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Legend of Zelda General Discussion Thread

You sure? Can I see the original text then?
Just look up an OOT japanese text dump. Not hard to find, literally just type "Zelda oot text dump japanese".
But they don't say chaos either.

Majora termina feats imo don't cut it, mostly because it's contradicted to hell and back by things prior, and it's from the encyclopedia, something that by default should be taken with a grain of salt by the admission of the dudes who wrote that shit. it's also objectively bad

The Majora pocket dimension being called a reality means nothing, it's a subspace, it's tier 4 tho due to the sun but it aint universal, nothing even implicates that.

Majora's corruption warping the universe is more of a range feat (the nintendo power guide one), the warping that it's talking about is negligible in the grand scheme of things and doesn't qualify for anything beyond range by site standards.

Koholinht island is an alt world and he do scale to it imo, but it aint uni in scale, like, objectively not a full blown universe, idk how they even got to that conclusion.

Demise creation feat has been talked about in this very thread, the japanese text says he rules over it with his magical power, but doesn't specify if he created it, though, even if he did, it'd be tier 4-C at best, not uni.

The zant shit is dumb, for a doc that uses a bunch of english guides, the fact it's arguing that zant is making those locations even though the tp guide flat out says he isnt and is teleporting Link to them is bruh. Like yeah, there's some weird shit at play, but that's more on the developers not really thinking nerds on the internet 15 years later will be bitching about it, the intent is he's teleporting and they say he's teleporting in the guide. Like this one aint even up for debate.

Zant merging the two realms is also out of context, when it says that, it's talking about how he casts the light world in twilght, aka, youre at best looking at country level AOE hax, not even close to uni AP.
And for argument's sake, let's say he actually is merging them, it would be an overtime feat given it's, well, taking him a longass time to do it, bit by bit.

The "vaati never shown illusion/bfr on that scale before" is dumb as shit, he also never showed uni level creation before? Why's one ok and not the other? The fact he actually does have illusions and BFR is already a bit of a red flag. The justification for why it must be that is also quite bad, it's taking disconnected claims and trying to argue it must be due to power when vaati talking about his power is disconnected from the area being changed.

The ocean king feat is also not uni, in fact, last I checked it's actually only continental as his world is only that of the ocean. So yes, while he might have created a dimension with its own timeflow, it's only continental in size. Aka, not 3-A to low 2-C.

Majora manga feat do be legit, but it's also a manga feat, we don't use those.

Din's fire uses power granted by Din, but it ain't the full brunt of her power, that much is obvious as all hell. It's just a blessing. I shouldn't even have to elaborate why it ain't her full power.

Link quite literally dies to the moon crashing, the giant wall of flames kill his ass. There is no taken out of context here, it's a critical part of the game. There's a good reason why "you've met with a terrible fate" is said lad.

The rest isn't worth pointing out.

But I will say, warping Lorule, warping the Sacred Realm, and the bunch of 3-A full triforce stuff do be legit and in fact is 3-A imo. But we already accept that and rate it as 3-A and also rate Ganon, who consolidated its power, as 3-A. And the 2-B golden goddesses we also accept and list.

Like the only thing that doc accomplishes, is maybe a Majora upgrade, at best, being generous (but that's sus for other reasons).
The rest is just wanking some pocket dimension feats to 3-A, including some we explicitly know aren't 3-A, like the ocean king, or Zant's shit.
And then listing off Uni feats we actually do use, which like, to be fair that's ok, but it only applies to one character and doesn't scale to the wider verse as a whole.
 
Just look up an OOT japanese text dump. Not hard to find, literally just type "Zelda oot text dump japanese".
But they don't say chaos either.

Majora termina feats imo don't cut it, mostly because it's contradicted to hell and back by things prior, and it's from the encyclopedia, something that by default should be taken with a grain of salt by the admission of the dudes who wrote that shit. it's also objectively bad

The Majora pocket dimension being called a reality means nothing, it's a subspace, it's tier 4 tho due to the sun but it aint universal, nothing even implicates that.

Majora's corruption warping the universe is more of a range feat (the nintendo power guide one), the warping that it's talking about is negligible in the grand scheme of things and doesn't qualify for anything beyond range by site standards.

