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League of Legends Speed Scaling Problem 2

Agnaa said:
Snip
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Then you are dealing with an outlier at that case, Agnaa. Not an Antifeat. Antifeats usually imply a case by case basis for something. We dont use them on the wiki as a basis for a downgrade. We use the word outlier, for sure. But Outliers and Antifeats are two sides of the same coin.

Outlier = One feat above the norm. Antifeat = One feat lower then the norm.

One is explained by PIS, the other is inconsistent.

Dont believe me? We dont have a page for it! I am not saying we shouldnt, hell Antifeats have a place on this wiki. But we dont use them.

Yeah, Friendly has been at that for a while lol. Sometimes it is hard to understand him. But what he is saying is that three characters hypersonic feats above are massive debatable, according to him. Everyone else is fine with them. Edit: Well, him, Regis (who is banned) and Schro I think. The people with it include myself, Spino, Weekly, Assalt (with some caveats), Rocker, and Matt. And a few others I forgot tbh.
 
From what I've seen there's no problems with the Hypersonic as proposed, unless there's a scan showing they were high on the mountain.
 
@Agnaa Even if the mountain thing is determined to be incorrect Kayle performs the same feat in reverse (Flying from the ground to the portal above mount targon in seconds) thanks to her new lore
 
I retract all my previous statements.

What feat specifically is being used for Hypersonic combat speed? There were a lot of Hypersonic feats mentioned in the blog, many of which were actually slower or invalid, so I'm not sure which is meant to be used.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Xayah and Rakan's feat that assalt calced
Click to expand...
Looking at that calc, I take issue with it.

Why is it being assumed that the dudes start falling at 38.94 when Rakan and Xayah fell normally in that time but those assassins barely budged an inch? I'm not familiar with the series but it looks like some magic was keeping Rakan and the assassins in the air, but that wore off Rakan before the assassins. Hell, when they all finally hit the ground one of them lands noticeably later than the others.

Don't we also get many other usable shots of Xayah's feathers? Couldn't these be calc'd too to find what speed she usually throws them at?
 
Another "it was magic suspending them" interpretation.

This debate was already had and we agreed that the feat should either be likely or possibly, since that interpretation does exist. However, Rakan's magic isn't present when he drops to the ground and the others stay in the air.

As for the timeframe and whether or not they are falling, no. I measured it correctly and if you look at the exact time I sourced they are indeed moving downward.
 
So if it wasn't magic suspending them, why did Xayah fall normally before Rakan did, why did Rakan fall before all the other assassins even though Rakan was moving upwards when the assassins were moving downwards, and why did one of the assassins fall noticeably after all the others?

They were falling, as I saw, but they were barely moving during that timeframe, until Xayah's feathers left and they fell normally.
 
Rakan and Xayah are capable of using magic to move themselves, much like how Rakan used that same magic to propel himself forward without touching the ground when he initiated the knock up.

And yes, them moving very slowly is the point, since they should be falling at far faster speeds.
 
Do they ever otherwise use magic to fall down faster?

I see, I take back my issue with that.

EDIT: I'd also like to reiterate from my earlier post. Don't we also get many other usable shots of Xayah's feathers? Couldn't these be calc'd too to find what speed she usually throws them at?
 
There is only one other slow-mo shot im the video, and in that we have no known speed. As for normal throwing speed, they appear a lot slower, but that's expected and most of fiction has that occurrence.
 
To reiterate from my earlier post, do they ever otherwise use magic to fall down faster?

The normal throwing speed appears a lot slower? It seemed pretty fast to me, even slightly faster than in that window of a few seconds. Have you calculated it and found it a lot slower than 28 m/s?
 
@Agnaa

Rakan does use magic to fall faster, at least in-game. After he pops people up he hits the ground before they do, and they follow a pretty normal up-and-down motion.

The only ability that holds people in the air is Yasuo's Last Breath.
 
Rakan has an animation for falling down faster in-game, which he doesn't display here.

Also, is there an explanation for Xayah seemingly walking at a normal speed in front of the camera, while in the background the assassins are allegedly falling in slow-motion?
 
Why is Xayah walking at normal speed while the assassins are falling in slow motion?

Because she's fast... that's the point.

And Rakan has pretty much the same thing in-game as he does here, which is tucking his feathers behind him and dropping to the ground more quickly than those around him.
 
Because she's fast... that's the point.

Maybe but just in the next scene, we see her scoff and walk away at a similar speed, are we supposed to assume that that's happening in 74x slow-motion as well? Or was she actually walking away 74x faster mere seconds before?

By the animation I mean that it seems like a more sharp dash in the gameplay animation, rather than a gradual fall as it is in the cinematic, but we are getting to relatively minor points here.

EDIT: In both animations I don't see Rakan doing much with his feathers while in the air.

EDIT 2: I know that Weekly's made a list of who scales to who, but it doesn't always include reasons/citations for why they'd scale. Is there a list out there that includes this?
 
