd be leaps and bounds ahead.

Yeah?

What?

You know EoW Ganon is weaker than the Triforce of Power right? As in, Oracle and EoW Ganon don't scale to OOT Endgame Ganon? Like, at all, they don't even scale to Gerudo ToP Ganon.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation or you own point.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Yeah?

What?

You know EoW Ganon is weaker than the Triforce of Power right? As in, Oracle and EoW Ganon don't scale to OOT Endgame Ganon? Like, at all, they don't even scale to Gerudo ToP Ganon.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation or you own point.

If you have been paying attention, Ganon has Keys both with and without the Triforce of Power. Ganon has the Triforce of Power in OoT. Therefore it isn't a wonder why he's so much stronger than the other bosses.

 

[Chariot190]

Onox has that temple sinking feat, if scaling for Oracles Nando is too iffy we can at least realiably scale him above that

I think we can scale Oracle Ganon to EoW Ganon. And vice versa, whoever ends up with the better feat/scaling, they're literally the same thing except one has smooth brain.

There's a handful of Oracle feats I wanna calc, but GBC makes calcing them hard because the scale is all ****** up.
I did figure out a way to calc the volcano bomb chain feat without relying on pixel scaling or the scale of the map being abstracted involving seismic shit with help from Armor given I've discussed some niche Zelda feats with him before.

There's also always just scaling them off human Gerudo who has that storm feat, which some jap yap credits to him so we can actually scale him to it without just guessing he made it, that's probably ok.

 

[Chariot190]

If you have been paying attention, Ganon has Keys both with and without the Triforce of Power. Ganon has the Triforce of Power in OoT. Therefore it isn't a wonder why he's so much stronger than the other bosses.

I'm going to assume you're trolling and ignore you. There's no way you're this out of loop with the convo.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I'm going to assume you're trolling and ignore you. There's no way you're this out of loop with the convo.

Literally all you've been doing is dismissing shit for reasons that literally don't exist. In fact nobody's making a profile on an Echo of Ganon to begin with.

 

[Dalesean027]

Literally all you've been doing is dismissing shit for reasons that literally don't exist. In fact nobody's making a profile on an Echo of Ganon to begin with.

What are YOU on about rn man you've been off topic saying a whole lot of nothing this entire time, and no one is indexing EoW? What? Did you bump your head? Cause no way you seem ti have forgotten everything we've been over with your ass a few dozen times now

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

What are YOU on about rn man you've been off topic saying a whole lot of nothing this entire time, and no one is indexing EoW? What? Did you bump your head? Cause no way you seem ti have forgotten everything we've been over with your ass a few dozen times now

It's coming back to me why I don't make Zelda profiles anymore.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Is bro arguing with his shampoo bottles what is going on?

 

[Chariot190]

Literally all you've been doing is dismissing shit for reasons that literally don't exist. In fact nobody's making a profile on an Echo of Ganon to begin with.

Ok? Scaling.

EoW Zelda scales to Echo Ganon, and what Echo Ganon scales to can effect her. Oracle Ganon scales. Feats in EoW up to a point can scale to other games and keys via Echo Ganon (Such as OOT Ganon with the ToP). Feats from other games can scale to EoW Zelda and Link through Echo Ganon. Etc.

I don't even got a proper reply to this, scaling is a very important facet of indexing shit

 

[Nierre]

how will we index Zelda with the Sword of Might? Will she scale to Link with it? Will it be two different keys or will it be "higher with Sword of Might"

 

[Chariot190]

how will we index Zelda with the Sword of Might? Will she scale to Link with it? Will it be two different keys or will it be "higher with Sword of Might"

Probably off its own feats till it gets upgraded in game given it took a stat nerf when she first gained it compared to when Link had it, though eventually it gets upgraded to where she's equal or surpasses Link (at the start of the game) with it.

She's obviously higher with it. But it's less she scales to Link, and more Link scales to her. The Sword of Might has a few neat statements, like containing more power than some pretty huge rifts, which might be calculatable though it'd be complex, but the main scaling is just gonna be scaling to feats and scaling she herself has, like to Volvagia ig if we're going through with that or the yeti dude and etc.

Link is obviously more physically capable, but she gains his abilities so it'd probably just be "higher".

 

[Nierre]

Probably off its own feats till it gets upgraded in game given it took a stat nerf when she first gained it compared to when Link had it, though eventually it gets upgraded to where she's equal or surpasses Link (at the start of the game) with it.