Koholinht island is an alt world and he do scale to it imo, but it aint uni in scale, like, objectively not a full blown universe, idk how they even got to that conclusion.

Demise creation feat has been talked about in this very thread, the japanese text says he rules over it with his magical power, but doesn't specify if he created it, though, even if he did, it'd be tier 4-C at best, not uni.

The zant shit is dumb, for a doc that uses a bunch of english guides, the fact it's arguing that zant is making those locations even though the tp guide flat out says he isnt and is teleporting Link to them is bruh. Like yeah, there's some weird shit at play, but that's more on the developers not really thinking nerds on the internet 15 years later will be bitching about it, the intent is he's teleporting and they say he's teleporting in the guide. Like this one aint even up for debate.

Zant merging the two realms is also out of context, when it says that, it's talking about how he casts the light world in twilght, aka, youre at best looking at country level AOE hax, not even close to uni AP.
And for argument's sake, let's say he actually is merging them, it would be an overtime feat given it's, well, taking him a longass time to do it, bit by bit.

The "vaati never shown illusion/bfr on that scale before" is dumb as shit, he also never showed uni level creation before? Why's one ok and not the other? The fact he actually does have illusions and BFR is already a bit of a red flag. The justification for why it must be that is also quite bad, it's taking disconnected claims and trying to argue it must be due to power when vaati talking about his power is disconnected from the area being changed.

The ocean king feat is also not uni, in fact, last I checked it's actually only continental as his world is only that of the ocean. So yes, while he might have created a dimension with its own timeflow, it's only continental in size. Aka, not 3-A to low 2-C.

Majora manga feat do be legit, but it's also a manga feat, we don't use those.

Din's fire uses power granted by Din, but it ain't the full brunt of her power, that much is obvious as all hell. It's just a blessing. I shouldn't even have to elaborate why it ain't her full power.

Link quite literally dies to the moon crashing, the giant wall of flames kill his ass. There is no taken out of context here, it's a critical part of the game. There's a good reason why "you've met with a terrible fate" is said lad.

The rest isn't worth pointing out.

But I will say, warping Lorule, warping the Sacred Realm, and the bunch of 3-A full triforce stuff do be legit and in fact is 3-A imo. But we already accept that and rate it as 3-A and also rate Ganon, who consolidated its power, as 3-A. And the 2-B golden goddesses we also accept and list.

Like the only thing that doc accomplishes, is maybe a Majora upgrade, at best, being generous (but that's sus for other reasons).
The rest is just wanking some pocket dimension feats to 3-A, including some we explicitly know aren't 3-A, like the ocean king, or Zant's shit.
And then listing off Uni feats we actually do use, which like, to be fair that's ok, but it only applies to one character and doesn't scale to the wider verse as a whole.
Why is the manga not allowed to be used?
 
Why is the manga not allowed to be used?
The manga's very blatantly it's own thing with too many differences when compared to the games that it'd be really stupid for to use them in conjunction with one another. As an example the OOT adaption has Sheik frequently speaking to Ganondorf and tricking him into thinking she's on his side, and Volvagia was a baby dragon that Link met and befriended as a child before falling under Ganondorfs control, while in the actual game Shiek and Ganon never interact until she reveals that she's actually Zelda and Volvagia was an ancient dragon that was killed long before Link was even born and was resurrected during the 7 years Link was sealed away in the sacred realm so unlike the manga their one and only interaction is just fighting to the death within the fire temple.

And those are just 2 examples from just one of the adapted storylines from the manga.
 
Anyone watch the series Hero’s Purpose by MajorLink? It’s honestly a fantastic piece of work that I wish was canon. Episode 5 dropped yesterday and it was so amazing. Check it out if you haven’t yet.

 
So I was rewatching some TP playthroughs and I noticed something. Why does Midna have Unknown LS in her imp form? She’s shown lifting many things such as a giant volcanic boulder or part of the Eldin Bridge. Even if that’s not calc’d she still halted Dark Beast Ganon, who has Class M LS on his profile, and threw him to the side. So she should at least scale there.
 
Yeah no idea why her LS is unknown, like you mentioned she's got stuff to scale from. Honestly Midna's profile overall (Like a lot of the other profiles in the series) is pretty bad atm, she needs a proper rework.
 
