League of Legends Speed Scaling Problem 2

[RegisNex1232]

He tagged them in his teaser trailer

Ivern being > Maokai isnt even WoG thats just lore scaling

Again, teaser trailer unsupported by every other piece of media that shows Jhin interacting with only one of the shown characters is not good evidence. You're better off trying to scale Trundle to Tryndamere.

Right, which is what? What lore says Ivern is fast/faster than Maokai?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

All teasers are canon my dude, just saying that its not good evidence doesnt make it so

The sense that the host of the God Willow should be vastly superior in all aspects to a regular nature spirit?

 

[RegisNex1232]

All teasers are canon my dude, just saying that its not good evidence doesnt make it so

The sense that the host of the God Willow should be vastly superior in all aspects to a regular nature spirit?

Right, which is why these 4 champions are all dead and have no present stories indicating otherwise. Or that there is a connection between the champions that is so far not mentioned in the lore. Zed is the only one who Jhin can scale to.

Again, something that makes sense and doesn't require going to Riot for answers. How is a host of the God Willow superior beyond your say-so? Given that your say-so in the scaling chain is why I'm asking this.

 

[RegisNex1232]

I would like an explantion as to how all the Voidborn/Vastaya/Hextech users somehow should be comparable in speed, when they all have different abilities and capabilities that do not support this idea at all?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Assalt already covered the first two

Hextech users are blatantly stated to be physically amplified in speed and strength by the Brackern Crystals they wield, and as of yet nothing implies that any one hextech user is any faster or slower than any other.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Which was answered by the fact that they all have different sizes and shapes designed for various methods of travelling. How does Rek'Sai's burrowing scale to Vel'Koz, or Nami's swimming to Ahri running? This point was strangely ignored for no reason.

I would like some proof supportimg your statement, given that a Brackern using its crystal is very different from combining it with technology. How is it said to be equal to Skarner's speed, let alone to other Hextech users of various kinds?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

"The automatons sprinted toward Jayce, breaking free of the wires connecting them to the crystal and introducing Jayce to another new emotion: panic. He gripped the hammer tight, realizing he'd never actually used it before. When the first golem was within reach, he swung as hard as he could, feeling the shard's energy surge through his muscles, accelerating the hammer's movement until Jayce was worried it might fly out of his hands."

Theyre physically augmented in strength and speed by the brackern crystals in their weapons/bodies depending on which champ youre referring to

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Im all set to apply the changes btw, everyone but you has accepted them

 

[RegisNex1232]

Right, which somehow means that it is capable of matching Skarner? Or that everyone has equal augmentations? Again, this isn't enough to equate Hextech users to Skarner in speed and power, let alone each other.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Im all set to apply the changes btw, everyone but you has accepted them

No one has said anything regarding accepting this, while you were busy ignoring this thread for other threads. When I make a post for figuring your silly reasoning out, you immediately jump in with the intent of rushing stuff for no reason and no real acceptance. This is no way to make and apply revisions.

 

[Friendlysociopath]

Just to be clear, Jayce's lore only mentions the hammer's energy moving through his arms, not his brain or legs. That was the only mention I remember seeing of hextech helping him and I don't even know if it 100% meant it was giving extra strength as opposed to him literally feeling the giant battery in his hands working. That was the only mention I saw possibly about amplifying anything and it had nothing to do with reflexes or speed.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Right, which somehow means that it is capable of matching Skarner? Or that everyone has equal augmentations? Again, this isn't enough to equate Hextech users to Skarner in speed and power, let alone each other.

Yes because they have a small, blatantly stated weaker version of the shard that Skarner has embedded in his body which was also stated to be far stronger than the other Brackern Crystals

 

[Rocker1189]

If not obvious yet I am with assalt and weekly on the scaling.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I agree as well.

 

[RegisNex1232]

That wasn't anywhere close to a decent answer. Especially when Hextech users and Skarner have differing feats amd abilities derived from the crystals.

 

[RegisNex1232]

And so far no one apart from Weekly has actually gone to the phase of attempting to apply the revisions. The rest are still asking if his proposed changes are sensible and have sufficient evidence, and was going on until Weekly tried to skip it after I bumped the thread with some unanswered questions.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Hmmn so Rocker, Matthew, me and Assalt are non-existent?

 

[RegisNex1232]

Hmmn so Rocker, Matthew, me and Assalt are non-existent?

Assalt hasn't been active and his last post was discussing some of the reasoning presented in the scaling. The rest of you haven't exactly participated beypnd blind acceptance and Rocker volunteering to look for scans. You haven't exactly tried to show that you have read and analysed anything shown beyond "they all scale because they are all humans/X species".

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Though you were saying that no one agrees with Weekly. Agreeing without a shit-ton of points =/= disagreeing, otherwise those "fra votes" in vs threads won't count at all. Most people (including me) feel that Weekly had already said enough. And Rocker said he agrees with Weekly in his last post.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

It's just like saying in an unanimous revision, only the OP's opinion counts because he was the only one that posted a lot of evidence and points.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Assalt hasn't agreed with Weekly, as he was still questioning some of the stuff in his last post, along with a few others. But somehow the acceptances of people who haven't said much, explained why or even tried to make sure Weekly is being reasonable and providing evidence is enough to skip over several points of ongoing discussion and force revisions through? So admins are just fine with not checking anything just to get their preferred ratings?

