Immeasurable speed characters updating

[Antvasima]

Well, the purpose of this thread is to remove immeasurable speed from the characters that clearly do not qualify according to our current rules.

Can we please efficiently focus on that task instead of constantly derailing?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I wanted to ask, is the stuff about "tier 2 is technically immeasurable due to the nature of the feat" resolved?

Because that seems to be mainly an issue of differentiating what constitutes a feat as speed instead of AoE, or AoE instead of speed. Or has this been better defined already?

 

[Agnaa]

I wanted to ask, is the stuff about "tier 2 is technically immeasurable due to the nature of the feat" resolved?

Because that seems to be mainly an issue of differentiating what constitutes a feat as speed instead of AoE, or AoE instead of speed. Or has this been better defined already?

Think so, people just don't wanna give away Immeasurable that easily.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I see. Not sure I'll be able to keep good track of the thread even though I am interested, but I'll try.

 

[Ionliosite]

Can we please efficiently focus on that task instead of constantly derailing?

I mean, this is not derailing. We can't focus on chosing who has a valid Immeasurable justification if no one even agrees what counts as Immeasurable in the first place, hence we need that ironed first.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

I propose my list of requirements

1. Unbound by linear time

2. Travel + time + speed (case by case basis)

 

[Ionliosite]

EVERYONE gave a list of requirements, but considering they are all different, it's clear we aren't even sure what's Immeasurable anymore, and considering even the definition put on the Speed page has been doubted as being "case by case"...

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I would emphasize to focus on the main thing- Traversing time through speed alone like you were traversing through space.

Is hard for me to put it into words, but tier 2 and above shouldn't count off the mere fact that even if the AoE reaches forwards and backwards in time, it isn't made willingly. Like, they can destroy the entire timeline- But can they send the attack to implode from the future, activate in the past?

It feels awkward to find the right words, but it feels like the AoE is just a side effect of its own inherent power. So the ability shouldn't be awarded without showing conscious ability to make the attacks affect different points in time without having to implode everything between where you are and where the AoE reaches.

Not... sure if that makes any sense.

 

[Antvasima]

The definition is rather simple in my mind:

Transcending linear time in such a manner that you can treat it like a spatial dimension and move through it via speed alone. That's it.

There is an exception for verses in which time-travel can be achieved by simply travelling faster than light or similar though.

We should remove the ability from all the characters that do not fulfill this requirement as quickly as possible.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Transcending linear time in such a manner that you can treat it like a spatial dimension and move through it via speed alone. That's it.

The problem though is that this requirement isn’t really simple or clear. Me, Dragon himself and others here still don’t know what treating time as a spatial dimension 100% means.

 

[Executor_N0]

I think that In a simple way

Moving in a spatial dimension simply means going from spatial coordinate point A in space to spatial coordinate point B, be it going left to right, up or down, etc.

Doing the same with temporal dimensions would be doing that with temporal coordinates, that in a linear timeline would mean going from the past to future or future to past, and in non-linear (2 or more time axes) would be like moving between the "left and right" of time axes, like moving between different timelines.

 

[Antvasima]

Executor is correct. Thank you.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Okay so how would that be different from someone just moving through time with sheer movement then?

 

[Antvasima]

It is basically the same thing as far as I am aware, but genuinely transcending time would give an extra safeguard, so not verse mechanics, such as travelling through time above lightspeed, automatically grant it as well.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Is this dead? I'm just reappearing from gaming mancave right now and this couldn't be ignored. Blazblue and Guilty Gear's immeasurable speed right? I missed a lot. What even qualifies as immeasurable speed.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Is this dead? I'm just reappearing from gaming mancave right now and this couldn't be ignored. Blazblue and Guilty Gear's immeasurable speed right? I missed a lot. What even qualifies as immeasurable speed.

as of now

1. unbound by linear time

2. time travel via speed (case by case basis)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Here's a really good example of immeasurable speed:

Sonic Man (Archie Sonic turned into a robot by Eggman and Wily) moving through Flash Man's timestop explicitly through sheer speed.

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Here's a really good example of immeasurable speed:

Sonic Man (Archie Sonic turned into a robot by Eggman and Wily) moving through Flash Man's timestop explicitly through sheer speed.

I'm not sure if that is a good example. Wasn't it decided that movement during a timestop would just be resistance too timestop?

I think a good example would be: Medea whose physical and magical attacks hit the opponent before she even performs them

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Normally but this case is explicitly because he was, and I quote "too fast." Interviews with the creators back this up too.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

moving when time is stopped is Infinite speed actually (of course is only if u did it via speed alone)

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

My two main examples for Immeasurable speed is:

A: A character whose action has an effect before the action is even done.
Example: A character's punch hits an opponent before they throw the punch.