Yeah no idea why her LS is unknown, like you mentioned she's got stuff to scale from. Honestly Midna's profile overall (Like a lot of the other profiles in the series) is pretty bad atm, she needs a proper rework.
Do you have a list of ones that need to be reworked?

Also is the justification in AP for her true form correct? Cause it was mentioned that only the true ruler could break it so it’s not a matter of strength. Or am I wrong?
 
Do you have a list of ones that need to be reworked?
Nah, I just have a general idea of who needs to be reworked and much they need to be reworked. Top priority for me personally are the Links and major villains (Finished up ALTTP Link and Shadow Nightmares in my sandboxes, wanna tackle the Four Swords trilogy characters like their versions of Link as well as Vaati and FSA Ganon next), but overall I think most of the profiles for Zelda need updating in one way or another since they're all pretty old (In fact I'm sure 60% or more of the profiles are just ripped from the OBD with minor changes).
 
zonai charge
ezgif-2-199137e671.gif

it all comes together
 
So from this trailer, we have Fusionism, Underground Mobility, and Time Manipulation for Link via his new hand. I wonder what other stuff he’s now capable of doing.
I wonder if it also qualifies for Limited Size Manipulation. You can tell that some things are resized when made into weapons, but that may be just game mechanics.
 
What is a zonai even
An ancient tribe referenced in Botw, but never seen, claimed to have existed long ago but have gone extinct.

They're mentioned in passing but you could honestly go the whole game without knowing they existed. But a lot of the temple structures were (fan)theorized to be made from them and the temple and structures found in the jungle province is from explicitly, as well as the barbarian armor set.

It seems that Nintendo was cooking because all the robotic shit, the green energy, etc in TotK is basically hard confirmed to be zonai shit.
 
Alright. Decided to do a little revamp for Midna's profile cause why not. I removed her true form cause she never fought in it and her feat of breaking the mirror seems less like AP and more of her being the true ruler of the twili. I also added some abilities to her Imp form and made it unknown in AP cause I don't think we ever saw her fight without the Fused Shadow, though I might be wrong. Her LS for her imp form is Class M cause she practically stopped Dark Beast Ganon's charge multiple times and threw him to the side.

Anyway, tell me what you guys think.

 
and her feat of breaking the mirror seems less like AP and more of her being the true ruler of the twili.
This is true. They make it abundantly clear it's a hax thing.
I also added some abilities to her Imp form and made it unknown in AP cause I don't think we ever saw her fight without the Fused Shadow
Well, she did break a chain, that's at least 9-C, but that definitely isn't her peak. Could probably still keep it at Unknown, but make mention that she casually broke a chain.
Her LS for her imp form is Class M cause she practically stopped Dark Beast Ganon's charge multiple times and threw him to the side.
Class M is for WW, Early OOT and other such Ganons. TP Ganon is this key
"Class E (Physically stronger than the Hero of Time who has the power of the Golden Gauntlets, and the Triforce of Power should grant him greater physical strength than The Four Giants), Class Z via Telekinesis (Was able to causally keep his castle and a small island floating in the air, capable of stopping the entire planets rotation)"
so yeah Midna is packing some ludicrous LS if you actually scale her to him
 
This is true. They make it abundantly clear it's a hax thing.

Well, she did break a chain, that's at least 9-C, but that definitely isn't her peak. Could probably still keep it at Unknown, but make mention that she casually broke a chain.

Class M is for WW, Early OOT and other such Ganons. TP Ganon is this key
"Class E (Physically stronger than the Hero of Time who has the power of the Golden Gauntlets, and the Triforce of Power should grant him greater physical strength than The Four Giants), Class Z via Telekinesis (Was able to causally keep his castle and a small island floating in the air, capable of stopping the entire planets rotation)"
so yeah Midna is packing some ludicrous LS if you actually scale her to him

Ah I see. I just saw higher as Dark Beast Ganon and thought that was the same for all iterations. Anyway, I’ll take your suggestions into account.
 
This is true. They make it abundantly clear it's a hax thing.

Well, she did break a chain, that's at least 9-C, but that definitely isn't her peak. Could probably still keep it at Unknown, but make mention that she casually broke a chain.

