Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann: Immeasurable Speed

[BluudyManikin777]

I believe the god tiers to be Immeasurable this is why

Simon, after integrating the Multiverse with himself is comparable to The Anti-Spiral, who’s stated to transcended time and space, Blue Text “Simon's greatest enemy is this universe itself.The greatest, strongest, and most fearsome enemy that attempts to eradicate all creatures with Spiral power. Even before Simon and his comrades, numerous Spiral warriors have challenged the Anti-Spiral and been buried. Its form has no discernible substance, has capability to lightly transcend time and space, affects the multiple-dimensions. It is truly an entity that can be called "the universe" itself."”(this isn’t the reason, it’s just a supporting reason). Simon traversed the Multiverse to gather all the members of Team Dai-Gurren. He traveled to alternate universes (not the reason yet). But not only did he do that, he also went to a different point in time in said universe. As we are shown, Simon integrated the Multiverse from an alternate reality, albeit during a period in time when he was still a teen, rather than an adult. He then traveled to an alternate universe where Yoko was. But, this version of her is an adult, as we also see the alternate versions of her students. So this proves that Simon not only traveled to alternate realities, but also the specific point in time where and when their consciousness is located

Agree: 2 (Risinglons, N_Kardashev)
Disagree: 4 (Planck69, Emirp sumitpo, DarkDragonMedeus, Rez)
Neutral: 1 (GreatIskandar14045)

* too lazy to update *

 

[Planck69]

Why is this not time travel?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I agree with Planck, this kinda needs to be proven that he had travelled via sheer speed alone and not with hax of any sort. In other words, it needs more context to immeasurable, otherwise it's just time travel

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I do not think this qualifies as Immeasurable speed but just time travel and dimensional travel

 

[RisingIons]

Weren't anti-spirals ships casually travelling up and down the time axis of higher dimensional space? And the crew had to attack at every point in time simultaneously to hit them?

 

[N_Kardashev]

I think we physically see him fly and do just that, through all the universes

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Weren't anti-spirals ships casually travelling up and down the time axis of higher dimensional space? And the crew had to attack at every point in time simultaneously to hit them?

Yeah, they were stated to shift throughout the time axis, moving up and down throughout it. And Simon Post-Multiverse Labyrinth should be far superior to them, in literally every way

 

[RisingIons]

Yeah, they were stated to shift throughout the time axis, moving up and down throughout it. And Simon Post-Multiverse Labyrinth should be far superior to them, in literally every way

The ships were stated to be altering something multidimensional probability which is why they were shifting up and down the dimensional time axis, but Anti-Spiral was the embodiment of this entire multidimensional super spiral space and he was doing all of this passively.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

The ships were stated to be altering something multidimensional probability which is why they were shifting up and down the dimensional time axis, but Anti-Spiral was the embodiment of this entire multidimensional super spiral space and he was doing all of this passively.

Actually, the Super Spiral Universe is the pocket reality created by Simon, you mean The Anti-Spiral's Universe. And he isn't the embodiment of said universe, but his existence is directly tied to it, and manipulates it according to his every whim. It's sort of like they're both their own thing, but they need each other to exist type shit. But yes, he does control the probability of the universe by a mere whim

 

[BluudyManikin777]

bump

 

[GreatIskandar14045]

It's sheer speed in-context, not just time travel/dimensional travel. However, I don't think it's enough for Immeasurable speed.

I'm not interested for this stuffs either so I'll be neutral here.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

It seems to be sheer speed, since he just flies, and gets to other universes, and a different point in time of said universe. Although, I feel like that would be the use of the "style over substance fallacy". But at best, this would warrant a possibly Immeasurable rating instead of straight up, via many statements saying the characters in question transcend time and space, and them being far superior to the Ashtanga, who can shift up and down throughout the time axis

 

[Rez]

Any sort of time travel shouldn't give immeasurable speed so disagree

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Any sort of time travel shouldn't give immeasurable speed so disagree

I mean... time travel is one of the things that literally gives Immeasurable at all. It's about the context, whether the character in question moves via sheer movement or with hax

 

[RisingIons]

Actually, the Super Spiral Universe is the pocket reality created by Simon, you mean The Anti-Spiral's Universe. And he isn't the embodiment of said universe, but his existence is directly tied to it, and manipulates it according to his every whim. It's sort of like they're both their own thing, but they need each other to exist type shit. But yes, he does control the probability of the universe by a mere whim

Addressing the OP


Addressing this point. Lord Genome stated the enemy is the universe itself. Killing Anti-Spiral = universe destroyed.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Any sort of time travel shouldn't give immeasurable speed so disagree

Thats like saying traveling any physical distance shouldn't give speed.

