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League of Legends Speed Scaling Problem 2

WeeklyBattles said:
There is solid proof

All vastaya should be bare minimum comparable to if not muchfaster than Alistar
Click to expand...
Okay, so what is the proof that Alistar scales to Xayah/Rakan's feat? Because if he doesn't then he's not hypersonic, and neither are the other Vastayah.
 
@Agnaa Alistar scales to Xin who scales to Jarvan who scales to Sion who scales to Kled who scales to Kennen who scales to Shen who scales to Zed who scales to Xayah
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Agnaa Alistar scales to Xin who scales to Jarvan who scales to Sion who scales to Kled who scales to Kennen who scales to Shen who scales to Zed who scales to Xayah
Click to expand...
As I said earlier...

Agnaa said:
I know that Weekly's made a list of who scales to who, but it doesn't always include reasons/citations for why they'd scale. Is there a list out there that includes this?
Click to expand...
You're not making it easy for me to figure out why characters scale to each other.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Agnaa Because they fought, why else would they be comparable?
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I've heard that you've scaled some to each other because they're the same race. Were they all lying? Why was Assalt defending that?
 
@Agnaa No, it was a missunderstanding that i was trying to scale all the voidborn because they werre the same race when this is wrong, they all scale to the fodder newborn voidborn which are capable of tagging people who have the speed scaling we're using
 
Alistar fought Xin who not only caught Jarvan 3 off guard but personally trained Jarvan 4 in combat, Sion fought 3 out of the four jarvans and kept up with kled in combat, kled scales to kennen in general, kennen is equal in speed to shen, who is equal in nearlyevery aspect to Zed, who kept up with Xayah in combat
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Alistar fought Xin who not only caught Jarvan 3 off guard but personally trained Jarvan 4 in combat, Sion fought 3 out of the four jarvans and kept up with kled in combat, kled scales to kennen in general, kennen is equal in speed to shen, who is equal in nearlyevery aspect to Zed, who kept up with Xayah in combat
Click to expand...
This is amazing stuff, could you edit something like this into your blogpost in the scaling list (at your leisure ofc)? We're going to need to provide these reasons on the profile anyway, so we may as well get them in writing sooner rather than later.
 
@Agnaa Sure but I dont see why i need to when i can just add them when we're adjusting the profiles which should have been done a week ago
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Agnaa Sure but I dont see why i need to when i can just add them when we're adjusting the profiles which should have been done a week ago
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So that we can check them all to make sure that they're correct.
 
All of this info would have already been on the profiles but for some reason this thread is being dragged out way longer than it needs to be
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Agnaa Theyve been checked and approved as being correct for over a month already
Click to expand...
Where did you post all those scaling reasonings for people to check them?
 
I can't see the reasonings for the scaling in this blog, is it in another one?
 
Yes that blog, its the latter half of the blog, with each character listed and the reasoning why they scale to other characters
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Yes that blog, its the latter half of the blog, with each character listed and the reasoning why they scale to other characters
Click to expand...
It doesn't always give reasoning for why they scale, it simply states who they scale to.

So they clearly haven't been checked and approved as correct, since the reasoning for one character scaling to another haven't always been mentioned.

None of the specific reasonings you posted in this post (which I really appreciated) were in that blog.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Agnaa if it says 'comparable to x' it means theyve fought in some way. Plain and simple.
Click to expand...
You said in this post:

kled scales to kennen in general
Considering for the others you mentioned their fights, why didn't you mention the fight between Kled and Kennen? Was there a fight between them?
 
@Agnaa

Kled and Kennen are both Yordles , another race-based scaling.

Corki, Fizz, Gnar, Heimerdinger, Kled, Tristana, Kennen, Lulu, Poppy, Rumble, Teemo, Veigar, and Ziggs are all Yordles. They've never fought one another or been compared in lore almost in any fashion aside from all being Yordles.


Alistair was mentioned to be winning due to rage, not speed, and it was pointed out magic is what restrained him which implies he was just physically overpowering the soldiers; effectively zero mentions of speedblitzing. But what else is new? I could see giving him superhuman speeds at least, which is the consistent speed the verse shows and does not have multiple anti-feats discrediting.


League's just a symptom of how poor Vsbattles' standards for scaling are:

1) One feat allows you to be at a level - rarely does any League champion have more than one hypersonic feat- and many don't have combat-applicable hypersonic feats in the first place.

2) Anything that discredits said feat is then moved up to the feat's level - featless Voidborn are hypersonic instead of possible evidence Diana is not being hypersonic, especially odd given being hypersonic won't make Diana fall faster meaning the Voidborn would actually have to be slow to not get a bunch of free hits on her...

3) Lower showings that can't be moved up don't disprove said level - a featless human was throwing back Aspect Leona and trading somewhat evenly with her, Pantheon could only dodge quickly enough the bullet scraped his helmet not easily evade it with hypersonic speed.