 

[RegisNex1232]

It's just like saying in an unanimous revision, only the OP's opinion counts because he was the only one that posted a lot of evidence and points.

It isn't unanimous when people are questioning some of the changes. Especially when said questions are repeatedly ignored in hope of forcing revisions through.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Because people agree with Weekly points after reading the discussion between you two? When people disagree with your debunked points you say that they ignored them.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Right, which totally means you've read through and understood everything in the thread, and so should be able to explain why we should scale all the different types of Voidborn or Vastaya to each other. And can cite evidence supporting this when asked for it unlike Weekly. So go ahead and do so. Show us why Weekly is right. Show us why we should accept shoddy reasoning and little evidence as scaling.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Weekly literally posted a scaling list on his blog.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

And as I said members of the same race scale to each other unless sufficient evidence is given that the speed feat is performed by an extremely powerful character. Just like a chicken is roughly comparable to another chicken unless it is a mutant chicken.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Weekly posted a scaling chain full of "Comparable to __" without explaining why fully and with evidence. But a calc group member seems to think such low standards are perfectly fine, so let's rush this without trying to fix anything.

A minotaur is hardly equivalent to a mermaid. Or a humanoid monkey to a fox tailed girl. This is like comparing hummingbirds to eagles and ostriches. Have you actually seen the characters in question?

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

A minotaur is a creature in Greek mythology with the head of a bull and the body of a man. The mermaid is an aquatic creature with the upper body of a female human and the lower body of a fish. Humingbirds and eagles and ostriches are all birds, but different orders, families, genuses and species. Moreover, there is sufficient evidence that they are not comparable in strength and speed.

Meanwhile, Voidborn are all beings constructed by the Watchers. Vastaya are the same type of chimeric creature.

Unless there is sufficient evidence that the power of members in a race fluctuates a lot, like the MCU Kree, then they are likely comparable.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Here's some problems outlined with the town level AP calc. Figured it was relevant here.

 

[RegisNex1232]

So you haven't seen any characters or read any of their lore, good to know. Or you'd know which champions I was referring to and why this line of thinking is dumb when they are all Vastaya, just of different species. Or that the Voidborn have different sizes and shapes, as well aa functions. And there is no sufficient evidence that they all have comparable speed and reactions.

So why should I take a clearly uninformed opinion as an answer? Along with the clearly lowered standards of proof for an admin.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

We tend to scale members of a race to each other unless sufficient proof that they are different in terms of speed and strength, not the other way round.

 

[Agnaa]

We tend to scale members of a race to each other unless sufficient proof that they are different in terms of speed and strength, not the other way round.

Would a race which varies wildly in shape, size, and function be considered comparable unless there was a clear statement that they're different in terms of speed and strength? Is the race consisting of individuals that vary in areas that are related to speed/strength not enough?

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Would a race which varies wildly in shape, size, and function be considered comparable unless there was a clear statement that they're different in terms of speed and strength? Is the race consisting of individuals that vary in areas that are related to speed/strength not enough?

In real life, yeah mass is directly related to strength but fiction usually ignores that.

 

[Agnaa]

In real life, yeah mass is directly related to strength but fiction usually ignores that.

So to make it 100% crystal clear, even though they vary in those areas they still scale to each other (unless it's heavily stated/implied that they don't), since some fictions ignore how mass relates to strength?

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

It's definitely not crystal clear, but good enough imo, unless proved otherwise

 

[Agnaa]

Of course it's a muddy situation, I just wanted to clarify your position on why they should scale.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

It is the other way around. All members of a race are only comparable if they are shown as such for the most part. The Skrull and Kree in MCU is a good example, they are shown as comparable since they consistently take turns fighting one another.

Saiyans in DBZ are an example on the opposite side of the spectrum. Sure they're strong in general but saying a character like Raditz is comparable to Vegeta because they are the same race and species is... so wrong.

Nearly all them vastly differ in strength and ability, with Goku and Vegeta (and now Broly I guess) being the only ones consitently shown as comparable. Gohan, Goten and Trunks have been comparable at one point but not always, and as such they are not consistent.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Saying Raditz is comparable to Vegeta is wrong because they are shown to be different in power.

 

[HierophantDeluxe]

Right, my point is their strength can vary immensely and saying any void creature or human for that matter can scale to the others is wrong because they could be the Vegeta and Goku of their race.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Right, my point is their strength can vary immensely and saying any void creature or human for that matter can scale to the others is wrong because they could be the Vegeta and Goku of their race.

Exactly. Vel'Koz is an ancient Voidborn investigating things by disintegrating them, while Cho'Gath is a monster who grows in size as he feasts on things. Rek'Sai is a land shark in Shurima, while Kha'Zix is a buglike predator who tangoed with Rengar once. Not to mention the aquatic Voidborn in Nami's comic. How anyone can blindly say that they are all equal in speed is beyond me. It would do a lot of good if people actually read, and saw, the profiles being mentioned rather than blindly trusting someone.