TTGL Acausality type 5 and Imme atack speed revision

[Agnaa]

Then what should moving through time while simultaneously attacking an enemy be counted as?

The moving portion would either be rapidly activated time travel, or time manipulation that makes you go through time at a different rate. While it could be achieved with Immeasurable speed, that grants a lot of other qualities (i.e. immunity to passives) which aren't necessarily true, and would require more evidence to be taken as true. Attacking an enemy at the same time would be having attacks which can reach throughout time; which is just kind of a range feat.

As said above the "existing at multiple points in time" thing sounds like multilocation and/or acausality type 3.

Time travel is as simple as going from point a to point b in time, but being able to act and react while shifting through time shouldn’t be considered hax, because then the downplay gets to a ridiculous point when you say it requires hax to move your arms or legs in a different dimensional axis

I don't really understand your point here. I'm not saying that being able to act while time traveling is hax.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Attacking an enemy at the same time would be having attacks which can reach throughout time; which is just kind of a range feat.

So moving your limbs while in time is just range, and the speed is just completely unaccounted for?
So, then if you’re not saying it’s hax, then moving your body parts while existing in time should be a natural thing, and therefore Immeasurable?

 

[Agnaa]

I am currently moving through time, and moving my limbs. That is not immeasurable speed.

A character who is in a time machine that works by making their time flow backwards would not get immeasurable speed for moving their limbs.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

I am currently moving through time, and moving my limbs. That is not immeasurable speed.

A character who is in a time machine that works by making their time flow backwards would not get immeasurable speed for moving their limbs.

Yeah, but this isn’t a time machine, it’s a being that can react to situations like us. So a character moves through the time axis, that’s time travel, whatever, but what about launching an attack? Does it require hax to launch an attack? If not, then isn’t there obviously a reaction time to attacking? What would the reaction speed be rated as? Immeasurable, the regular speed formula can’t be applied, because their distance is literally time.

Look, I’m not trying to argue Immeasurable for regular statistics, just Immeasurable via their Random Schrödinger Warp, because that’s how they’re able to move through the time axis, which is done by probability manipulation

 

[BluudyManikin777]

To sum it up, my argument is that yes, they use a power to get into the time axis, but from then on, the rest is normal movement

 

[Agnaa]

Yeah, but this isn’t a time machine, it’s a being that can react to situations like us. So a character moves through the time axis, that’s time travel, whatever, but what about launching an attack? Does it require hax to launch an attack? If not, then isn’t there obviously a reaction time to attacking? What would the reaction speed be rated as? Immeasurable, the regular speed formula can’t be applied, because their distance is literally time.

Ahh that's what you mean.

Launching an attack requires knowledge of where the target is, range that covers the target, and the ability for the attack to reach.

Given how the lasers seemingly went into the same sort of holes in reality that were entered when the other mech began moving through time earlier, I'd expect that the targeting is due to sensors that can see across time (which is very explicitly established), and the ability for the attack to reach was done through a time travel ability (as visually implied).

Look, I’m not trying to argue Immeasurable for regular statistics, just Immeasurable via their Random Schrödinger Warp, because that’s how they’re able to move through the time axis, which is done by probability manipulation

It kinda sounded like you were arguing for more than that:

I also wanna make another point about how Simon also used his Spiral Energy for lasers, and being able to run away and dodge Antispiral’s own lasers which also move at the same speeds, meaning his other speed stats should scale to his attack speed

 

[BluudyManikin777]

It kinda sounded like you were arguing for more than that:

The reply you referred to below was for Simon, I’m talking about a different character

Launching an attack requires knowledge of where the target is, range that covers the target, and the ability for the attack to reach.

Yeah, but then it also requires a reaction to even launch the attack in the first place.
So Ashtanga use an ability to get into the time axis, but when they actually are there, the rest is just regular movement at that point

 

[Agnaa]

Yeah, but then it also requires a reaction to even launch the attack in the first place.
So Ashtanga use an ability to get into the time axis, but when they actually are there, the rest is just regular movement at that point

The reaction can be done at ordinary human speeds, if you can access the knowledge of where to target outside of ordinary perception, such as with scanners.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

The reaction can be done at ordinary human speeds, if you can access the knowledge of where to target outside of ordinary perception, such as with scanners.

It could be, but I’m not saying it should apply to their regular speed stats, just when they use the Random Schrödinger Warp, because even if it’s done with their same speed, the speed formula still doesn’t apply to them (while in the time axis of course). There are characters that get the rating that also specify that it’s only when they’re in the time axis, or when they do a specific ability to get that rating on a technicality. And while a lot of characters could get that same statistic, but don’t, I think the stat can be labeled onto those who apply this speed into actual combat, rather than just using time travel to get to a different time period

 

[Agnaa]

I think it's bad and misleading to give characters Immeasurable speed just because they have used time travel abilities while fighting. That's just not something we tend to do with time travel powers.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

I think it's bad and misleading to give characters Immeasurable speed just because they have used time travel abilities while fighting. That's just not something we tend to do with time travel powers.

