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dude, you were going to remove imme speed from anti spiral's profile and add it to simon, but it's still not added to simon's profile.
what's wrong
tl;dr All scans had bad translations, so I don't trust them. But the one for Immeasurable speed is so low-quality I can't retranslate it myself.
Was that disagreement for the Acausality type 5? I agreed with the no type 5 thing for that reasoning, the translation kinda sucks and it also isn’t enough for type 5 anyway
Tbh, there is no need for the guidebooks for the Immeasurable attack speed thing. Here’s a clip from the anime where Simon uses his Spiral Energy to fire probability fluctuating bullets through the past and future.
Yeah, but it makes me suspicious of other translations.
Being able to have attacks reach different points of time =/= immeasurable speed. It can be done through time travel/portals, and here it seems to be, since those lasers all seem to create holes in reality which they disappear into.
No, the bullets are literally travelling to the future and the past at their pure speed, and this is explained in the data books. there is no portal.
He doesn't say he has such a limitation. You are missing the rest of the argument.
Can any type of speed attack the near future and the near past? It does not only do this in a single dimension, but also in the infinite time dimensions of the universe. (I guess I don't need to tell you that the universe has infinite number space and time dimensions.)
I don't understand why you think that's implying that it's done through sheer speed.
This feels like you're debunking your own point as soon as you bring it up.
That’s also what I want to explain; how it’s not a use of time travel.
Sorry, I was editing the specific part I wanted to hyperlink and forgot. You can refresh, it’s there now
Yes, I didn’t deny the likeliness of it also being portal creation, but the point is that the bullet travelled to the time axis where that Ashtanga retreated to, and, while in the time axis, still needs to travel the distance to get to the opponent
So if the translation is correct or at least pretty much what it means, does it qualify for Immeasurable?
I have reason to believe that "time axis" can be used.
It is probably their visual interpretation. There are a lot of things in fiction that are visually inconsistent because sometimes the animators care more about making it visually pleasing, rather than make everything look 100% accurate.
Given the cosmology of this verse, time axis being the term is, more likely than not, right.
I just don't see how it is a "really huge stretch." There are a lot of huge stretches out there, but with the arguments provided, this qualifies as a huge stretch?
No, what I mean is that it's more than just attacking the past and the future, it's doing it on all timelines.
Yeah, that's probably a cooler flowery term to use, but when we're trying to figure out what's literally going on, I think it's enlightening to tell that the meaning is probably more along the lines of "They'll attack us while moving through the timeline", which does not necessitate time travel through sheer speed, and does not imply that they'd only exist in time and have no corresponding location in space.
Welp, agree to disagree then.
Doesn't matter, that can still be achieved through dimensional travel.
I’m not saying that it’s cooler, my reasoning isn’t as simple as that. It’s closer to time axis than timeline because of how much more appropriate the term time axis is than timeline because of how frequently they talk about dimensions, especially with how TTGL referred to dimensional axes beforehand. A different set of dimensional axes being the 10th and 11th dimensions that the Isolated Universe, as an oscillating “space-time,” exists between. There is no reason to downplay it to merely “timeline” just for the sake of trying to lowball the interpretation, there are context clues that you could use to very reasonably argue “time axis” because of how they’ve already talked about “dimensional axes”
You have no evidence to say it went through the portal
Dimensional travel can be done without portals. Traveling to another universe is a speed feat, meaning the fact that the bullets can be sent to other universes doesn’t help with the Immeasurable argument
Immeasurable speed also doesn't cover existing at multiple points in time (at least, it doesn't grant that any more than being immobile would). It seems like there's additional powers at play regardless.
The visuals sure look like that, plus portals aren't necessary, people can teleport to other dimensions, other periods of time, etc.
Yeah, in this scenario the Ashtanga are attacking SGGL as they shift along the time axis
I guess you can count it as High Complex Multiversal Range in the Time Axis, but the fact that they’re able to attack their enemies while shifting throughout the time axis should be enough to count it. Like Viet said, some cases are granted Immeasurable because there’s also combat involved, and that it isn’t just simply moving to point A to point B on the time axis (if I’m understanding it correctly)
I don't see why it should. It doesn't require or imply being able to time travel through sheer speed.
Then what should moving through time while simultaneously attacking an enemy be counted as? Time travel is as simple as going from point a to point b in time, but being able to act and react while shifting through time shouldn’t be considered hax, because then the downplay gets to a ridiculous point when you say it requires hax to move your arms or legs in a different dimensional axis
The moving portion would either be rapidly activated time travel, or time manipulation that makes you go through time at a different rate. While it could be achieved with Immeasurable speed, that grants a lot of other qualities (i.e. immunity to passives) which aren't necessarily true, and would require more evidence to be taken as true. Attacking an enemy at the same time would be having attacks which can reach throughout time; which is just kind of a range feat.
I don't really understand your point here. I'm not saying that being able to act while time traveling is hax.
So moving your limbs while in time is just range, and the speed is just completely unaccounted for?