Class M is for WW, Early OOT and other such Ganons. TP Ganon is this key
"Class E (Physically stronger than the Hero of Time who has the power of the Golden Gauntlets, and the Triforce of Power should grant him greater physical strength than The Four Giants), Class Z via Telekinesis (Was able to causally keep his castle and a small island floating in the air, capable of stopping the entire planets rotation)"
so yeah Midna is packing some ludicrous LS if you actually scale her to him
Forgive my asking, but why is this Ganon the same as those Ganons?

Wasn't OoT's slain at the end of 1 of OoT's timelines?
Also, when did he stop the planet's rotation?
 
Forgive my asking, but why is this Ganon the same as those Ganons?

Wasn't OoT's slain at the end of 1 of OoT's timelines?
Also, when did he stop the planet's rotation?
Because he's literally the same exact Ganon? Unlike Link, Ganon is almost always the same exact character, no reincarnation involved, he's just old as **** in some games. Though FSA Ganon is a different reincarnation, every other time it's the same character.

In OOT there's 3 endings.
Ending 1, Ganon gets sealed away, Link ***** off (back to the past), Ganon breaks free who knows how long later, but there's no hero to stop him, so the Gods flood the land and seal Hyrule under the ocean, that leads to Wind Waker.

Ending 2, where Ganon wins and kills Link, that leads to Sealing War and Downfall timeline (AlttP, Zelda 1 & 2).

Then there's the ending where Link goes back in time, and warns the king of Ganon, they execute Ganon, but it fails, and that leads to TP (This one).

Ganon doesn't die in a single ending of OOT. They all lead to different timelines with the same Ganon (meaning all but one Ganon, is OOT Ganon in different futures). In this case, Ganon survived being executed because he manifested the Triforce of Power, granting him immortality or some shit, which is what that key is for, Ganon with the ToP.

Idk, I'm assuming it's referencing one of the times he made an endless night or whatever.
 
Because he's literally the same exact Ganon? Unlike Link, Ganon is almost always the same exact character, no reincarnation involved, he's just old as **** in some games. Though FSA Ganon is a different reincarnation, every other time it's the same character.
You say "almost", implying there's exceptions. While the following parts of your post assure me the Ganons of OoT, WW, & TP are the same Ganon.... Which Ganon(s) is/are the exception(s) implied by your use of "almost"?
Nonetheless, thank you for your thorough answers.
In OOT there's 3 endings.
Ending 1, Ganon gets sealed away, Link ***** off (back to the past), Ganon breaks free who knows how long later, but there's no hero to stop him, so the Gods flood the land and seal Hyrule under the ocean, that leads to Wind Waker.

Ending 2, where Ganon wins and kills Link, that leads to Sealing War and Downfall timeline (AlttP, Zelda 1 & 2).

Then there's the ending where Link goes back in time, and warns the king of Ganon, they execute Ganon, but it fails, and that leads to TP (This one).

Ganon doesn't die in a single ending of OOT. They all lead to different timelines with the same Ganon (meaning all but one Ganon, is OOT Ganon in different futures). In this case, Ganon survived being executed because he manifested the Triforce of Power, granting him immortality or some shit, which is what that key is for, Ganon with the ToP.
This part is concerning:
Idk, I'm assuming it's referencing one of the times he made an endless night or whatever.
Anyone know what the exact basis is?
 
You say "almost", implying there's exceptions. While the following parts of your post assure me the Ganons of OoT, WW, & TP are the same Ganon.... Which Ganon(s) is/are the exception(s) implied by your use of "almost"?
Every Ganon is the same character, the only exception is FSA (Four Sword Adventures), who just so happens to be a DIFFERENT Gerudo named Ganon, who became a demon king, but FSA takes place after TP, where Ganon actually does die at the very end (Probably, popular theory dictates ToTK Ganon is TP Ganon but who knows).
Basically, FSA Ganon is just a reincarnation of Ganon after he died, in the same way OOT Link is the reincarnation of Skyward Link, as Ganon, much like Link, are in an endless cycle of rebirth or whatever due to Demise being a bitch and cursing the hero or whatever with his own curse.
And you could maybe include the Oracle Games? But that's the main Ganon still, they just tried to revive him, and ****** it up so instead of being intelligent, he's mindless.

