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League of Legends Speed Scaling Problem 2

RegisNex1232

RegisNex1232

2,485
309
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2690833

Continued from the above, check it out to see if you've missed anything.

Established stuff:

Current scaling is flawed and needs an update, WeeklyBattles is making one for people to check.

Weekly made a blog collecting speed feats, and Assalt has commented on which are usable or not, it is a must read to get a better understanding of the problem and possible solutions.

Assalt has calculated two feats: Ziggs dodging a rocket and Xayah and Rakan KO-ing some ninjas. Also need further evaluation.
 
@Assalt I'm regrettably not the most familiar with Vsbattle terminology. Can you explain the differences between a feat as is, along with "likely" and "possibly"?

I don't mean to shut the whole Xayah/Rakan thing down but if there's a way of saying the feat is both as you calculated yet also might not be as you calculated- that's exactly what I would hope for. It sounds like what "possibly" would theoretically mean so I'd be all for that.
 
@weekly You're going to have to greatly expand on that list. Lux for example has practically no scaling to other champions for speed. Neither does Malzahar for another or Mordekaiser for a third- even Skarner is missing from that list.

At this point any champion that has not explicitly dealt with other certain champions isn't going to scale. Just existing and/or being rivals is not enough.

Has anyone read the new Ashe comics btw? Do they have hypersonic feats?
 
No you haven't.

^Based on what? Becuse he's a Yordle? And? Being the same race doesn't magically make you scale.

  • Alistar - As a former champion of the Fleshing he should be comparable to Xin Zhao, Should be comparable to Xayah and Raka
^Based on what? Because he's a Vastayah? Being the same race doesn't magically make you scale. We factually know in his case a non-Vastayah could do the same thing with Xin.

^Based on what? Being the same race doesn't magically make you scale. Especially for Voidborn that aren't even the same race.

I mean look at your Skarner:

  • Skarner - Should be comparable to those augmented by his crystals, Such as Camille, Orianna, and Jayce
Based on what? They use technology to interact with those crystals and harness the power- Skarner doesn't. Why should he scale? Why would that even matter for speed when Jayce uses his solely as a weapo?
 
Yordles and Vastaya are both canonically stated to be vastly faster than any human

Jayce is flat out stated in his lore to be physically augmented by the crystal, as are all of the other Hextech users
 
Firstly, post the full scaling chain here so that people have easy access to it. Secondly, a lot of this scaling is just like the old one where it says "Should be comparable" without really elaborating why. I think links to statements that show why they are comparable would be good to have in these reasons.
 
The chain has been up for almost a week and everyone who has participated in this thread was informed about it
 
2 days ago is hardly a week, and I would still prefer to have it posted here so that other members don't have to look far. It also makes it easier to discuss when the info being discussed is just up in the thread. I really have no idea why it seems unreasonable to ask people to post the scaling chain here, it isn't like I'm asking for more than a simple copy and paste.
 
Here I'll just copy from Weekly's blog

 
@Regis The blog is literalyl in the op why do you insist on posting the same thing multiple times for no reason?
 
Ok, what's going on with the Noxian champions? Swain scales to Darius, who scales to him and Draven, as well as LeBlanc, who scales to all of them and Vladimir, who in turn scales to Aatrox, Varus and Rhaast. This is terrible scaling that loops onto itself in certain places and doesn't explain much beyond "Comparable to ___".
 
Anyways so two things:

1. Being the same race is not evidence of scaling. That's just silly. Human soldiers don't get to scale to Garen just because they're human- same with all members of a race. That includes champions.

You wouldn't scale intelligence from being those things would you? Levels of training/experience? Stamina? All their skill and abilities? Strength and speed are no different- especially for Vastayah given that they apparently have extremely variable body types.

2. Same with being part of the same faction. That is likewise silly. Thresh has no reason to scale to Hecarim aside from both being part of the Shadow Isles. That's not enough to say they're on par with one another- especially if they've never had any contest between them.


And a 3rd thing, admittedly not just for League but, Vsbattles really needs a limit to how far down a chain a feat can scale. I can go from Ashe and a good four or five links to the relevant champions without a single hypersonic feat between them.

Look: Ashe = Sej = Olaf = Miss Fortune = Thresh = Lucian

Or even genuine supersonic since Miss Fortune's could be aimdodging and she implies the shooter isn't used to her guns so this is likely the case. Given Twisted Fate (another 'human') actually states he is aimdodging- this isn't very farfetched. Aimdodging a gun shouldn't give supersonic reflexes given that you're dodging the shooter- not the gun.
 
