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Yeah
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TTGL Acausality type 5 and Imme atack speed revision
- Thread starter Barbar01
- Start date
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Antispiral
Antispiral (アンチスパイラル, Anchisupairaru?), also known as Anti-Spiral King or Anti-Spiral Leader, is the leader and collective consciousness of the Anti-Spiral race and the true antagonist of Tengen Toppa Gurren-Lagann. He appeared as a humanoid silhouette of fluctuating, abstract matter, and his...
vsbattles.fandom.com
The rating was supposed to go to Simon
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bump
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bump
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- #127
dude, you were going to remove imme speed from anti spiral's profile and add it to simon, but it's still not added to simon's profile.
(
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- #129
what's wrong
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tl;dr All scans had bad translations, so I don't trust them. But the one for Immeasurable speed is so low-quality I can't retranslate it myself.
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Was that disagreement for the Acausality type 5? I agreed with the no type 5 thing for that reasoning, the translation kinda sucks and it also isn’t enough for type 5 anyway
Tbh, there is no need for the guidebooks for the Immeasurable attack speed thing. Here’s a clip from the anime where Simon uses his Spiral Energy to fire probability fluctuating bullets through the past and future.
I also wanna make another point about how Simon also used his Spiral Energy for lasers, and being able to run away and dodge Antispiral’s own lasers which also move at the same speeds, meaning his other speed stats should scale to his attack speed
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Yeah, but it makes me suspicious of other translations.
Being able to have attacks reach different points of time =/= immeasurable speed. It can be done through time travel/portals, and here it seems to be, since those lasers all seem to create holes in reality which they disappear into.
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- #134
No, the bullets are literally travelling to the future and the past at their pure speed, and this is explained in the data books. there is no portal.
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The data book statement with the translation you've provided doesn't say anything indicating that.
Also, the fact that both the show and the data book, with the translation shown, indicate that it can only travel into the near future/past implies against Immeasurable, imo. Something that can just go to the past/future through speed shouldn't have that sort of limitation, it could just keep traveling backwards/forwards in time, and arrive any time, no matter how far back/forward, instantly.
Also, the fact that both the show and the data book, with the translation shown, indicate that it can only travel into the near future/past implies against Immeasurable, imo. Something that can just go to the past/future through speed shouldn't have that sort of limitation, it could just keep traveling backwards/forwards in time, and arrive any time, no matter how far back/forward, instantly.
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He doesn't say he has such a limitation. You are missing the rest of the argument.
Can any type of speed attack the near future and the near past? It does not only do this in a single dimension, but also in the infinite time dimensions of the universe. (I guess I don't need to tell you that the universe has infinite number space and time dimensions.)
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I don't understand why you think that's implying that it's done through sheer speed.
"It's a projectile" does not mean "It can travel through time through sheer speed".
This feels like you're debunking your own point as soon as you bring it up.
You're saying that "in all time and space dimensions" implies that it's covering the entirety of those dimensions, not just the parts nearby, but you then go on to say that "all time and space dimensions" is just referring to how the series has many dimensions.
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That’s also what I want to explain; how it’s not a use of time travel.
First off, here’s a clip of an Ashtanga (the enemy that Simon and co. were fighting against) disappearing into the time axis. Not going to a different point in time, but retreating to the axis of time itself, as Lordgenome explains that they are shifting throughout the time “axis” and not just time.
In the clip I showed previously, which is Simon sending bullets throughout past and future, the portals have a red background, which is the same color as when the Ashtanga was retreating to time. It might also be portal creation, but you also have to account for the fact that the bullets, when entering the time axis, still have to travel the rest of the distance to actually hit the opponent.
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You didn't link the Ashtanga clip in that post.
And yeah, I'd probably just argue that that's still portal creation, possibly with a wonky translation. idk why "Bullets need to travel the distance" would cause an issue with that.
And yeah, I'd probably just argue that that's still portal creation, possibly with a wonky translation. idk why "Bullets need to travel the distance" would cause an issue with that.
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Sorry, I was editing the specific part I wanted to hyperlink and forgot. You can refresh, it’s there now
Yes, I didn’t deny the likeliness of it also being portal creation, but the point is that the bullet travelled to the time axis where that Ashtanga retreated to, and, while in the time axis, still needs to travel the distance to get to the opponent
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So if the translation is correct or at least pretty much what it means, does it qualify for Immeasurable?
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Had a listen, and it uses "時間軸", while that can be used for "time axis" (say, the axis in a graph representing time), it can also be used for "timeline", both in a cosmological sense and a colloquial sense (i.e. "what's the timeline for this policy being implemented").
That doesn't sound like they're moving to some separate disjointed "time axis place" that the bullets would have to travel through to hit them. It just sounds like language for traveling through time. Attacking as they move through the timeline seems like it could be done with just ordinary time travel, not time travel through sheer speed.
You're trying to say it qualifies because the "time axis" must be something different from ordinary time, but I don't think that's implied.
That doesn't sound like they're moving to some separate disjointed "time axis place" that the bullets would have to travel through to hit them. It just sounds like language for traveling through time. Attacking as they move through the timeline seems like it could be done with just ordinary time travel, not time travel through sheer speed.
You're trying to say it qualifies because the "time axis" must be something different from ordinary time, but I don't think that's implied.
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I have reason to believe that "time axis" can be used.