Besides that every Ganon is just the exact same dude (OOT, WW, TP, AlttP, Zelda 1, Zelda 2 are the same individual character, TP and WW Ganon also like to talk about OOT events as well. FSA is a new reincarnation and Oracle is the same Ganon as the main one, but no longer intelligent. there's also AlbW, but Ganon gets revived as usual, and then Yuga fuses with him so he's only onscreen for like five seconds, but the Ganon he fused with is the main Ganon as well).

BOTW is up in the air, we don't know what the **** is up with TOTK Ganon, he's PROBABLY the same Ganon, but BOTW is so much further ahead it's hard to tell, as the previous Ganon attack took place 10,000 years before the start of the game, and that attack takes place after a previous attack that had the shiekah make ******* gundams and metal gears to combat him, and THAT attack takes place after every other game. Meaning the Ganon we see in ToTK is tens of ******* thousands of years old easy, and we know that Ganon was a Gerudo and that because he hasn't died, there hasn't been a single new male Gerudo born in basically millennia.

It's obvious ya don't know much about Zelda, but that ain't a bad thing.
I'd recommend playing Zelda OOT on the 3DS to start, if you like that, then WW and TP are good follow up games, I'd recommend MM but that game is much harder and involves micromanagement of time MM is my favorite one thou
BOTW is good but it's open world and doesn't convey the same formula as the 3D ones, plus TotK is out soon which is probably just gonna be better BOTW, and if you played BOTW right now you'd likely get burnt out before TotK.

In terms of 2D, I'd say start with AlbW, as AlttP is quite a bit harder and the rest are more archaic, even if good, if you like Albw, you'd probably enjoy the rest though.
Anyone know what the exact basis is?
I'm certain that's what it's talking about, as we use to have Ganon as like 5-A or some shit due to it. But I think we ditched that and just consider it magical hax stuff (HH calls it a type of curse). Because if it ain't that, then **** if I know, I might not have everything memorized but I have played every game, and nothing even comes close to that. But I'd ask DustCollector, he did the Ganon overhaul.
Calamity Ganon moves the moon in BOTW but we don't use that for some reason
 
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Every Ganon is the same character, the only exception is FSA (Four Sword Adventures), who just so happens to be a DIFFERENT Gerudo named Ganon, who became a demon king, but FSA takes place after TP, where Ganon actually does die at the very end (Probably, popular theory dictates ToTK Ganon is TP Ganon but who knows).
Basically, FSA Ganon is just a reincarnation of Ganon after he died, in the same way OOT Link is the reincarnation of Skyward Link, as Ganon, much like Link, are in an endless cycle of rebirth or whatever due to Demise being a bitch and cursing the hero or whatever with his own curse.
And you could maybe include the Oracle Games? But that's the main Ganon still, they just tried to revive him, and ****** it up so instead of being intelligent, he's mindless.

Besides that every Ganon is just the exact same dude (OOT, WW, TP, AlttP, Zelda 1, Zelda 2 are the same individual character, TP and WW Ganon also like to talk about OOT events as well. FSA is a new reincarnation and Oracle is the same Ganon as the main one, but no longer intelligent. there's also AlbW, but Ganon gets revived as usual, and then Yuga fuses with him so he's only onscreen for like five seconds, but the Ganon he fused with is the main Ganon as well).

BOTW is up in the air, we don't know what the **** is up with TOTK Ganon, he's PROBABLY the same Ganon, but BOTW is so much further ahead it's hard to tell, as the previous Ganon attack took place 10,000 years before the start of the game, and that attack takes place after a previous attack that had the shiekah make ******* gundams and metal gears to combat him, and THAT attack takes place after every other game. Meaning the Ganon we see in ToTK is tens of ******* thousands of years old easy, and we know that Ganon was a Gerudo and that because he hasn't died, there hasn't been a single new male Gerudo born in basically millennia.
Ah, thank you very much for all this very thorough information!
It's obvious ya don't know much about Zelda, but that ain't a bad thing.
I'd recommend playing Zelda OOT on the 3DS to start, if you like that, then WW and TP are good follow up games, I'd recommend MM but that game is much harder and involves micromanagement of time MM is my favorite one thou
BOTW is good but it's open world and doesn't convey the same formula as the 3D ones, plus TotK is out soon which is probably just gonna be better BOTW, and if you played BOTW right now you'd likely get burnt out before TotK.