In case of time travel depends on how it is done....but immeasurable requires travel in time obviously as a prerequisite.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Addressing the OP

Traveling to a universe with different dimensional axes isn’t enough for Immeasurable, and still counts as Dimensional Travel

 

[RisingIons]

Traveling to a universe with different dimensional axes isn’t enough for Immeasurable, and still counts as Dimensional Travel

“Being able to casually roam around freely across linear time qualifies for immeasurable speed. However, traveling to different time periods through movement is a common feat in fiction that often leads to inconsistencies and has been done via FTL travel or running laps around the earth faster than it rotates. This can lead to characters being assigned an additional, independent, speed rating for the ability. This should preferably be evaluated case by case.”

The dimensional coordinates part of the scan isn’t the main focus. It’s stated in the show that as long as there is spiral energy, it can be traveled to, regardless of distance or dimension. That is how they attempted to fly to Nia in Anti-Spiral’s universe, and also how Simon could fly to each of their universes to rescue them, and back to the Anti-Spiral universe. That’s why Nia’s ring was glowing and why all their drill necklaces were glowing.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

bump

 

[RisingIons]

I do not think this qualifies as Immeasurable speed but just time travel and dimensional travel

Have you read the new posts

 

[Qawsedf234]

So this proves that Simon not only traveled to alternate realities, but also the specific point in time where and when their consciousness is located

That's not evidence of immeasurable speed. Just evidence that Simon can time travel. You would need to prove that they can fight at that speed or move without the use of a power they've previously shown to have access to.

I'm not for this change.

 

[RisingIons]

That's not evidence of immeasurable speed. Just evidence that Simon can time travel. You would need to prove that they can fight at that speed or move without the use of a power they've previously shown to have access to.

I'm not for this change.

I provided scans showing how it works

Addressing the OP

 

[Qawsedf234]

provided scans showing how it works

Yes, you provided scans that show they use an ability that lets them time travel to a specific point. Showing it is not Immeasurable combat speed but a time travel ability.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Another feat that would support an upgrade to Immeasurable is Simon’s integration of the entire Multiverse. This feat should give him a geometrical 11 dimensional body. And as we know from TTGL’s cosmology, the 11th dimension is time, since the verse runs on a 10 + 1 dimensional reality. It wouldn’t be a stretch to say that they can move through linear time with movement, considering how the characters are 11 dimensional in existence and power

 

[Qawsedf234]

This feat should give him a geometrical 11 dimensional body.

That's just Higher Dimensional Existence. Which isn't a hard justification for Immeasurable speed.

It wouldn’t be a stretch to say that they can move through linear time with movement

You need a statement or feat to get the ratings. They have neither. Which is why it was removed in the first place.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

That's just Higher Dimensional Existence. Which isn't a hard justification for Immeasurable speed.

You need a statement or feat to get the ratings. They have neither. Which is why it was removed in the first place.

My argument isn’t them JUST having 11 dimensional existence, it’s that they have that, PLUS the 11th dimension of TTGL being the time dimension

 

[Qawsedf234]

PLUS the 11th dimension of TTGL being the time dimension

Which isn't enough for the rating. You need a showing of them actually travelling through time or fighting through time. As an example this is D&D Thanatos' old speed rating

• Speed: Infinite, possibly Immeasurable (Immortals are beyond time and are utterly immune to spells like timestop, even when cast by stronger beings. Immortal level combat takes place in no time at all. Capable of time travel, but its unknown if its due to magic or just raw speed)

They are 5-D beings in a universe with an explicit 4th Dimensional time axis. But they still did not have a Immeasurable rating until a later CRT found more feats for their current rating

• Speed: Immeasurable (Immortals can move through the Emerald River, the physically embodiment of time with extreme ease. Immortals are beyond time and are utterly immune to spells like timestop, even when cast by stronger beings. Immortal level combat takes place in no time at all.)

