League of Legends Speed Scaling Problem 3

[Agnaa]

Many of the feats are fine, but I'm still looking over the scaling, a lot of the links there seem unfounded and some people may not be able to scale.

Just recently Weekly had to change the blog from giving Subsonic general speeds to everyone, to only giving Subsonic combat/reaction, because the Subsonic general speed feats couldn't scale to everyone.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

It never ends.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Give that we're using usinversal scaling for the verse, even if people dont scale to someone they will still recieve a subsonic rating

 

[Agnaa]

We don't use universal scaling for any verse.

Since I edited it into my last post I'll put it here too, just recently Weekly had to change the blog from giving Subsonic general speeds to everyone, to only giving Subsonic combat/reaction, because the Subsonic general speed feats couldn't scale to everyone.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

We are using universal scaling for this verse, everyone has already agreed to that and has for some time, ever since Assalt brought it up in the first thread

 

[Agnaa]

No staff is in favor of using universal scaling for any verse. That's not a thing we do on this website.

Characters have to have some reason for scaling.

 

[Wokistan]

I mean, that other thread that got posted on the topic in general seems to have been pretty soundly rejected by the participants.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Wok By the end of the second thread everyone other than Agnaa had agreed to subsonic general scaling for everyone in the verse, even Friendly and Schro agreed to it

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Agnaa I am, Assalt is, all the other staff who agreed to applying this are

 

[Wokistan]

I mean the general thread asking if we scale people for reasons like "should be this strong".

This one

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Wok There is an entire massive blog that explains why everyone scales to everyone that we have been using for the past two threads

 

[Wokistan]

It seems like that blog is what Agnaa now wants to take a look at.

 

[Agnaa]

@Wok There is an entire massive blog that explains why everyone scales to everyone that we have been using for the past two threads

That blog doesn't necessarily scale everyone to everyone.

The Hypersonic feat didn't scale to everyone, it stopped at around 11 people.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The hypersonic feat doesnt scale to anyone as it is illegitimate

 

[Agnaa]

Any feats from Xayah/Rakan reach 11 people max, instead of scaling to everyone in the verse, as I found when looking into the scaling chain.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Xayah and Rakan are not Hypersonic, the feat was debunked in the last thread, why are you still arguing it?

 

[Agnaa]

Rakan has a Subsonic feat of his own that only scales to 11 people and not the entirety of the verse. The chain still applies.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The fact that there are so many fodder characters that have subsonic feats and subsonic scaling is more than enough evidence for universal scaling

Fodder Demacian soldiers have subsonic scaling and feats, fodder Noxian soldiers have subsonic feats and scaling, fodder Voidborn have subsonic feats and scaling, fodder Shadow Isles ghouls have subsonic feats and scaling, fodder Iceborn have subsonic feats

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Really universal scaling except absolutely fearless individuals (Annie maybe?) should be fine. Once a character in League has trained enough he is capable of pulling massive statues, dodging arrows, and the like, as shown with Demacia's training programs.

Also Noxian elites can dodge Kled's attacks somewhat. Guys not even worth mentioning the names of are capable of doing this.

 

[Agnaa]

My point is that more characters might be featless than we realize. The blog's scaling chain wasn't universal before, and it may still not be universal now.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It is universal now as no name fodder than every champion is able to outmatch have subsonic feats

 

[WeeklyBattles]

So unless there are any other issues this will be applied in a bit

 

[Agnaa]

So unless there are any other issues this will be applied in a bit

There are issues, the scaling chain hasn't been checked for validity.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Assalt has looked it over and agrees with it, and everyone else is fine with its application

 

[Moritzva]

I don't see a problem with the chain, and iirc, people have looked over it already.

Can you tell us where the holes in the scaling chain are?

 

[Agnaa]

I don't see a problem with the chain, and iirc, people have looked over it already.

Can you tell us where the holes in the scaling chain are?

I've already brought up multiple problems that the chain has had in the past, people supposedly looked it over but didn't realize those issues.

Weekly has claimed that Quinn/Lissandra scale to Valor when this isn't the case.

Weekly hasn't been able to give me statements of Teemo being comparable to Tristana, just that they're part of the same team.

It's really hard for me to point out issues in the current scaling chain when I've had to restart from square one five times at this point, and I'm not allowed to bring up issues from previous scaling chains. It's also hard when Weekly refuses to respond to me on Discord for 2 hours before insisting that the CRT gets applied immediately.

 

[Moritzva]

Let's relax for a moment.

Weekly, what's your argument for why Quinn/Lissandra scale to Valor, and why Teemo scales to Tristana?

 

[StrongClick]

I agree it still should be verified in case of issues before anything is changed

 

[Agnaa]

Let's relax for a moment.