In terms of 2D, I'd say start with AlbW, as AlttP is quite a bit harder and the rest are more archaic, even if good, if you like Albw, you'd probably enjoy the rest though.
I'm very sorry to tell you this, but I have played a lot of Zelda, I just don't remember it well. Been years since most of my playing it.

I've seen a lot of Majora's Mask, I completed Ocarina of Time, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess & Skyward Sword, & A Link Between Worlds, & I lack the means to play BotW. Outside of that, I experienced Triforce Hero's demo on the 3DS, & I haven't played any of the games that come before OoT, nor any of the other handheld Legend of Zelda games, although I've seen & heard a fair bit about a lot of them. (& I've also watched a lot about the CDi games, but I know well those are noncanon.)

Perhaps it is a bit shameful that I'm almost purely a 3D LoZ focused folk.
I'm certain that's what it's talking about, as we use to have Ganon as like 5-A or some shit due to it.
I recall that also.
It wasn't something to do with the Blood Moon, was it? I remember some controversy about that.
But I think we ditched that and just consider it magical hax stuff (HH calls it a type of curse). Because if it ain't that, then **** if I know, I might not have everything memorized but I have played every game, and nothing even comes close to that. But I'd ask DustCollector, he did the Ganon overhaul.
Calamity Ganon moves the moon in BOTW but we don't use that for some reason
Even if you don't have everything memorized, I commend what you can so readily bring forth!

Again, thanks for the information!
 
It wasn't something to do with the Blood Moon, was it? I remember some controversy about that.
It doesn't, Im pretty sure the feat the profile is quoting, is in WW when Ganon made it an endless night as that's the only thing that comes close to what could be interpreted as that.

I recall controversy on the BM too, but I forget what it even was, maybe the timeframe between in-game time (about 90m iirc) or on screen time (like 15 seconds)? But the timeframe wouldn't change the fact he's still moving the moon's mass imo.
Or maybe it was due to not knowing if it was him who was doing it for sure? But given AOC and even just TotK trailer stuff, we know for a fact he's the dude doing it 100%.
 
The thing about Ganon stopping the planets rotation is from back when we treated his endless night as him physically stopping / rotating the planet, but we stopped using that aged ago and he was meant to lose the Class Z via telekinesis because of it.

Iirc the controversy about the BM wad doubt over whether he was actually moving it, something about how the art book only mentioned his power staining the sky instead of directly stating he moved the moon. AOC kinda shoots the idea he doesn't do it in the foot tho, during the finale the armies of Hyrule attack Ganon at sunset and then 10 seconds later the blood moon justs shows up and starts hanging out in the middle of the sky causing everyone to panic because C.Ganon is now at full power (Well, his soul snake form is at full power, obviously he's not actually at full power yet due to having no physical form at the moment), kinda hard to just brush that off as a convient natural event that Ganon had nothing to do with.

People had some issues with how to handle the timeframe as well but eh.
 
It's pretty obvious he's the dude doing it. Like even in BOTW they say the blood moon only began when Calamity Ganon showed up, and before that there was no such thing. It's less that the blood moon causes Ganon to become full power, and more when Ganon hits full power, he can do a blood moon imo.
AoC and the TotK shit make it so blatantly obvious that arguing otherwise is actual insanity.

Timeframe wise, the celestial bodies in game move and follow in-game time, like obviously the sun and moon don't take 30m irl to do a full cycle, but the in-game clock says 24h, we should probably just use the in game time as the moon and sun follow that in every other instance, probably the same here.
 
Think I've got a calc laying around somewhere using the In game timeframe, got like 5 yottatons or something in that range.
 
uh oh, that's a bit much for the weakest version of ganon give or take
 
Yeah I found the calc (Can't link it because trying to link on mobile ******* sucks), 5.14 Yottatons for the blood moon...

Yeah seems a little high for one of the wweaker versions of the pig
 
idk maybe it's just me, but that still seems kind of high
Isn't the in game time like a hour?
Like a mach 300 moon is only 5-B, it can't be THAT fast right?
 
Ah, the in game time (The moon visibly moving from Point A to Point B) is Small Planet level, that's a bit higher than I expected but eh. Wonder if there's a way to make use of that without ******* the scaling. At the very least the LS should be used given how much of a critical part of multiple games that feat is.
 
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