League of Legends Speed Scaling Problem 2

[Xalatath]

Scaling Voidbornes to eachother will be like scaling human to elephant because they are both carbon based lifeforms.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Nameless, freshly created, fodder voidborn are capable of tagging ascendants, targonian aspects, and iceborn. There is no reason whatsoever for the voidborn champs to not scale.

 

[The_Causality]

Too many LoL CRT

 

[Friendlysociopath]

@Reigis

Actually Kog is stated to grow in size as he eats stuff too, just like Cho'Gath. Though the fact that voidborn change in mass should be a heavy hit against scaling in the first place given that it means we've no idea how large and subsequently durable/fast they are compared to one another. There's a great deal of variable stats they could have in relation.

Also a reminder that just one small hextech gun powered by a small stone was capable of wounding Skarner through his crystal defenses, Skarner who has a full crystal and is considered one of the strongest Brackern.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The voidborn champs should be no slower than newborn fodder nameless voidborn that scale to ascendants, iceborn, and aspects

Aye, shows just how powerful those crystals are

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

It seems like void-born creatures don't necessarily have species, their species just IS void-born considering we never see two of the same creature (kind of like the Vastayan(?)). Just a thought.

Regardless they are clearly not the same in strengths. Kai'Sa in particular is technically void-kin and we know for a fact that she has slaughtered many others in the void. Doesn't make sense for her to be comparable yet slaughter dozens of other void creatures. I also don't see how Kha'zix contests with someone like Cho'gath either, he is literally too large to be hurt by the rodent.

The void is "hunt or be hunted" for a reason, because everyone varies in strength. If they were comparable then it wouldn't matter if you got hunted as you'd be strong enough to fight and 50-50 win.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Kai'sa regularly has on-screen/in-comic fights with newborn voidborn and they can react to her attacks, as can freshly corrupted beings that have been void corrupted.

The void isn't hunt or be hunted, things don't even exist in the void to hunt

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

It is hunt or be hunt, Kai'sa quote: "Survival means never stopping, the void knows that too."

I just read the comic, a newborn voidling comes out on the third page and Kai'sa literally ohkos it with a single blast. Then she proceeds to take out the void corrupted birds flying towards her and the man with her Q ability. Then a big mofo comes out and she proceeds to bust his shit in too, though they still seem comparable (and that shes only winning through intelligence)

In general, that comic only proves that they are not comparable. She oneshots two of the void creatures we see attack her.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes she wins via Intelligence and via having lived around and fighting voidborn for so long that she knows all of their attack patterns by heart

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also i dont thinkyou quite understand, it is physically impossible to 'hunt or be hunted' in the void. Voidborn are nonexistent in the void, so as to say they have no body for which they can hunt or use to hunt.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Winning via intelligence AND AP difference. She literally oneshots 2-3 (its hard to tell how many birds) voidborn on screen. That's not comparable.

Where does it say voidborn are nonexistent in the void? My understanding is they are born from nothingness, but that isnt the same as nonexistance.

 

[Friendlysociopath]

The voidborn champs should be no slower than newborn fodder nameless voidborn that scale to ascendants, iceborn, and aspects
Aye, shows just how powerful those crystals are

The overall featless in relation to speed ascendants, iceborn, and aspects, yes. No more reason to scale them to one another than any other race/faction.

Also something I noted looking at Pantheon's mountain-jump calc, it's missing the part of the lore where it states the enemies were on the mountain multiple times, once even pointing out they were high on the mountain- meaning he didn't travel from the top to the base as the feat summary states but from the top to some height presumably above the halfway point.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Where does it say voidborn are nonexistent in the void? My understanding is they are born from nothingness, but that isnt the same as nonexistance.

"Beyond the material plane, outside and somehow below it, lies the unknowable abyss. It is the realm of the Void, where no mortal or immortal creature may ever walk. It is not necessary to know how such a place ever came to be, nor why—only that it did. The Void is eternal. The Void consumes all.

In that place, in the cold, endless dark, all is equal and empty. For timeless eons, there was purity in that fact. There was peace, if such a term could have any meaning there.