B. A character who can physically travel to anywhere and anywhen from everywhere and everywhen by their own power.
Example: A character that can travel 20 minutes to the past by sliding to left.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

i would personally also add unbound by linear time, u cant be more direct than that

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

i would personally also add unbound by linear time, u cant be more direct than that

This.

Especially for people who can use sheets speed to transcend space-time into higher dimensional worlds

 

[Iamunanimousinthat]

Unbound by linear time is too vague imo. It has to be backed up with feats.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

The only characters I know that have explicitly immeasurable speed feats attributed to speed instead of it just being some state of their body or whatever are Wally West and Pre-Crisis Superman. Well...and the aforementioned Chuck Norris fact but that's not a character on the wiki.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

The only characters I know that have explicitly immeasurable speed feats attributed to speed instead of it just being some state of their body or whatever are Wally West and Pre-Crisis Superman. Well...and the aforementioned Chuck Norris fact but that's not a character on the wiki.

which is why they have it as "xyz, immeasurable under xyz circumstances/xyz place/using xyz"

 

[Agnaa]

Here's a really good example of immeasurable speed:

Sonic Man (Archie Sonic turned into a robot by Eggman and Wily) moving through Flash Man's timestop explicitly through sheer speed.

How is that immeasurable? Moving through timestop is resistance to timestop or infinite speed. Never immeasurable.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Then Guilty Gear will definitely be back to MFTL+. There's no evidence that Yomotsuhirasaka is beyond linear time.

Blazblue, I don't think it'll change. It is beyond linear time because, well Boundary is beyond any parallel timelines and doesn't even have time within it.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Then Guilty Gear will definitely be back to MFTL+. There's no evidence that Yomotsuhirasaka is beyond linear time.

Blazblue, I don't think it'll change. It is beyond linear time because, well Boundary is beyond any parallel timelines and doesn't even have time within it.

if they only have immeasurable on that place then it should be

'xyz, immesurable on boundary"

 

[Agnaa]

Then Guilty Gear will definitely be back to MFTL+. There's no evidence that Yomotsuhirasaka is beyond linear time.

Blazblue, I don't think it'll change. It is beyond linear time because, well Boundary is beyond any parallel timelines and doesn't even have time within it.

Why would that put Blazblue at Immeasurable? I've been told that transcending a multiverse/not having time isn't enough.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Transcending a Multiverse into a higher world with sheer speed though should be plenty enough.

It should be even better than moving through linear time with sheer speed.

 

[Agnaa]

What the **** does "Transcending a multiverse into a higher world with sheer speed" mean? That's word salad.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

That's not enough and you need it by sheer speed? Huh. Then it's back to Infinite speed then.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

if they only have immeasurable on that place then it should be

'xyz, immesurable on boundary"

No the people that are immeasurable is because they were born and pretty chill in it.

 

[Agnaa]

No the people that are immeasurable is because they were born and pretty chill in it.

That sort of thing only counts if they maintain that speed outside of that realm.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

What the **** does "Transcending a multiverse into a higher world with sheer speed" mean? That's word salad.

Uh, exactly as it’s worded? Or to put it more simply

Going from a 4-D realm for example to a 5-D realm with sheer speed. Or 5-D to 6-D. 6-D to 7-D, etc. whatever the case is done with sheer speeds.

 

[Agnaa]

That sounds nonsensical and unquantifiable.

Getting higher AP via going fast is not a speed feat.

And if it's just a realm being accessed, that's unquantifiable, since we don't know how far apart they are in-verse or what sorts of requirements you need to meet to cross them.

On top of this, higher-D realms by default have no reason to require esoteric speed ratings.

 

[Antoniofer]

Kinda getting tired of this "transcending/unbounded by linear time" kind of description, it's kind of obvious that no one here has a clear idea of what Immeasurable speed should be.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

That sounds nonsensical and unquantifiable.

Getting higher AP via going fast is not a speed feat.

When...did I mention this?

And if it's just a realm being accessed, that's unquantifiable, since we don't know how far apart they are in-verse or what sorts of requirements you need to meet to cross them.

I’m not understanding this. If your reaching a higher dimensional world with sheer speed, why would things like Distance be required? It’s still transcending time and space and if anything it’s better than simply moving through time with sheer speed like our requirements seem to point out.

On top of this, higher-D realms by default have no reason to require esoteric speed ratings.

Just like moving through linear time with speed alone doesn’t, yet some here advocate for it require esoteric speeds on case by case basis’s?

And if anything the default should be the other way around, that you need to prove it isn’t isnt required.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Kinda getting tired of this "transcending/unbounded by linear time" kind of description, it's kind of obvious that no one here has a clear idea of what Immeasurable speed should be.

Yes and this is kind of why me and a few others suggested we have to a thread to discuss what immeasurable speed should actually be in the first place or else we can’t get the requirement for it set clearly.