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The Elder Scrolls Revisions (Big ones)

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Okay. Thank you for the summary.

And which members have accepted this so far?
 
Okay. It is probably fine to apply then, but I would much prefer if Ultima or Matthew can handle it, as they are the only members I know of with sufficiently indepth knowledge of the series.
 
It's better to wait a bit before applying the changes. Ultima and I have been talking on discord, and the gods' tiers may change. There's also the stuff with the low tiers that I have requested calcs for too.

Alduin and Dovahkiin's Low 2-C (which means all other Low 2-Cs as well) will also probably be removed regardless. And Alduin will likely get a world eating key.
 
Ogbunabali said:
It's better to wait a bit before applying the changes. Ultima and I have been talking on discord, and the gods' tiers may change. There's also the stuff with the low tiers that I have requested calcs for too.

Alduin and Dovahkiin's Low 2-C (which means all other Low 2-Cs as well) will also probably be removed regardless. And Alduin will likely get a world eating key.
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So does this mean they are getting a high 1-b?
 
Ogbunabali said:
It's better to wait a bit before applying the changes. Ultima and I have been talking on discord, and the gods' tiers may change. There's also the stuff with the low tiers that I have requested calcs for too.

Alduin and Dovahkiin's Low 2-C (which means all other Low 2-Cs as well) will also probably be removed regardless. And Alduin will likely get a world eating key.
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Okay. No problem. Thank you both for helping out.
 
either L2C or upgrade, i dont see anything that indicates that alduin somehow got weaker and lost his power somehow to not be on his world ending level
 
Here is my stand on the matter:
  • Jagar Tharn and the Eternal Champion should remain High 4-C because Jagar Tharn created a dimension with stars. I still see a justification for this. If not, I am content if both of them scale with Abnur Tharn (High 6-C)
  • The Vestige's should remain the same due to ESO stuffs that don't even end yet.
  • The Dovahkiin should remain the same due to the Vestige remaining the same.
  • All justifications in the current Low 2-C profiles involve Barbas' manifestation scaling from the Dovahkiin should be debated at another time.
  • The Jills should be knocked down to Unknown.
  • Vivec's justification involving his transcendence over linear time should be removed, same with his Immeasurable speed. I don't agree because ESO stuffs, and it does not make sense for Low 2-C person can't have immeasurable speed.
  • All characters who are currently High 8-C scaling off of Aela and the Companions being able to kill a Giant should be downgraded to the 9-B range. I am okay with this change.
  • Aka, Lorkhan, Magnus and the other Et'Ada should be upgraded to Low 1-A (No argument here)
  • Alduin, The Dovahkiin and Miraak should be High 1-B scaling to the Eight Divines and the Princes. (No argument here)
  • CHIM users like Vivec and Talos should be upgraded to High 1-A. (No argument here)
  • The Nerevarine's CHIM key should be removed. (No argument here)
Setsuna_tenma said:
Removing vivek Immesurable Speed in his Low 2C key.
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Vivec should stay the same in this regard. ESO stuffs

Setsuna_tenma said:
Removal of some of vestiges Low 2C feats.
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This should not change as well. ESO stuffs
 
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Antvasima said:
Are either of you willing and able to apply what has been accepted here please?
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I've been working on it for a bit, as you can see by this sandbox. I guess I can accelerate my pace.

I believe we also ought to discuss the lower-tiered parts of the verse, once that's done, but given how ancient this thread is, another one might be in order.
 
Thank you for helping out. It is appreciated.

I do not mind if you create a new thread, but you should probably note down all of the members who constructively helped out with this one, and then send a notification to them, after it has been created.
 
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A rather entertaining debate about whether Alduin really eats in the "literal" sense of the Gods. I have proof that you may have missed

The Leaper King is one of the few primordial spirits that can survive its bite. Implying that many of the Deities disappear into Alduin's mouth. Which is actually very significant, given the physiology of Etda.


"To which Alduin roared and laughed and said, "King of Leapers, you always bounce up to me around this time (for you are one of the only spirits that can last til my last bite) and shout, 'Wait!', but I never do and I will not now. Leap up to Hrothgaar's top and wait awhile longer in little dignity. The two bells have went 'Gong! Gong!' and that means the kalpa has turned.""
— The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga

During an attempt to dissuade the Time Dragon God from eating kalpa, the Leaper King also mentions that Alduin is one of the very first and last spirits. We recall that for the Nordic Pantheon, Alduin is both the Creator God and the God of the Apocalypse, since he simultaneously devours the world (not even leaving a time continuum), and at the same time observes the birth of a new world, coming the very first of all. It also means that other spirits that have fallen under his bite dissolve before the end of the cycle, and do not see the birth of the world.