Agnaa said:
EDIT 2: I know that Weekly's made a list of who scales to who, but it doesn't always include reasons/citations for why they'd scale. Is there a list out there that includes this?
Click to expand...
He mentions it when such a reason actually exists. Otherwise the scaling is typically either:

1) Them being the same race

2) Them being a part of the same faction

3) Them using the same power source


Granted all are pretty silly but race especially so since the two races predominantly used to scale are Void-born and Vastayah: both of which have radically different body types for their different sub-races and the former continue to evolve as they go so any scaling is pointless because the race continues to individually advance past their birth.


For your mention of the magic Rakan uses, if you watch the bottom of the screen you can see Rakan's magic is still down there and when it fades, shortly after the airborne people start falling.
 
Members of a race usually scale to each other, moreover in this case it is supported by even fodder Voidborn and Vastayah.

A peak human would scale to a rabbit even if he never fought the rabbit, if a normal human restrained the rabbit.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Members of a race usually scale to each other, moreover in this case it is supported by even fodder Voidborn and Vastayah.

A peak human would scale to a rabbit even if he never fought the rabbit, if a normal human restrained the rabbit.
Click to expand...
This doesn't seem to be the case for all the scaling, i.e. random Vastayah scaling to Xayah/Rakan. I'm not sure if those two would be considered fodder Vastayah which everyone can scale to.
 
Well is it fair to say that Xayah and Rakan are average for their species? Nothing indicates them being significantly above average or below, so I think scaling them to similarly normal Vastaya should be OK.

It isn't like scaling Kog to Cho'gath, since Cho is an exceptional member of his species, like Kog's father.

Also all the Vastaya scale to any human feat that doesn't come from a major superhuman like Ryze.
 
I have to agree with Friendly on this one, ordinarily I could buy that the race could just scale to each other as a whole but because they literally take drastically different apperances and are imbued with magic powrs... I can't definitively say the race is equal in strength.
 
Again, Vastayahs have more variety than dogs. And even dogs, which have a lot of similarities, still have abismal differences between them. Saying that every Vastayah should scale to one anoher because the yare of the same race is the same as saying that a Pug is comparable to a Pit Bull.
 
"Were I to hypothesize about the origins of these beings ― and being a learned gentleman of the physical sciences, I consider myself more than qualified to do so ― I would theorize that the vastaya are not an individual species, but a taxonomic classification more on par with a larger order, or a phylum."

This comes directly from the Vastayah Journal.

https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/vastaya-field-journal/

This would remove the possibility of scaling, since it completely removes the key point to said scaling: Vastayah being a species. And the differences between members of a phylum are "countless". A great example of how much a phylum can have a great variety is the Chordata Phylum, which consists of lifeforms with either a hollow dorsal nerve cord, notochord, pharyngeal slits, endostyle or post-anal tail. Falcons, Blue Whales, Humans, Insects and other beings are Choridate, and we all know how different they are.

Phylum.

Chordata
 
My list includes citations for every character who scales

Also just going to point out that even the canonically SLOWEST Vastaya, Alistar, is able to keep up with Xin Zhao
 
Saying "kept up with" without links/citations to the evidence is different from having solid proof to scale.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
My list includes citations for every character who scales
Also just going to point out that even the canonically SLOWEST Vastaya, Alistar, is able to keep up with Xin Zhao
Click to expand...
Xin has the feat of being... superhuman because he could blitz multiple human guards like in the recent story. Not supersonic. Not hypersonic. Just superhuman.

Also "keep up" based on what? Xin defeated Alistair if you believe the recent story for Xin. That's it. The sole link between the two is one line from a soldier that's wondering at the legend of Xin's exploits.

Also canonically "slowest" based on what? Movement speeds in-game? The same game that developers have pointed out is not the lore?
 
Not sure if Alistar is supposed to be the slowest in lore. I doubt he's slower than Malphite or Nautilus, who take ******* forever to make any step.
 
SchroKatze said:
Again, Vastayahs have more variety than dogs. And even dogs, which have a lot of similarities, still have abismal differences between them. Saying that every Vastayah should scale to one anoher because the yare of the same race is the same as saying that a Pug is comparable to a Pit Bull.
Click to expand...
Vastayah should not 100% scale to each other, but strong ones clearly scale to fodder ones. If a pug can defeat a cat, it is reasonable to assume that a pit bull can defeat a cat even if a pit bull never fought a cat.
 
@Spino

The fodder Vastayah die to humans. There's no "fodder" Vastayah champion just like there's no "fodder" human champion.

Alistair's lore is all about how his village and family being killed by Noxians. Alistair by contrast to his brethren is the mightiest minotaur and charges an entire regiment of Noxians- who only stop him thanks to magic because he was winning.
 
Who is saying that any champion is fodder? No champ is fodder, but there are champs who are faster or slower than others. Like Alistar.

Killing hundreds of soldiers with subsonic feats is actually more proof that he scales.
 
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