4) No limit on scaling, meaning even if you're 5 or 6 fights down a scaling chain- A vs B, B vs C, C vs D, D vs E, E vs F, F still has the same feats as A even though F never fought A or even anyone who fought A or even anyone who fought someone who fought A - Literally shown in Weekly scaling list if you try following feats vs scaling.

5) Even if the characters have never met or fought or been compared in any way lore-wise you can still offer scaling based on race/faction/powerset - literally the case for multiple champions and then despite having no actual evidence the opposition somehow has to counter the zero evidence to prove it wrong.


Vsbattles has gone out of its way to force a system that makes proving the negative a thing. With practically no evidence, you have to disprove scaling that only exists because practically no information about them exists.
 
Friendlysociopath said:
snip
Click to expand...
So you have nothing to new to add despite multiple people disagreeing with you out of stubbornness? Cool.

Agnaa at the very least is bringing up new contentions, which btw I should hit him up on discord regarding.

At this point, you are arguing ad naseum.
 
Scaling chains exist for a reason, like rocker said, if you have am issue with scaling chains then you need to take it up with the wiki as a whole as literally every verse on this site uses them
 
I agree. If you have a Wiki-wide problem, make a more general CRT. I personally think you're bringing up needless and overly sceptical issues.

Also why are you pushing for just Superhuman so hard? Subsonic is extremely prevalent and that should be our minimum consideration. There is so much blitzing and arrow-dodging/destroying that such a speed is extremely supported. Superhuman is needlessly lowballed.
 
Friendly's point is mainly focused here. LoL scaling uses even champions that don't even have a connection between them to infinitely scale.
 
Except it doesnt. At all. All the champions that scale to each other scale for a legitimate reason. In fact the champions that DON'T scale are kept separate from the ones that do.
 
@Assalt

Personally I forgot subsonic and superhuman aren't the same tier- though I'm quite fine with subsonic for most of the cast.

And be honest now- what do you imagine are the odds of successfully telling a wiki where 90% of the pages are scaling that the scaling they use is wrong? I've seen countless CRT's ditched because "too much work" or "people won't accept this". Why should I have the slightest faith such an attempt would succeed? In my mind it's better to prove why the concept doesn't work with a franchise I know well (such as League) before bringing it up en masse.

@Weekly

Of course they scale for a legitimate reason when you change the rules for what's legit. From your own thread using Ashe as an example:

  • Ashe - Comparable to Sejuani
  • Sejuani - Comparable to Olaf and Udyr
  • Olaf - Stalemated Sejuani in direct combat, Comparable to Miss Fortune and Lucian
  • Udyr - Comparable to Sejuani and Lee Si
  • Lee Sin - Able to speedblitz people, Kept up with Udyr
  • Miss Fortune - Intercepted attacks from Hecarim, comparable to Olaf and Lucia
  • Lucian - At least comparable to if not superior to fodder ghouls that can tag Olaf, Comparable to Thresh, Olaf, and Miss Fortune (League of Legends)
  • Thresh - At least comparable to if not superior to fodder ghouls that can tag Olaf, Comparable to Hecarim, Kept up with Lucia on multiple occasions
  • Hecarim - At least comparable to if not superior to fodder ghouls that can tag Olaf, Comparable to Thresh
All of that scaling- where's the hypersonic feat they scale to? The hypersonic character they fought?
 
Not every character in a verse needs to have a Hypersonic feat in order to be listed as Hypersonic

Again, if you have an issue, vying it up with the wiki asks a whole as every verse here uses the same rule for scaling
 
Oh for ****'s sake Friendly I was almost getting somewhere. Stop going on useless 5 paragraph rants on why you hate the site's rules.

@Weekly You said here that characters are listed as comparable for fighting, but Friendly's said that Kled and Kennen haven't fought, and scale just for being the same race.

Who's wrong here?
 
You only said in your little scaling explanation post that Kled and Kennen scale to each other in general. So there's another scaling chain hidden in here? Could you explain it?
 
Kled is able to keep up with Sion in combat, who in turn is able to (or is going to be able to as per a cinematic that is confirmed to be canon in the future) keep up with Kennen

Now can we apply this already? This is getting needlessly tedious and is being drawn out for no good reason, we've got people trying to drag this out by questioning the core elements of the wiki ffs
 
Wait does Kled or Sion keep up with Kennen? That post was a bit confusing.

Could you link this cinematic that will be canon in the future?
 
@Agnaa

Kennen actually kills Sion lol. He's in death passive in the last shot.

I do agree that Kennen isn't just equal to Sion, but superior.

Edit: But yeah. Sion sees Kennen, turns to fight him, and before he can do anything he just freaking explodes with electricity.
 
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