Using the cosmology blog, the Isolated Universe where Antispiral resides in is an 11-dimensional universe, via being stated to be an oscillating space-time between the dimensional membranes of the 10th and 11th dimensions, meaning it has 10 dimensions of space and one of time. The fact that time is considered its own dimension validates the term "time axis" in this series. As Antispiral's creation, it would be reasonable to say that Ashtanga can literally move through the very axis that Antispiral exists in and manipulates with his every whim
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I just don't see why we'd take the interpretation of "Time is a separate dimension which these characters can travel through, without being in space at all", all because "It's a 10-D universe" and "They said a word that could mean 'time axis'".
That seems like a really huge stretch. Again, especially given the things which look like portals, and the seemingly local nature of that attack.
That seems like a really huge stretch. Again, especially given the things which look like portals, and the seemingly local nature of that attack.
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It is probably their visual interpretation. There are a lot of things in fiction that are visually inconsistent because sometimes the animators care more about making it visually pleasing, rather than make everything look 100% accurate.
Given the cosmology of this verse, time axis being the term is, more likely than not, right.
I just don't see how it is a "really huge stretch." There are a lot of huge stretches out there, but with the arguments provided, this qualifies as a huge stretch?
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It should also be worth noting that timeline is a term that's often times used in stories about time travel, or history and whatnot, especially when timeline doesn't need anything to do with dimensions. TTGL is not any of those things, it's literally a shounen anime about crazy people doing crazy things which just so happens to talk a lot about dimensions. Using the term "axis" when talking about dimensions is a more appropriate term than "timeline."
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- #148
No, what I mean is that it's more than just attacking the past and the future, it's doing it on all timelines.
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Yeah, that's probably a cooler flowery term to use, but when we're trying to figure out what's literally going on, I think it's enlightening to tell that the meaning is probably more along the lines of "They'll attack us while moving through the timeline", which does not necessitate time travel through sheer speed, and does not imply that they'd only exist in time and have no corresponding location in space.
Welp, agree to disagree then.
Doesn't matter, that can still be achieved through dimensional travel.
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I’m not saying that it’s cooler, my reasoning isn’t as simple as that. It’s closer to time axis than timeline because of how much more appropriate the term time axis is than timeline because of how frequently they talk about dimensions, especially with how TTGL referred to dimensional axes beforehand. A different set of dimensional axes being the 10th and 11th dimensions that the Isolated Universe, as an oscillating “space-time,” exists between. There is no reason to downplay it to merely “timeline” just for the sake of trying to lowball the interpretation, there are context clues that you could use to very reasonably argue “time axis” because of how they’ve already talked about “dimensional axes”
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Even if you say that the term has to be "time axis", that doesn't mean that "travelling through the time axis" implies "going into time and time alone and not being present in space at all". A claim like "He's at a different part of the time axis!" doesn't mean that such a being is completely absent from space.
I think going by "timeline" makes this more clear, but it's still true if you want to change the terminology.
I think going by "timeline" makes this more clear, but it's still true if you want to change the terminology.
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I think it would be more appropriate to use “time axis,” because of this verse using dimensional axes and whatnot, timeline doesn’t seem very fitting.
Anyways, back to the topic, another point that I’d like to bring up on how it isn’t time travel hax, is that Ashtanga, while in “time,” occupies multiple points in time, and the Spiral radar when looking for this one Ashtanga, detects it as numerous enemies. Time travel isn’t a power that covers people that can exist in multiple points in time at once, time travel is simply the use of going from point A to point B on the time axis
Anyways, back to the topic, another point that I’d like to bring up on how it isn’t time travel hax, is that Ashtanga, while in “time,” occupies multiple points in time, and the Spiral radar when looking for this one Ashtanga, detects it as numerous enemies. Time travel isn’t a power that covers people that can exist in multiple points in time at once, time travel is simply the use of going from point A to point B on the time axis
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- #153
You have no evidence to say it went through the portal
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Dimensional travel can be done without portals. Traveling to another universe is a speed feat, meaning the fact that the bullets can be sent to other universes doesn’t help with the Immeasurable argument
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Immeasurable speed also doesn't cover existing at multiple points in time (at least, it doesn't grant that any more than being immobile would). It seems like there's additional powers at play regardless.
The visuals sure look like that, plus portals aren't necessary, people can teleport to other dimensions, other periods of time, etc.
Vietthai96
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Existing at multiple points in time is either temporal omnipresent/multi-location or Acausality type 3. There are case that grant Immeasurable speed similar to this such as Solaris from Sonic, but that is because there is combat in play
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Yeah, in this scenario the Ashtanga are attacking SGGL as they shift along the time axis
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I guess you can count it as High Complex Multiversal Range in the Time Axis, but the fact that they’re able to attack their enemies while shifting throughout the time axis should be enough to count it. Like Viet said, some cases are granted Immeasurable because there’s also combat involved, and that it isn’t just simply moving to point A to point B on the time axis (if I’m understanding it correctly)
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I don't see why it should. It doesn't require or imply being able to time travel through sheer speed.
idk enough about other cases. Maybe they're wrong too, maybe they have far better context.
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Then what should moving through time while simultaneously attacking an enemy be counted as? Time travel is as simple as going from point a to point b in time, but being able to act and react while shifting through time shouldn’t be considered hax, because then the downplay gets to a ridiculous point when you say it requires hax to move your arms or legs in a different dimensional axis
