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The Elder Scrolls Revisions (Big ones)

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Campo1uc said:
A rather entertaining debate about whether Alduin really eats in the "literal" sense of the Gods. I have proof that you may have missed

The Leaper King is one of the few primordial spirits that can survive its bite. Implying that many of the Deities disappear into Alduin's mouth. Which is actually very significant, given the physiology of Etda.


"To which Alduin roared and laughed and said, "King of Leapers, you always bounce up to me around this time (for you are one of the only spirits that can last til my last bite) and shout, 'Wait!', but I never do and I will not now. Leap up to Hrothgaar's top and wait awhile longer in little dignity. The two bells have went 'Gong! Gong!' and that means the kalpa has turned.""
— The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga

During an attempt to dissuade the Time Dragon God from eating kalpa, the Leaper King also mentions that Alduin is one of the very first and last spirits. We recall that for the Nordic Pantheon, Alduin is both the Creator God and the God of the Apocalypse, since he simultaneously devours the world (not even leaving a time continuum), and at the same time observes the birth of a new world, coming the very first of all. It also means that other spirits that have fallen under his bite dissolve before the end of the cycle, and do not see the birth of the world.

"The Leaper Demon King knew all this was true but still he said, "Wait, first and last of spirits, the kalpa-turning is brought too soon and I can prove it! Look over there on top of Red Mountain. See the Greedy Man waving his arms?""
— The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga

This also goes along with the fact that other Gods (Even such as the Daedric Princes) fear Alduin and his return from sleep.


"And by turns the snow whale and the dirtbird told the story, and its details, and in his magnificence did Molag Bal know that this was indeed the dream-work of Mehrunes Dagon, his brother of razors, the only Prince who dared trouble the sleep of the dragon-eater, Alduin."
— The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga

In the Nordic pantheon, Alduin and Talos are considered twilight gods that do not need temples - when they appear, there will be no point in building them, much less using them - another waste of time, since their appearance will mark the end of the kalpa, the end of the cycle. It is understood that only Talos will be able to pass unharmed into the next kalpa, while the rest of the Nord Gods are devoured by Alduin, completing the cycle of creation.

"The Twilight Gods:
The Twilight Gods need no temples– when they show up, there won’t be any reason to build them, much less use them – another waste of time. That said, Nords do venerate them, as they always venerate the cycles of things, and especially the Last War where they will show their final, best worth.

The Dragon, Alduin - Alduin is venerated on the winter solstice by ceremonies at ancient Dragon Cult temples, where offerings are made to keep him asleep for one more year. Alduin is also the source of many common superstitious practices before any event of significance.
The Dragonborn God, Talos - Talos’ totem is the newest, but is everywhere – he is the Dragonborn Conquering Son, the first new god of this cycle, whose power is consequently unknown, so the Nords bless nearly everything with his totem, since he might very well be the god of it now, too. Yes, as first of the Twilight Gods, this practice might seem contradictory, but that’s only because, of all the gods, he will be the one that survives in whole into the next cycle."
— The Nords' Totemic Religion
Click to expand...
This seems pretty important to the 1-B Dragonborn debate. If Alduin actually does eat the divine then he'd most likely scale.
 
Okay. Let's hope that Matthew is willing to help if I or somebody else unlocks pages for him then.
 
Ceoofmemes said:
This seems pretty important to the 1-B Dragonborn debate. If Alduin actually does eat the divine then he'd most likely scale.
Click to expand...
You can forget about it, the current curators are too proud to respond to changes. The profiles contradict themselves, ranging from power levels to using sources from Aldudagga to justify some convenient moments for them, while completely denying direct indications for Alduin from these same stories. bruh
 
Antvasima said:
We stillneed your help here.
Click to expand...
I don't believe there is much to be done here? The thread has been dormant for so long that I've already expressed interest in carrying parts of the revision that weren't very focused on (Or that didn't reach a proper resolution) into a new one. I'm largely free from IRL matters as of now, so, I wouldn't have an issue in doing so.
 
Okay. That is good then. We would appreciate your help in that regard.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
I don't believe there is much to be done here? The thread has been dormant for so long that I've already expressed interest in carrying parts of the revision that weren't very focused on (Or that didn't reach a proper resolution) into a new one. I'm largely free from IRL matters as of now, so, I wouldn't have an issue in doing so.
Click to expand...

I think we largely agreed to implement many of your changes.
 
It deserve another thread to focus on, also since i just start replaying Skyrim because of the Anniversary Edition, i want to re-organize Dragonborn and possibly Alduin profile, they look extremely outdated
 
Ultima_Reality said:
I don't believe there is much to be done here? The thread has been dormant for so long that I've already expressed interest in carrying parts of the revision that weren't very focused on (Or that didn't reach a proper resolution) into a new one. I'm largely free from IRL matters as of now, so, I wouldn't have an issue in doing so.
Click to expand...
Antvasima said:
Okay. That is good then. We would appreciate your help in that regard.
Click to expand...
KongKing23 said:
I think we largely agreed to implement many of your changes.
Click to expand...
@Ultima_Reality
 
Campo1uc said:
A rather entertaining debate about whether Alduin really eats in the "literal" sense of the Gods. I have proof that you may have missed

The Leaper King is one of the few primordial spirits that can survive its bite. Implying that many of the Deities disappear into Alduin's mouth. Which is actually very significant, given the physiology of Etda.


