- 2,764
- 397
Intro
This time the argument isn't about Simon's existence or even him crossing the multiverse, it's about what his Spiral Power did with the multiverse itself.
Feat
Simon integrates the multiverse itself and even merges with every possible version of himself (which does not just include alternate reality Simons, but even the past and future versions of himself)
Integration Mechanics
The way integration has been shown to work is not because of Simon's Lagann, but because of Simon's Spiral Power that forms these drills. As seen in Episode 13, Simon integrates Katra Leader via Gurren Lagann's drills (technically Simon's drills), and on the monitor, it shows the drills which are glowing a brighter green because they were formed by Spiral Power.
And in Episode 8, this same green glow appears as the drills protrude around Gurren Lagann's body.
And to further prove that it's Spiral Power, which is used to integrate, and not because of the mech, is the fact that Kittan's King Kittan isn't a Core Machine (or Lagann-type Gunmen), and it still integrated a drill to its arm to make it fully functional.
To summarize, the Spiral Energy has to grab the objects in question that the user wants to integrate. This means that in order for Simon to integrate the multiverse AND his past and future selves, his Spiral Energy has to actually traverse the entire structure and points in time where his other selves are to be able to integrate and merge with them in the first place.
Edit: To further corroborate that Simon used his Spiral Power to integrate the multiverse, he was shown and stated to use his Core Drill when doing it; the Core Drill being a conduit for Spiral Power, and has been used to release it before. Even in the clip of the episode, a green glow is emitted from Simon’s hand
New edit: This statement from Work Soul (Gurren Lagann movie guidebook) also suggests that Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is a product of the multiverse by the activation of Super Spiral Power. Basically the multiverse is Simon’s weapon because of his Super Spiral Power, which would further support the way the multiverse was integrated
Regarding Gurren Lagann's Time Travel Mechanics
Time traveling has been done a couple of times via a technique and attack, but do you know what these both have in common? The fact that they are performed by manipulating multidimensional probability.
Random Schrodinger Warp
The Random Schrödinger Warp is a technique in which Ashtanga enter probability space and shift up and down the time-axis by manipulating multi-dimensional probability fluctuations. In this state, the Ashtanga exist everywhere along the local space-time axis simultaneously in a state of uncertainty, hence the Schrodinger part of the name. In this state, the Ashtanga exist in innumerable places simultaneously in space-time and multiple dimensions
Possible Space-Time Axis Simultaneous Fire
This is an attack that Lordgenome developed in order to battle against the Random Schrodinger Warp. It works by detecting enemies throughout time itself and firing probability fluctuating bullets in order to be able to reach the enemy hiding throughout multiple points of the near past and future.
With these techniques, the mechanics of time travel has been established. Manipulating probability is needed to perform time travel
A Commonly Argued Feat
Back to Simon's feat, there is nothing that states that he is manipulating probability so that his Spiral Power can traverse the multiverse, and same to himself traveling throughout the multiverse in order to save his friends from the trapped multiverse. Simon doesn't travel to just alternate realities; he also travels to the future of a universe that Yoko was trapped in, which was previously established a year ago in a previous attempt at upgrading TTGL. This should actually be a supporting feat, as in this instance, Simon also does not alter probability to travel through time, he literally just flies to that point, which can be backed up by his Spiral Power also being able to travel to the past and future.
Supporting Argument
Time travel has been previously established as needing probability manipulation to perform. Simon was stated to break through the walls of the multiverse, and he perceives those universes' past, present and future all at once, ie viewing those universes as the entire space-time continuum. Plus, through the activation of a far superior version of Spiral Power, Super Spiral Power, Simon is now capable of viewing said universes, so it isn't the use of an already existing hax he has. Super Spiral Power gave him an immense upgrade for him to see the universes' past and future. The universes didn't just come crashing down to appear in front of him, it's trying to portray that he sees it all now.
Conclusion
These are the final reasons on why I believe TTGL God tiers should be rated in speed as Immeasurable.
If this is accepted, I will obviously make a scaling chain of God tier speed, and if not I honest to God give up
Who Would it Scale to?
Simon (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth) [Same as before, except now has infinite reserves of Spiral Power]
Team Dai-Gurren (Post Multiverse Labyrinth) [Nia, Yoko, Viral, Lordgenome, Boota] {Were all given the same power as Simon}
Gurren Lagann (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth), TTGL and STTGL (All mecha powered by Simon and Team Dai-Gurren)
Simon (Post-Super Granzeboma Destruction), Nia, Viral and Boota (Post-Apotheosis), Gurren Lagann (Post-Apotheosis) [Withstood Antispiral’s full power]
Antispiral (Kept pace with Simon in a fist fight)
Simon (Post-Apotheosis) [Faster than his previous self]
Agree: 7 (1 staff)
Disagree: 1 staff
Neutral: 1
This time the argument isn't about Simon's existence or even him crossing the multiverse, it's about what his Spiral Power did with the multiverse itself.