No I know, that’s why I propose giving the regular statistics, but still put Immeasurable while they’re in the time axis.
So it would go something like “Speed: Normal Human, Immeasurable via insert ability use to get into the time axis”. In an actual battle, the stat would actually apply, rather than it just being there because it can be. When using their time travel ability, their attacks while in the time axis are still Immeasurable

 

[Agnaa]

I know what you mean, but I think doing that to any extent is weird.

I don't think Frisk, The Gray Boy, and Risuka Mizukura should get Immeasurable with their abilities, I think that sorta thing's misleading.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

I know what you mean, but I think doing that to any extent is weird.

I don't think Frisk, The Gray Boy, and Risuka Mizukura should get Immeasurable with their abilities, I think that sorta thing's misleading.

Honestly, it’s only misleading to those who don’t care to actually read the profile or if the profile is poorly made. If you want, I can (and am genuinely willing to) write up a justification that makes it clear that it doesn’t apply to their regular statistics, even though I still think “normal human, immeasurable via insert special technique” should be enough

 

[Agnaa]

Yeah but I think we should make things clear. Abilities that let characters go back in time aren't speed amps, but indexing it like that makes it seem like one.

The closest thing I think we have on the site is Misogi Kumagawa (a character who can make his time nonexistent to perform actions instantly) and even then we took care to call it "Pseudo-Time Stop" instead of just saying "Infinite with All Fiction".

Sure, someone reading the profile closely could get the right idea, but I think there's too high of a risk of people getting the wrong idea.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

Yeah but I think we should make things clear. Abilities that let characters go back in time aren't speed amps, but indexing it like that makes it seem like one.

Yes, I know it isn’t a speed amp, I could write something like “Random Schrödinger Warp teleports the Ashtanga into the time axis, allowing them to attack opponents as they exist throughout time.”

The closest thing I think we have on the site is Misogi Kumagawa (a character who can make his time nonexistent to perform actions instantly) and even then we took care to call it "Pseudo-Time Stop" instead of just saying "Infinite with All Fiction".

Time stop or even pseudo-time stop can’t even be considered Infinite because of how infinite speed still requires a timeframe to do stuff, even an infinitesimal time frame. That isn’t something that can be a speed stat, that’s something that CAN’T, unlike the one we’re discussing

Sure, someone reading the profile closely could get the right idea, but I think there's too high of a risk of people getting the wrong idea.

There are a lot of things that are written in the right way, but are still misunderstood. That’s why we have threads, to clarify further if someone has like any question about it. There are already a lot of people getting the wrong idea when looking at the pages, it’s nothing new, it isn’t the wikis fault, sometimes it’s genuinely on the one who’s reading them

 

[Agnaa]

Yes, I know it isn’t a speed amp, I could write something like “Random Schrödinger Warp teleports the Ashtanga into the time axis, allowing them to attack opponents as they exist throughout time.”

That sounds like we're getting somewhere, but "throughout" sounds a bit more all-encompassing than I'd like.

I'd prefer something like “Random Schrödinger Warp teleports the Ashtanga into the time axis, allowing them to attack opponents from multiple points in time.”

 

[BluudyManikin777]

I'd prefer something like “Random Schrödinger Warp teleports the Ashtanga into the time axis, allowing them to attack opponents from multiple points in time.”

I can do that, it sounds better

 

[Agnaa]

Cool.

Well, while I'd prefer to not have an Immeasurable speed rating written alongside it, I won't oppose it too strongly unless it gets misinterpreted in threads because of that rating (i.e. with people thinking that it's an amp to Immeasurable speed). If that happens, I'd insist on the rating being removed, and just the explanation left.

 

[BluudyManikin777]

i haven’t created a complete profile for Ashtanga in my sandbox, at least this rating has been accepted.
But now for the other character to be argued Immeasurable; Simon.
@Qawsedf234 agrees with Simon having Immeasurable attack speed via Simon. I agree as well, because as we can see from the scene where he’s about to fire them, the cannon’s glow green, meaning that it was his Spiral Power that allowed him to send it flying that fast

 

[Agnaa]

As I said, I think them going into sorts of holes in reality implies time travel through an ability rather than raw speed. I'd also argue that the fact that they travelled a notable distance before going into those holes supports that; are we supposed to expect that they were merely MFTL+ until they'd travelled many light years, after which they suddenly became Immeasurable?

 

[BluudyManikin777]

As I said, I think them going into sorts of holes in reality implies time travel through an ability rather than raw speed. I'd also argue that the fact that they travelled a notable distance before going into those holes supports that; are we supposed to expect that they were merely MFTL+ until they'd travelled many light years, after which they suddenly became Immeasurable?

That’s understandable, I agree it should stay mftl+