"To which Alduin roared and laughed and said, "King of Leapers, you always bounce up to me around this time (for you are one of the only spirits that can last til my last bite) and shout, 'Wait!', but I never do and I will not now. Leap up to Hrothgaar's top and wait awhile longer in little dignity. The two bells have went 'Gong! Gong!' and that means the kalpa has turned.""
— The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga

During an attempt to dissuade the Time Dragon God from eating kalpa, the Leaper King also mentions that Alduin is one of the very first and last spirits. We recall that for the Nordic Pantheon, Alduin is both the Creator God and the God of the Apocalypse, since he simultaneously devours the world (not even leaving a time continuum), and at the same time observes the birth of a new world, coming the very first of all. It also means that other spirits that have fallen under his bite dissolve before the end of the cycle, and do not see the birth of the world.

"The Leaper Demon King knew all this was true but still he said, "Wait, first and last of spirits, the kalpa-turning is brought too soon and I can prove it! Look over there on top of Red Mountain. See the Greedy Man waving his arms?""
— The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga

This also goes along with the fact that other Gods (Even such as the Daedric Princes) fear Alduin and his return from sleep.


"And by turns the snow whale and the dirtbird told the story, and its details, and in his magnificence did Molag Bal know that this was indeed the dream-work of Mehrunes Dagon, his brother of razors, the only Prince who dared trouble the sleep of the dragon-eater, Alduin."
— The Seven Fights of The Aldudagga

In the Nordic pantheon, Alduin and Talos are considered twilight gods that do not need temples - when they appear, there will be no point in building them, much less using them - another waste of time, since their appearance will mark the end of the kalpa, the end of the cycle. It is understood that only Talos will be able to pass unharmed into the next kalpa, while the rest of the Nord Gods are devoured by Alduin, completing the cycle of creation.

"The Twilight Gods:
The Twilight Gods need no temples– when they show up, there won’t be any reason to build them, much less use them – another waste of time. That said, Nords do venerate them, as they always venerate the cycles of things, and especially the Last War where they will show their final, best worth.

The Dragon, Alduin - Alduin is venerated on the winter solstice by ceremonies at ancient Dragon Cult temples, where offerings are made to keep him asleep for one more year. Alduin is also the source of many common superstitious practices before any event of significance.
The Dragonborn God, Talos - Talos’ totem is the newest, but is everywhere – he is the Dragonborn Conquering Son, the first new god of this cycle, whose power is consequently unknown, so the Nords bless nearly everything with his totem, since he might very well be the god of it now, too. Yes, as first of the Twilight Gods, this practice might seem contradictory, but that’s only because, of all the gods, he will be the one that survives in whole into the next cycle."
— The Nords' Totemic Religion
Click to expand...


Why are we skipping over this? this is some pretty concrete scaling for alduin and by extension miraak and the last Dovaakhin



this when considering this statement.

"his magnificence did Molag Bal know that this was indeed the dream-work of Mehrunes Dagon, his brother of razors, the only Prince who dared trouble the sleep of the dragon-eater, Alduin"

would outright mean that Alduin is above the likes of the princes of oblivion meaning that he and everyone scaling to him would be bummeped up to high 1-B of the bat

and with the whole argument of alduin not being in his world devourer state is kinda meh to be honest because it is never stated that alduin is weakened or lost any and all power the best that can be said for the power of alduin in and outside the world devouring state (which we don't really even know if he has as we base the assumption of his world devourer state of a folk tale and not any concrete statements or showings) is that we can assume that he is not as strong as he would be in it. Then comes the question how much stronger than can we assume he is in the world devourer state or how much weaker he is outside it? we don't have concrete statements or feats to say that alduin is all of a sudden not even an infinite'th as strong as he was during the stories that outright demonstrate his scaling to et'adra and the daedra.

So the best we can say is that even if he is weaker than his world eater state he would still downscale from it meaning he would still be high 1-B just on the lower end and that would scale to both miraak and the dragonborn as the dragonborn was able to battle alduin and take hits from him and damage him even without Dragonrend being able to take attacks from alduin and even damage him in his flight which no matter how you look at it would result in the dragon born scaling to alduins power.
 
This is a very old thread at this point, what's not resolved still?
 
Admittedly I've been distracted both by IRL matters and by other projects I started working on. We can probably just close this thread and open another one at a later date.
 
Fairly certain this was largely accepted at the time anyway, so the only thing left to do here anyway would be to actually edit the profiles the bane of every revision.

Closing.
 
Well, revisions should preferably be applied before we close threads, as a standard praxis.
 
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