Weekly, what's your argument for why Quinn/Lissandra scale to Valor, and why Teemo scales to Tristana?

Sure, but it's kind of annoying to demand that I bring up issues with the current scaling chain when I've only been able to work on it this morning (because he's abandoned the previous chain, forcing me to start from square one again), and for 2 of those hours Weekly has refused to respond.

I'm just not sure how you can expect that there's no more issues when I've found multiple issues in the past that Assalt didn't pick up on.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Let's relax for a moment.

Weekly, what's your argument for why Quinn/Lissandra scale to Valor, and why Teemo scales to Tristana?

Lissandra canonically outped Quinn who herself is not too far behind valor in speed given the fact that they canonically fight in tandem in combat with Valor only being marginally faster

Teemo and Tristana are part of the same commando unit and regularly fight alongside each other in the field

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Quinn is literally Valor's partner and they fight together all the time. Lissandra idk, but she's an Iceborn who is superior to people like Ashe and is at least a tiny bit comparable to the Frejlordian Demigods.

Teemo is a member of the Omega Squad, alongside Tristana. There is no indication that Tristana is significantly stronger than Teemo and they should be at least somewhat comparable.

All that doesn't even really matter for the subsonic applications, though. Every champion who is anything in battle is going to be Subsonic; even normal unnamed elite soldiers are capable of pulling that kind of speed off.

 

[Moritzva]

Off the bat, I don't see a massive problem with Tristana and Teemo scaling to each other. Not only do they work together and on the same team, but they are both of the same race and neither have any special magical abilities that would massively set them apart from other Yordles. Naturally, if two people are on the same team and same race, it's not unreasonable to assume they scale.

If I see two nonmagical dogs in a pack, I'm going to assume they are of remotely similar speed and strength. If I see two nonmagical yordles in a pack, I'm going to assume they are of remotely similar speed and strength.

 

[Agnaa]

Quinn doesn't fight in tandem CQC with Valor. Valor fights CQC while Quinn stands back and fires a crossbow.

Fighting together doesn't make people comparable unless they're shown to be comparable to each other doing similar movements while fighting.

Even if these minor things don't matter, I wasn't able to scale everyone to Subsonic general speeds when that's what Weekly was pushing for days ago, and so now it's just Subsonic attacks/reactions. I need time to be able to validate that everyone actually does scale to it, rather than just assuming that they do.

 

[Moritzva]

Lissandra canonically outped Quinn who herself is not too far behind valor in speed given the fact that they canonically fight in tandem in combat with Valor only being marginally faster

Teemo and Tristana are part of the same commando unit and regularly fight alongside each other in the field

Is that enough for you, Agnaa? If I am to be honest, I distinctly remember seeing both of these arguments on previous threads.

Edit: Ninja'd, I'll type up a new response.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@PixelKirby

Nonmagical being relative to Yordles. All of them are made of physical magical essence and can phase in and out of Runeterra at will.

 

[Agnaa]

If I see two nonmagical dogs in a pack, I'm going to assume they are of remotely similar speed and strength. If I see two nonmagical yordles in a pack, I'm going to assume they are of remotely similar speed and strength.

I'm personally fine with this for unnamed fodder, but not for named characters that have their own individual feats.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

All named characters are canonically >>>>>> the unnamed fodder in the verse. If they werent they wouldnt be named.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

You do not need to personally validate anything, everyone else who has agreed to the revisions who actually knows about the verse has already done that

 

[Agnaa]

Is that enough for you, Agnaa? If I am to be honest, I distinctly remember seeing both of these arguments on previous threads.

Edit: Ninja'd, I'll type up a new response.

I'd like some time to look through more than literally 10 connections on the scaling chain before I verify the whole thing, consider that the blog in general has had issues before.

 

[Moritzva]

Quinn doesn't fight in tandem CQC with Valor. Valor fights CQC while Quinn stands back and fires a crossbow.

Fighting together doesn't make people comparable unless they're shown to be comparable to each other doing similar movements while fighting.

Even if these minor things don't matter, I wasn't able to scale everyone to Subsonic general speeds when that's what Weekly was pushing for days ago, and so now it's just Subsonic attacks/reactions. I need time to be able to validate that everyone actually does scale to it, rather than just assuming that they do.

So, your second point addresses why Quinn and Valor scale. Quinn isn't just literally standing in a corner firing a crossbow. She's moving around and actually fighting. Even if Valor is more CQC focused, Quinn isn't just standing on her ass either.

As well, fighting together when there is no logical reason for there to be a massive discrepancy in power, alongside the fact that even fodder soldiers are capable of similar feats? That seems like it scales to me.