Does the game force you to upgrade the sword or is that optional?

 

[Chariot190]

Does the game force you to upgrade the sword or is that optional?

Uh, fruget. I need to check something for a calc later so I'll just check then.

Maybe see if I can find an official guide while I'm at it.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

The game implies Lv. 2 on everything was what the sword was at when Link used it.

 

[Nierre]

The game implies Lv. 2 on everything was what the sword was at when Link used it.

when/how did they imply that?

 

[Dalesean027]

when/how did they imply that?

Blade beam I'm guessing

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

when/how did they imply that?

The guy that made it didn't develop anything higher than Lv. 2 before Link went to the dungeon, and the equipment all has its Lv. 2 appearance in Link's inventory.

 

[Lou_change]

Literally all you've been doing is dismissing shit for reasons that literally don't exist. In fact nobody's making a profile on an Echo of Ganon to begin with.

The problem is the beast ganon key is bad because the original twinrova we are using for scaling died and can't actually be the same as the one who appeared in oracles later on to resurrect beast ganon which is what the echo of ganon presumably scales to along with Zelda and Null.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Should Lana and Zelda have Tier 2 postgame Keys for Hyrule Warriors since they apparently helped fight Full Triforce Hyrule Warriors Ganon?

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

It saddens me that nobody plays Hyrule Warriors just from the fact that it started on the Wii U. It's a really fun game even outside of the Definitive Edition, and at the time it was pretty much celebrated as the next step in Zelda debating.

I made so many thirst posts for Impa on Miiverse.

 

[Chariot190]

It saddens me that nobody plays Hyrule Warriors just from the fact that it started on the Wii U. It's a really fun game even outside of the Definitive Edition,

Why assume anything. I put hundreds of hours into the Wii U one, less so for Switch but I own it.

Honestly pretty sure everyone's played it, it's one of the better Warrior titles.

and at the time it was pretty much celebrated as the next step in Zelda debating.

Bro, no it wasn't. Back then the entire Zelda powerscaling community consisted of like 3 dudes on Narutoforums with the verse being held up by ChaosTheory123, upon which the focus was mostly getting Zelda out of 8-C hell. Shoutouts to that mf btw, calcs kinda outdated af but like, he built the foundation that VSBW straight up stole.

I made so many thirst posts for Impa on Miiverse.

I will allow this begrudgingly.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Why assume anything. I put hundreds of hours into the Wii U one, less so for Switch but I own it.

Honestly pretty sure everyone's played it, it's one of the better Warrior titles.

Bro, no it wasn't. Back then the entire Zelda powerscaling community consisted of like 3 dudes on Narutoforums with the verse being held up by ChaosTheory123, upon which the focus was mostly getting Zelda out of 8-C hell. Shoutouts to that mf btw, calcs kinda outdated af but like, he built the foundation that VSBW straight up stole.

I will allow this begrudgingly.

Huh. I had no way of knowing this, I kinda assumed you were one of the people who didn't like it.

 

[Chariot190]

Huh. I had no way of knowing this, I kinda assumed you were one of the people who didn't like it.

That's why you don't assume, I've played every official Zelda at some point, even the crossbow training one

I like most to varying degrees, even the worst are fine. Obviously I prefer like, the actual titles for the most part but HW is still a decently fun timesink.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

That's why you don't assume, I've played every official Zelda at some point, even the crossbow training one

I like most to varying degrees, even the worst are fine. Obviously I prefer like, the actual titles for the most part but HW is still a decently fun timesink.

Another day, another walk on the eggshells to avoid pissing you off.

You haven’t exactly given me much reason to think otherwise.

 

[Chariot190]

Another day, another walk on the eggshells to avoid pissing you off.

Man why are you like this? Just stop yapping then.

You haven’t exactly given me much reason to think otherwise.

Why should I? Ignoring the fact I've voiced before it's a decent game, it isn't on me to give you a list of everything I like. Just don't assume people hate shit for some reason? Like why is that the DEFAULT assumption

 

[DaReaperMan]

Man why are you like this? Just stop yapping then.