They can fight, dive through, and freely move forwards and backwards through time without a power to do stuff. Its just their nature and raw speed inherit to their type of being.

Simon has none of that. He has abilities that let him time travel or attack certain points through time, but he cannot do so under his own power to a point he does not know about.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

I don’t get that at all. Why is a character’s existence having a certain number of dimensions (which happens to be the same amount of dimensions time has) not count for Immeasurable?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

I just personally think having the exact same number of dimensions as time itself should be immeasurable. The only way where I think that wouldn’t be the case is if the dimension above, let’s say, the 4th dimension, which is time, is 5th dimensional, and is a spatial dimension, and above that dimension is a temporal dimension, which means the speed can still be measurable, even though they exist beyond a temporal dimension, since there’s another one beyond them, and they exist in a spatial dimension

 

[Qawsedf234]

Why is a character’s existence having a certain number of dimensions (which happens to be the same amount of dimensions time has) not count for Immeasurable?

Because if they don't showcase the ability to freely move along its axis then they can't get a rating. You can be High 1-B and have super sonic+ speed. Infinite and Immeasurable require a showing or a hard statement to get.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

You can be High 1-B and have super sonic+ speed

But the reason that’s even possible is because there can be infinite amounts of spatial dimensions, without any of the dimensions, within the High 1-B range, being a temporal dimension (personally, I’ve never seen a cosmology like that, but still, it can happen)

 

[Planck69]

Just having a certain number of dimensions isn't at all proof of Immeasurable speed. Qawdsef is right on that.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Just having a certain number of dimensions isn't at all proof of Immeasurable speed. Qawdsef is right on that.

Omg… I know that having a certain amount of dimensions isn’t automatically Immeasurable, we all know that. It’s about d/t being unable to be found, because time is out of the question to find, and it has to be a temporal dimension, and not just a higher spatial dimension. I KNOW. But what I’m saying is Simon and other characters in the verse who are 11 dimensional, have the exact same dimensions as the temporal dimension. And the example he used as to why this shouldn’t be accepted isn’t good enough for me to believe that having the exact same dimensions as a temporal dimension isn’t Immeasurable. That example used a character that was an entire dimension above the temporal dimension, because for all I know, the dimension above that time dimension is a spatial one, and there’s still another temporal dimension above THAT dimension. It isn’t the same thing as a character having the exact same dimensions as the temporal dimension

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Okay, I really want an actual explanation on why having the exact same amount of dimensions as the temporal dimension of the verse, doesn’t count as Immeasurable. I don’t just want other profiles as an example

 

[Qawsedf234]

Okay, I really want an actual explanation on why having the exact same amount of dimensions as the temporal dimension of the verse, doesn’t count as Immeasurable.

Because you need a feat or hard showing to get the rating. Not an assumption based on something.

 

[Planck69]

Okay, I really want an actual explanation on why having the exact same amount of dimensions as the temporal dimension of the verse, doesn’t count as Immeasurable. I don’t just want other profiles as an example

Probably cause you need a feat for it. Which this isn't. At all.

 

[RisingIons]

Yes, you provided scans that show they use an ability that lets them time travel to a specific point. Showing it is not Immeasurable combat speed but a time travel ability.

I wouldn't say its time travel, it just gives you the ability to travel to someone/something that you recognize. Also this is for combat speed?

Yes, you provided scans that show they use an ability that lets them time travel to a specific point. Showing it is not Immeasurable combat speed but a time travel ability.

I get what you’re saying. Why couldn’t it be immeasurable with x ability? Also how is it time travel

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Probably cause you need a feat for it. Which this isn't. At all.

That still doesn’t answer my question. Why doesn’t a character having the same amount of dimensions as the temporal dimension, count as Immeasurable?

 

[Planck69]

Because that's just a higher size and more directions to move in. You can be Subsonic and move across 420 dimensions.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Because that's just a higher size and more directions to move in. You can be Subsonic and move across 420 dimensions.

But the 11th dimension is time, Simon has 11 dimensional existence upon integrating the Multiverse with his existence. Simon having this dimensionality should have immeasurable, because the 11th dimension is literally temporal