Scaling without decent reasoning isn't acceptable here, and a lot of "Comparable/Should be comparable to ___" is not good reasoning. Especially with the lack of feats to support this line of thought.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Its the reasoning we use for 90% of the profiles on this site
Click to expand...
Where? Generally there is stuff like "Has fought with/Kept up with/Outmatched ___" or a link to calculated feats. You've done very little of this for a lot of the profiles. And promoting speculation as fact is hardly okay, when people like to revise feats and profiles all the time for having insufficient evidence.
 
You dont need a mountain of evidence to scale to someone. If we required that here half the profiles would be empty.
 
You do need some evidence, which most of your 'reasonings' here fail to provide along with making people click 6 different links to get to a feat. There's not much explaining why the comparable champions are comparable.
 
Just because you dont think its valid doesnt mean its not valid. Everyone but you and Friendly agree that its valid.
 
Usually a same race/group scale to each other. For Friendly's human argument, that is bc they are not an average human. We don't scale Captain America to a normal person, as Cap is enhanced.

Unless there is sufficient evidence that the character is an extremely superpowered being compared to other members of the group, usually they scale to their own species.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Just because you dont think its valid doesnt mean its not valid. Everyone but you and Friendly agree that its valid.
Click to expand...
So now you are not interested in providing evidence. Great.
 
Regis, Im really getting tired of this. I compiled every speed feat in the entire series, i had feats calced, i organized an entire scaling system for the verse as a whole with reasoning for everyone that had it.

All youve done is complain because people dont agree with you and nothing else. All youve done is say no for little to no actual reason. All youve done is sk everyone else to prove things that are impossible for any verse on this wiki to accomplish. Youve done nothing here but obstruct the revisions.

You are in no position to say that i or anyone else here is "unwilling" to provide evidence when youve done nothing to help with this revision and have only stalled to the point that we need this second thread in the first place.
 
You haven't given any valid reasoning that this scaling works for most of the profiles, overestimated several feats and assumed that everyone would be fine with universal scaling without any support for no reason. You have taken forever to do anything asked of you, unknowingly stalling things for no reasons, and when pressed, you complain that I am harassing you for following up on stuff, while not answering any of the questions asked of you. This is hardly the willing, thoroughly checked work of someone who likes the verse, and I really don't think it's out of order to point out all the mistakes you've made in it.
 
I gave an entire list as to what scales to profiles that you simply refuse to accept because it doesnt conform to your ridiculous, borderline impossible standards of what you think things should be.

Everyone IS fine with universal scaling except for you and Friendly.

Yeah because its not like i have a life outside the wiki, work, school, and an aunt in the hospital on her death bed for the past week but how dare i inconvenience you by taking a bit of time to get things done and not magically make whatever you want happen instantly. Get over yourself.

Kinda funny how you say that when youre not even doing any work here.
 
You have given a scaling chain based off mostly assumptions without properly explaining why X should scale to Y. This is not good reasoning, especially when now after asking 3 times you have yet to elaborate on it or show proof to support your answers to Friendly's questions.

They aren't, last I checked, Assalt was still questioning this.

Ok, stuff which you could have shared rather than complain and post in other topics when you had the chance to help out. But sure, let's all bemoan how stressed you are, that you got to participate in VS threads or make SCP threads while ignoring any questions asked of you here. Why don't you get over yourself? Not everyone has the patience to wait while you waffle over other things.

Pointing out the mistakes made and debating to get a reasonable standard is work, whether you like it or not. This could easily have been done in a few days if you really cared about it, but sure, better waste that time on other Wiki stuff and then complain about being strapped for time.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Regis, I don't know why you seem available all the time, but stop thinking people should dedicate everything to a single thread. Most of us have other shit to worry about, in real life and on VSBW.
Click to expand...
So do I. But that doesn't stop me from posting now and then and later make me say "I don't have the time" when I clearly do, just like Weekly who can make edits, add pictures and participate in various threads only to ignore anything asked of him here and later bemoan about the lack of time. The very least he could have said was that he needed some time off, instead he chose to ignore this thread and was apparently fine with making SCP revisions and doing other wiki stuff during a stressful time for him. Especially when a lot of this scaling chain could have been better if he had taken some more of his wiki time to do it, rather than complain when people are pointing out mistakes and flaws in his assumptions.
 
RegisNex1232 said:
But sure, let's all bemoan how stressed you are, that you got to participate in VS threads or make SCP threads while ignoring any questions asked of you here. Why don't you get over yourself? Not everyone has the patience to wait while you waffle over other things.
Click to expand...
People get to choose the limited time they spend on their wiki when a relative's on their deathbed. This isn't something to "get over yourself" for. Choose your words calmer next time, don't just mindlessly spout Weekly's phrases back to him.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
So you want me to take more time to do it, but also to do it faster. Makes sense.
Click to expand...
Taking time off other VSB things for some help here is now too much to ask for? Or if you really were that stressed, then letting the thread know you would be unavailable for a while is also too much? Is better communication also too much to ask for?
 
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