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Immeasurable speed characters updating

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Kukui:

Moving beyond time itself via sheer speed can probably be a qualifier, but it must be be reasonably reliably portrayed. If a character that is normally portrayed as Supersonic simply enters a realm that is stated to be beyond time, and moves around there anyway without any further explanation, that s obviously not reliable at all.

@DontTalkDT

Would you be willing to help out here please?
 
If those are the requirements for immeasurable then immeasurable speed for BlazBlue should be legit. There’s an actual statement on the Boundary transcending time and space, but it’s even more elaborated on how anyone who enters the boundary can travel to alternate timelines or across the past, or future. And they have to do it through movement, there’s no portals or time machines or any FTL equates to time travel thing that the series uses, the characters just enters the realm and move through the realm to go through alternate realities. That’s how it’s always been. And plenty of them live in the boundary so it should count for them to be immeasurable. And then there’s also the whole “attacking someone’s past self” with a weapon thing that happens in the 3rd game that would scale to a bunch of different characters due to the power scaling across multiple different weapons and powers.
 
Antvasima said:
Kukui:

Moving beyond time itself via sheer speed can probably be a qualifier, but it must be be reasonably reliably portrayed. If a character that is normally portrayed as Supersonic simply enters a realm that is stated to be beyond time, and moves around there anyway without any further explanation, that s obviously not reliable at all.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, absolutely. Whether the feat itself is an outlier or inconsistent with portrayed showings is a different story, and if it’s not consistent, it’s never getting applied. 100% agreeing with that.

My concern was moreso about whether it would qualify in the first place.
 
Theglassman12:

That seems like a quality of the Boundary realm itself, rather than the characters that enter it.

If they cannot transcend time on their own in normal space, they do not seem to qualify.
 
Kukui:

We have repeatedly extensively discussed why moving in timeless realms does not qualify on its own. Transcending time via one's own movement is a very different issue.
 
Oh yes, my apologies if I wasn’t clear about what I was trying to explain.

So just so we can end this and get back to the main topic, as long as the feat is consistent and is established as a speed feat, freely traveling to a higher dimension that’s proven to transcend time and space can count as immeasurable like how freely traveling through linear time can grant immeasurable?
 
I think so, yes, but simply travelling to another realm that is stated to be beyond time, and moving around there without any explanation, while being unfathomably slower normally, does not qualify.
 
@Antvasima There’s a character that’s literally an out of control gate of the boundary that time travels all the time, the top tier characters can keep up with that being, shouldn’t that by default scale? and what about my whole thing about the weapons and abilities attacking people in the past?
 
So I guess I was supposed to comment on this comment?
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Since you seem to now see the main issue I’m trying to point out, I’ll only focus on these bits so the thread doesn’t get anymore derailed by irrelevant stuff.

Simply put, the main confusion with the current standards I have is that we accept freely moving through linear time at will as immeasurable speed, but for lack of explained reasoning, someone who could freely move beyond time all together with movement isn’t qualified for the same exact rating. To make sure you get a clear picture of what I’m trying to say, let’s use this as an example:

opposite-arrays.png

Let’s take this line, with points X, Z and Y.

X represents the past
Z represents the present
Y represents the future

Based on how the current standards work, freely moving from Y (the future) to X (the past) or from Z (the present) to Y (the future) would be immeasurable speed. Freely moving throughout the line segment, which in this case, is linear time.

This is where the problem comes now. Let’s say a character can freely move into a higher dimension that’s proven to transcend space and time. And by freely, I mean it’s a speed feat and not some teleportation or whatever. That means, instead of them simply moving between points X, Z and Y, aka moving between the past, present and future, they are moving beyond all 3 of them entirely.

This is my main issue with the current standards. And if there’s an explanation for why we don’t accept the latter, someone please explain it to me.

Because I’m not understanding how someone who’s freely able to move beyond all of what linear time is (which actually should still count moving through linear time and then some) cannot get the same speed rating as someone who can only move throughout linear time and nothing else.
Click to expand...
Depends on what beyond and transcends means. Does beyond mean you can also move backwards through time? Then yes.
Does beyond just mean you move along a fourth-dimensional axis, so that you are now outside the 3+1 dimensions of usual spacetime, but can't freely change your position in time? Then no.

I think a good thing to ask oneself to differentiate is if the situation logically implies that the character can react to and block an attack that is launched on its own past.
 