Then, something changed. Not in the Void realm, but elsewhere. It was existence, it was... something, where before there had been nothing, and its mere presence scraped against the vast, cold, formless entities that drifted in the blackness. Before this, they had not even been fully aware of their own sentience, and yet now they knew that they could not tolerate the presence of this other place; this other-realm of mercurial, overwhelming creation.

The entities watched. They scrutinized.

And soon enough, the Watchers found themselves being scrutinized in return. The tiny, mortal minds that reached out to them were insignificant, little more than fleeting motes of light at the very edges of the abyss. Yet, in them, the Watchers saw a chance to invade the material realm, to destroy it, to silence the intolerable pulsing of reality beyond the Void.

The boldest of them tore open the veil and hurled themselves upward, only to be horribly disoriented by the sudden shift between the abyss and the corporeal, linear nature of reality. In an instant, there was time, and heat, and pain...

Then there was only cold. The way was shut, and dozens of the Watchers were trapped in the liminal space between two realms, frozen in the moment of transition.

Those that remained in the Void recoiled. They had no concept of what had happened, yet they knew they had been betrayed.

And so, they adapted.

Reaching into the material realm, the Watchers took from the crude matter that comprised it, shaping, corrupting and imbuing it with consciousness. These constructs were the first of the Voidborn, and would be their masters' eyes and ears, sent forth into the nightmare of existence to watch, listen, and learn."

This as well as a few other odds and ends bits from the Void's page on Universe. It's the reason why every native voidborn has Nonexistent Physiology

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Friendly Seeing as they have canonically kept up with Diana, dozens of ascendants during the Fall of Icathia and the Darkin War, and likely hundreds of iceborn during Lissandra's rule over the Frostguard youd have to ignore a LOT of lore to try to claim that theyre featless.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Not at all. You'd just have to avoid universal scaling for dumb reasons, try not to ignore context and instead actually scale to canon characters the champions have fought. And Cho/Kog/Rek haven't fought any champions. So you know, common sense.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

"Common sense" is the dumbest reasoning ever. "You'd just have to avoid" because you think it feels wrong matters not.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I'm alive again. Flu beaten.

So, while not all members of the same species are comparable to each other, they can be universally superior to another. For example, if Cho'gath appears to be an exceptional member of his species, much like Ryze is to the humans, scaling from him wouldn't be valid. However, all members of a species acknowledged as superior to another would scale to a feat done by an average member of the aforementioned species.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

So you mean Cho'gath should scale just like a peak human would at least scale to a normal human? Not disagreeing, just want to make sure your point.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Yes. A strong Voidborn should scale to the feats of a normal Voidborn just like a strong human would scale to me.

In this case a strong human should be superior to a rabbit, since I am superior to a rabbit, even if that strong human has never restrained a rabbit like I have.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Ok. Makes sense.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Assalt So you agree with the voidborn scaling or...? And the scaling in general...?

 

[RegisNex1232]

RegisNex1232

"Common sense" is the dumbest reasoning ever. "You'd just have to avoid" because you think it feels wrong matters not.

Ignoring logic for no reasons is even dumber. As is scaling just because they are Voidborn, when some types are clearly designed for speed in certain environments which can't be applied to everyone. This also applies to the Vastaya and the Shadow Isle champs, along with regional champions who all get comparable speeds for being from the same area.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The voidborn would still scale via your argument of 'common sense' as a mature Voidborn should be bare minimum comparable to if not superior to a newborn.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Voidborns have different sizes and shapes for different environments. They should be rated based on their individual feats and performances and not by universal scaling just because they are all from the Void. You don't scale someone's swim speed to their running speed, ao why should we do that here?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I think subsonic would be universal and Voidborn should scale to any feat done by a normal human or even normal Vastaya, like Xayah and Rakan.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Regis The Voidborn that fought the ascendants, aspects, and iceborn werent the swimming ones, they were land-based, same with all of the voidborn champs

 

[RegisNex1232]

That might work, but I was thinking more like each individual champ gets their own reasoning. Like Kha'Zix scales to Rengar, while Rek'Sai has her own feats, and maybe some can get speeds based on size (Vel is pretty big, as is Cho). I wouldn't scale to Vastaya at all as not all Vastaya are equal. You can't tell me Wukong, Ahri, Nami and Alistar are all similar in speed just because they are Vastaya.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Unknown fights based on overwhelming force of numbers is not good enough to justify universal scaling, especially when current scaling is present for some of them.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I mean even an absolute army of millions of gnats would do nothing to a human.