Feat
Simon integrates the multiverse itself and even merges with every possible version of himself (which does not just include alternate reality Simons, but even the past and future versions of himself)
Integration Mechanics
The way integration has been shown to work is not because of Simon's Lagann, but because of Simon's Spiral Power that forms these drills. As seen in Episode 13, Simon integrates Katra Leader via Gurren Lagann's drills (technically Simon's drills), and on the monitor, it shows the drills which are glowing a brighter green because they were formed by Spiral Power.
And in Episode 8, this same green glow appears as the drills protrude around Gurren Lagann's body.
And to further prove that it's Spiral Power, which is used to integrate, and not because of the mech, is the fact that Kittan's King Kittan isn't a Core Machine (or Lagann-type Gunmen), and it still integrated a drill to its arm to make it fully functional.
To summarize, the Spiral Energy has to grab the objects in question that the user wants to integrate. This means that in order for Simon to integrate the multiverse AND his past and future selves, his Spiral Energy has to actually traverse the entire structure and points in time where his other selves are to be able to integrate and merge with them in the first place.
Edit: To further corroborate that Simon used his Spiral Power to integrate the multiverse, he was shown and stated to use his Core Drill when doing it; the Core Drill being a conduit for Spiral Power, and has been used to release it before. Even in the clip of the episode, a green glow is emitted from Simon’s hand
New edit: This statement from Work Soul (Gurren Lagann movie guidebook) also suggests that Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is a product of the multiverse by the activation of Super Spiral Power. Basically the multiverse is Simon’s weapon because of his Super Spiral Power, which would further support the way the multiverse was integrated
Regarding Gurren Lagann's Time Travel Mechanics
Time traveling has been done a couple of times via a technique and attack, but do you know what these both have in common? The fact that they are performed by manipulating multidimensional probability.
Random Schrodinger Warp
The Random Schrödinger Warp is a technique in which Ashtanga enter probability space and shift up and down the time-axis by manipulating multi-dimensional probability fluctuations. In this state, the Ashtanga exist everywhere along the local space-time axis simultaneously in a state of uncertainty, hence the Schrodinger part of the name. In this state, the Ashtanga exist in innumerable places simultaneously in space-time and multiple dimensions
Possible Space-Time Axis Simultaneous Fire
This is an attack that Lordgenome developed in order to battle against the Random Schrodinger Warp. It works by detecting enemies throughout time itself and firing probability fluctuating bullets in order to be able to reach the enemy hiding throughout multiple points of the near past and future.
With these techniques, the mechanics of time travel has been established. Manipulating probability is needed to perform time travel
A Commonly Argued Feat
Back to Simon's feat, there is nothing that states that he is manipulating probability so that his Spiral Power can traverse the multiverse, and same to himself traveling throughout the multiverse in order to save his friends from the trapped multiverse. Simon doesn't travel to just alternate realities; he also travels to the future of a universe that Yoko was trapped in, which was previously established a year ago in a previous attempt at upgrading TTGL. This should actually be a supporting feat, as in this instance, Simon also does not alter probability to travel through time, he literally just flies to that point, which can be backed up by his Spiral Power also being able to travel to the past and future.
Supporting Argument
Time travel has been previously established as needing probability manipulation to perform. Simon was stated to break through the walls of the multiverse, and he perceives those universes' past, present and future all at once, ie viewing those universes as the entire space-time continuum. Plus, through the activation of a far superior version of Spiral Power, Super Spiral Power, Simon is now capable of viewing said universes, so it isn't the use of an already existing hax he has. Super Spiral Power gave him an immense upgrade for him to see the universes' past and future. The universes didn't just come crashing down to appear in front of him, it's trying to portray that he sees it all now.
Conclusion
These are the final reasons on why I believe TTGL God tiers should be rated in speed as Immeasurable.
If this is accepted, I will obviously make a scaling chain of God tier speed, and if not I honest to God give up
Who Would it Scale to?
Simon (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth) [Same as before, except now has infinite reserves of Spiral Power]
Team Dai-Gurren (Post Multiverse Labyrinth) [Nia, Yoko, Viral, Lordgenome, Boota] {Were all given the same power as Simon}
Gurren Lagann (Post-Multiverse Labyrinth), TTGL and STTGL (All mecha powered by Simon and Team Dai-Gurren)
Simon (Post-Super Granzeboma Destruction), Nia, Viral and Boota (Post-Apotheosis), Gurren Lagann (Post-Apotheosis) [Withstood Antispiral’s full power]
Antispiral (Kept pace with Simon in a fist fight)
Simon (Post-Apotheosis) [Faster than his previous self]
Agree: 7 (1 staff)
Disagree: 1 staff
Neutral: 1
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