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Thank you DontTalk. I appreciate the help.
 
DontTalkDT said:
So I guess I was supposed to comment on this comment?

Depends on what beyond and transcends means. Does beyond mean you can also move backwards through time? Then yes.
Does beyond just mean you move along a fourth-dimensional axis, so that you are now outside the 3+1 dimensions of usual spacetime, but can't freely change your position in time? Then no.
Click to expand...
Could you elaborate more on what I bolded out if you can?

If you move along a 4-D axis freely, why wouldn’t you be able to freely change your position in 3-D time?
 
The SCP characters I'm familiar with simply have statements that "time is a useless concept for them" and exist outside of the multiverse. They both lack feats of moving through time via sheer speed, and lack anti-feats of moving at normal speeds in normal realms.

I can't tell if Kukui's proposal would give them Immeasurable or not.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Could you elaborate more on what I bolded out if you can?

If you move along a 4-D axis freely, why wouldn’t you be able to freely change your position in 3-D time?
Click to expand...
There is no "3D time". Time is axis that is not bound to space. A direction if you so want. Forwards and backwards isn't bound to how many other directions exist. For time it is the same.
A fourth spatial axis isn't special. It is in nature the same as forward/backwards, left/right, up/down. It's just one more.
Take one dimension away and it becomes quite obvious why the number of spatial dimensions has nothing to do with speed or moving through time. A being that can only move on the surface of a piece of paper can only move in a 2D world, with 1 time dimension. Yet a 3D being isn't faster than it or capable of moving to the 2D beings past or anything like that.

Position in time and position in space are completely independent, regardless of the number of dimensions.
 
DontTalkDT said:
There is no "3D time". Time is axis that is not bound to space. A direction if you so want. Forwards and backwards isn't bound to how many other directions exist. For time it is the same.
A fourth spatial axis isn't special. It is in nature the same as forward/backwards, left/right, up/down. It's just one more.
Take one dimension away and it becomes quite obvious why the number of spatial dimensions has nothing to do with speed or moving through time. A being that can only move on the surface of a piece of paper can only move in a 2D world, with 1 time dimension. Yet a 3D being isn't faster than it or capable of moving to the 2D beings past or anything like that.

Position in time and position in space are completely independent, regardless of the number of dimensions.
Click to expand...
So basically if u are stated to be unbound by time in the sence that u can travel thro it via speed alone in any direction u want it would qualify?
 
Manipulating higher dimensions isn’t what I’m talking about though, that’s not a speed feat.

The case I’m referring to is when someone’s physically enters a higher dimension from whatever point in time they were present in.
 
Entering a higher spatial dimension has no reason to give a notable speed rating.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Manipulating higher dimensions isn’t what I’m talking about though, that’s not a speed feat.

The case I’m referring to is when someone’s physically enters a higher dimension from whatever point in time they were present in.
Click to expand...

She was able to enter a higher dimensions from where ever too. That was part of her manipulation.

But for you situation, if you can prove that other characters can only enter this higher dimensional place via a time travel device or ability then I can see gaining immeasurable speed for being able , like for example:

Doctor Who uses his Tardis to move to different spaces and time. If a character from doctor Who can physically travel to a space that the only the tardis can get too, then I can see that counts as an example of immeasurable speed.
 
Agnaa said:
Entering a higher spatial dimension has no reason to give a notable speed rating.
Click to expand...
Like I said before, if it’s proven to transcend time and space, and you can freely move throughout it, then it should be able to get the rating as it should be superior to simply moving throughout linear time.

Example: Character A is from the future and in his verse, higher dimensions exist beyond space and time. He physically moves from the future to 4-D space and can go from 4-D space back to his point in time.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
She was able to enter a higher dimensions from where ever too. That was part of her manipulation.

But for you situation, if you can prove that other characters can only enter this higher dimensional place via a time travel device or ability then I can see gaining immeasurable speed for being able , like for example:

Doctor Who uses his Tardis to move to different spaces and time. If a character from doctor Who can physically travel to a space that the only the tardis can get too, then I can see that counts as an example of immeasurable speed.
Click to expand...
Ah my bad then on the Sailor Moon point.

Anyways, yes, this should also count. Isnt the distance between universes normally in 5-D space anyway or something?
 