"The Leaper Demon King knew all this was true but still he said, "Wait, first and last of spirits, the kalpa-turning is brought too soon and I can prove it! Look over there on top of Red Mountain. See the Greedy Man waving his arms?""
— The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga

This also goes along with the fact that other Gods (Even such as the Daedric Princes) fear Alduin and his return from sleep.


"And by turns the snow whale and the dirtbird told the story, and its details, and in his magnificence did Molag Bal know that this was indeed the dream-work of Mehrunes Dagon, his brother of razors, the only Prince who dared trouble the sleep of the dragon-eater, Alduin."
— The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga

In the Nordic pantheon, Alduin and Talos are considered twilight gods that do not need temples - when they appear, there will be no point in building them, much less using them - another waste of time, since their appearance will mark the end of the kalpa, the end of the cycle. It is understood that only Talos will be able to pass unharmed into the next kalpa, while the rest of the Nord Gods are devoured by Alduin, completing the cycle of creation.

"The Twilight Gods:
The Twilight Gods need no temples– when they show up, there won’t be any reason to build them, much less use them – another waste of time. That said, Nords do venerate them, as they always venerate the cycles of things, and especially the Last War where they will show their final, best worth.

The Dragon, Alduin - Alduin is venerated on the winter solstice by ceremonies at ancient Dragon Cult temples, where offerings are made to keep him asleep for one more year. Alduin is also the source of many common superstitious practices before any event of significance.
The Dragonborn God, Talos - Talos’ totem is the newest, but is everywhere – he is the Dragonborn Conquering Son, the first new god of this cycle, whose power is consequently unknown, so the Nords bless nearly everything with his totem, since he might very well be the god of it now, too. Yes, as first of the Twilight Gods, this practice might seem contradictory, but that’s only because, of all the gods, he will be the one that survives in whole into the next cycle."
— The Nords' Totemic Religion
 
Just a note that Ultima has tried to clean up our Elder Scrolls pages, as I requested.
 
About the 8-B calc given in the OP for the Eternal Champion, pretty sure it's wrong. Don't think that matters for any of the proposed changes after the debate, though, just pointing it out.

Vaporization is meant to be done with volume, not mass, so the final result was multiplied by over three times what it would have originally been. With volume, the result would be 31'621'450'000 Joules, which is High 8-C+. I guess I'll contact a calc member to get that checked out again.
 
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Antvasima said:
What do you think
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I did attempt to keep the fanart to a minimum, given the relatively recent concerns regarding it, but if, due to the nature of those characters, it is deemed acceptable, then I'd be happy to add it back (With proper credit to the artists, of course)

Ricsi-viragosi said:
About the 8-B calc given in the OP for the Eternal Champion., pretty sure it's wrong. Don't think that matters for any of the proposed changes after the debate, though, just pointing it out
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That's a real oof, if so. I suppose I can include that as a footnote in the upcoming thread about the low-tiers.
 
Matthew_Schroeder said:
I don't think the fanart needed to be deleted, beats having low-res stained glass pictures from a 2006 game in half the profiles.
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Ultima_Reality said:
I did attempt to keep the fanart to a minimum, given the relatively recent concerns regarding it, but if, due to the nature of those characters, it is deemed acceptable, then I'd be happy to add it back (With proper credit to the artists, of course)
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@Agnaa

Do you think that restoring the fanart images seems acceptable according to our current rules?

Or can somebody else inspect the following thread for further information please?

 
Just a note that I personally would not mind using fan art for the Elder Scrolls deities as long as it is based on their in-canon visual depictions.
 
The majority opinion was to use official art when it's good, but that fanart is a viable option if the official art is bad.

Just a note that I personally would not mind using fan art for the Elder Scrolls deities as long as it is based on their in-canon visual depictions.

Many other cases, such as when fanart isn't based on canonical descriptions/depictions, did not reach an adequate consensus.
 
Agnaa said:
The majority opinion was to use official art when it's good, but that fanart is a viable option if the official art is bad.
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The problem is that a lot of Elder Scrolls deities only appear through in-game statues or paintings so fanart is the only option. With some of them like Mephala or the Tribunal we do actually have solid official depictions.
 
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