They have to be at least somewhat comparable.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Regis What youre asking for is impossible, there is no verse on this entire wiki where every single character has their own individual feats and reasoning for their stats

Also All four of the champs you listed scale to the same feats in some way

 

[RegisNex1232]

You're still relying on vaguely defined fights with no mentions of speed or even equivalence between all Voidborns in this regard. I can get a speed rating based on being superior to humans but not the same for the superbeings of Runeterra. This is also being taken over current scaling for some champions.

 

[RegisNex1232]

@Regis What youre asking for is impossible, there is no verse on this entire wiki where every single character has their own individual feats and reasoning for their stats

Also All four of the champs you listed scale to the same feats in some way

They all have reasonable scaling that don't rely on gameplay or just basic stuff like "they must be superior".

Where? You haven't shown that anywhere in your scaling. There honestly shouldn't need to be a lot of questions regarding the evidence available.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

>Vaguely defined fights

Diana's entire lore story is exclusively about her fighting a bunch of voidborn in said story

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

"vaguely defined fights with no mentions of speed"

You'll have to be roughly comparable in terms of combat speed and reactions in order to fight someone.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Wukong scales to Yi, Nami scales to the Voidborn, Ahri scales to the Noxian soldiers and the Order of Shadow, and Alistar scales to Xin Zhao. You really didnt even bother to look through it did you?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Night's_Work

"Diana surged to her feet as the spaces between the stones split apart. The air buckled and a trio of screeching beasts charged her with ferocious speed; ivory flesh, bone-white carapaces of segmented armor and steel talons.

Terrors.

Diana dived beneath a snapping jaw filled with teeth like polished ebony, slashing her sword in an overhead arc that clove the first monster's skull to its heavy shoulders. The creature fell, its flesh instantly unraveling. She rolled to her feet as the others circled like pack hunters, now wary of her gleaming blade. The creature she had killed now resembled a pool of bubbling tar.

They came at her again, one from each side. Their flesh was already darkening to a bruised purple, hissing in this world's hostile atmosphere. Diana leapt over the leftmost beast and swung her sword in a crescent arc towards its neck plates. She yelled one of the Lunari's holy words and incandescent Crescent Strike light blazed from the blade.

The beast blew apart from the inside, gobbets of newly-wrought flesh disintegrating before the moonblade's power. She landed and swayed aside from the last beast's attack. Not fast enough. Razored talons punched through the steel of her pauldrons and dragged her around. The beast's chest split apart, revealing a glutinous mass of sense organs and hooked teeth. "

Please do tell me what about this is vague

 

[RegisNex1232]

Xin Zhao has no feats beyond scaling, the Order of the Shadow have no feats beyond getting blitzed and the Aquatic Voidborn haven't been quantified. So yay, totally fine for scaling all Vastaya to each other like you were proposing earlier.

Right, which somehow indicates all the other Voidborn champions and Malzahar get scaling from that. Especially when Diana doesn't have any speed feats like Pantheon's jumps or Kayle's flight and also needs scaling to stuff she hasn't shown as part of her capabilities.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Theyre newborns. It makes no sense whatsoever to not scale the voidborn that have been around for anywhere from years to millennia to ones that have been alive for all of a few seconds.

>Diana doesnt have any feats

The first thing she does when she gets her powers is speedblitz Leona who is equal in speed to Pantheon.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Honestly, is it that difficult to give reasoning like "X could match Y in ____, therefore they scale" with a link to the feat and its evaluation? The scaling in the blog rarely does that and requires clicking through several profiles just to get to a feat that may not be applicable based on the vague wording of said reasoning

 

[Assaltwaffle]

I don't think the Order of Shadow grunts should scale if that's proposed. They got bodied by Rakan and Xayah. The elites like Kayn and Zed should scale, though.