Why should I? Ignoring the fact I've voiced before it's a decent game, it isn't on me to give you a list of everything I like. Just don't assume people hate shit for some reason? Like why is that the DEFAULT assumption

Ganondorf (Hyrule Warriors)

Ganondorf (ガノンドロフ, Ganondorofu) is a playable character and the true main antagonist in Hyrule Warriors and the major antagonist of the Legend of Zelda series. Born from the Gerudo Tribe, the malice of an ancient demon incarnate, Ganondorf sought the omniscient Triforce to grant his wish of...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Given a wee bit of guidance I should be able to remake the only profile I care about from Warriors.

 

[Lou_change]

Another day, another walk on the eggshells to avoid pissing you off.

Yet somehow you're the only one who upsets him.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Hm, so everyone DOES hate Hyrule Warriors. I won’t be able to rely on this group, then.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Hm, so everyone DOES hate Hyrule Warriors. I won’t be able to rely on this group, then.

You dare question Settra the Imperishable, Great King, Khemrikhara, The Great King of Nehekhara, King of Kings, Opener of the Way, Wielder of the Divine Flame, Punisher of Nomads, The Great Unifier, Commander of the Golden Legion, Sacred of Appearance, Bringer of Light, Father of Hawks, Builder of Cities, Protector of the Two Worlds, Keeper of the Hours, Chosen of Ptra, High Steward of the Horizon, Sailor of the Great Vitae, Sentinel of the Two Realms, The Undisputed, Begetter of the Begat, Scourge of the Faithless, Carrion-feeder, First of the Charnel Valley, Rider of the Sacred Chariot, Vanquisher of Vermin, Champion of the Death Arena, Mighty Lion of the Infinite Desert, Emperor of the Shifting Sands, He Who Holds The Sceptre, Great Hawk Of The Heavens, Arch-Sultan of Atalan, Waker of the Hierotitan, Monarch of the Sky, Majestic Emperor of the Shifting Sands, Champion of the Desert Gods, Breaker of the Ogre Clans, Builder of the Great Pyramid, Terror of the Living, Master of the Never-Ending Horizon, Master of the Necropolises, Taker of Souls, Tyrant to the Foolish, Bearer of Ptra's Holy Blade, Scion of Usirian, Scion of Nehek, The Great, Chaser of Nightmares, Keeper of the Royal Herat, Founder of the Mortuary Cult, Banisher of the Grand Hierophant, High Lord Admiral of the Deathfleets, Guardian of the Charnal Pass, Tamer of the Liche King, Unliving Jackal Lord, Dismisser of the Warrior Queen, Charioteer of the Gods, He Who Does Not Serve, Slayer off Reddittras, Scarab Purger, Favoured of Usirian, Player of the Great Game, Liberator of Life, Lord Sand, Wrangler of Scorpions, Emperor of the Dunes, Eternal Sovereign of Khemri's Legions, Seneschal of the Great Sandy Desert, Curserer of the Living, Regent of the Eastern Mountains, Warden of the Eternal Necropolis, Herald of all Heralds, Caller of the Bitter Wind, God-Tamer, Master of the Mortis River, Guardian of the Dead, Great Keeper of the Obelisks, Deacon of the Ash River, Belated of Wakers, General of the Mighty Frame, Summoner of Sandstorms, Master of all Necrotects, Prince of Dust, Tyrant of Araby, Purger of the Greenskin Breathers, Killer of the False God's Champions, Tyrant of the Gold Dunes, Golden Bone Lord, Avenger of the Dead, Carrion Master, Eternal Warden of Nehek's Lands, Breaker of Djaf's Bonds

 

[Lou_change]

Hm, so everyone DOES hate Hyrule Warriors. I won’t be able to rely on this group, then.

Never played the original nor do I particularly feel like going out of my way to play or learn about it.

 

[Chariot190]

Ganondorf (Hyrule Warriors)

Ganondorf (ガノンドロフ, Ganondorofu) is a playable character and the true main antagonist in Hyrule Warriors and the major antagonist of the Legend of Zelda series. Born from the Gerudo Tribe, the malice of an ancient demon incarnate, Ganondorf sought the omniscient Triforce to grant his wish of...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Given a wee bit of guidance I should be able to remake the only profile I care about from Warriors.

Jesus that profile is kinda stinky.

everyone hates-

Man this is why you're bullied. Like just stop yapping and actively trying to step on people's toes.

 

[Chariot190]

Gonna post some MM speed stuff today.
Atm just trying to figure out what I should use for Zora Link's arm arc given it's bent.

Half are done, one is about 6cish, which really is all that's needed but I'd prefer doing all forms just to have them calced even if they all scale to the same shit.