ElixirBlue said:
Question, as I have a speed upgrade in mind but unsure how to rate it.

Let say a weapon fired and reached every Universe in the infinite multiverse. The in-story time was finite (1 billionth of a second) but the Encyclopedia stated it was instant.

Would finite time to reach infinite Universes count as infinite speed and what would Instant mean reaching infinite Universes translate to for speed?
Click to expand...
Please do not ask unrelated questions in threads. Make another thread for this question.
 
ElixirBlue said:
Question, as I have a speed upgrade in mind but unsure how to rate it.

Let say a weapon fired and reached every Universe in the infinite multiverse. The in-story time was finite (1 billionth of a second) but the Encyclopedia stated it was instant.

Would finite time to reach infinite Universes count as infinite speed and what would Instant mean reaching infinite Universes translate to for speed?
Click to expand...
ElixirBlue said:
I was told that the statement makes the feat immeasurable for reaching infinite distance through the multiverse in an instant from 1 universe, that’s why I’m asking here.
Click to expand...
Crossing an infinite distance on finite time is infinite but not immesurable
 
Agnaa said:
Make another thread.

This isn't the immeasurable speed FAQ thread.
Click to expand...
Thank you. Strongly agreed.

Can we please permanently move on from repeating the same questions over and over and over and over, and focus on updating all of the character pages that shouldn't have the rating instead? Thank you.
 
I have now moved my own questions I asked here to its own thread to let you know.

My bad for the derailing I caused and you can delete the replies I made if necessary
 
No problem, but it is too late to do anything about all of the combined extreme degrees of derailing from yourself and others. There are probably over 200 posts of it at this point, so I would appreciate if you all avoid behaving like this again in the future. It prevents us from getting anything constructive done, and wastes the time and energy of everybody involved.

Anyway, I would also greatly appreciate help to organise this thread to get back on track, or to create a new one with all of the relevant information regarding the characters that need to have their profile pages revised.
 
Okay. Would you be willing to handle it please? You can link to the new thread here afterwards.
 
I can post if you want, should it be in the content revision section?

I was thinking about something like this, based off what was said in this thread:

This thread purpose is for determining the eligibility of the Immeasurable Speed rating for these characters:

Blazblue: Master Unit: Amaterasu

Bobobo: Bobobo-bo Bo-bobo

Lord of the Rings: Morgoth

Warhammer 40, 000: Magnus the Red

SCPverse: Mekhane

Digimon: Alphamon

Guilty Gear: Sol Badguy & Sin Kiske

Shin Megami Tensei: Morax

The Elder Scrolls: Alduin

Transformers: Vector Prime and Unicron


We ask that knowledgeable members of these series comment with the appropriate scans, information, or evidence of these characters' rating of Immeasurable Speed.

Note that these scans should contain a feat or reliable statement of the character being able to:

A. Traveling through time via physical speed only, and not through any ability, special circumstance, device, or separate area or realm. Character must be able to do this feat anywhere or anywhen in the series.

B. Character's action having an effect on another character or the world before the character does the action

C. Perceive all infinitely fast things as frozen

D. Their reactions speeds are faster than instantaneous

E. They can dodge an attack that already has been struct

F. They can attack anyone in the past or future

The purpose for this thread is to simply for members to post the information or scans for their characters. It is not to debate what constitutes as immeasurable speed. It is for members to come up with a evidence of the character being able to do any of A through F. Post the scans and let the mods and other knowledgeable members decide if it fits into any of the categories.
Click to expand...

If there is no objections I can post it as shown.
 
I'm not sure about A, I feel like certain areas/realms ought to be able to give characters immeasurable speed for those realms.

iirc I'm pretty sure one verse has a realm which human-ish characters can access, and from which they can destroy universes. I think it's fine for us to include stuff like that on profiles, as long as it's properly specified.

Other than E being worded awkwardly, I think that's a fine OP to give the thread. Might want to include the possibility of discussing Immeasurable ratings for more characters that haven't already been approved under the new standards thought? I'm not sure.
 
how about an asterik for A

that's: *characters can get immeasurable speed listed through special distinctions on their profile, example: Superman mftl+, immeasurable (via time travel)
 
Only ones I see that are legit here are Morgoth, Morax, Alphamon, Alduin and Vector Prime

As for the realms being immesurable, I can see it like i said before in my example

"MFTL, immesurable on X realm"
 
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