Immeasurable speed characters updating second round

[Theuser789]

I am not mad, just frustated and extremely disappointed

 

[Greenshifter]

Hold up so Wally West can get immeasurable speed for moving in the fourth dimension (disregard his other feats that i mentioned for a sec), yet solaris who is a superdimensional being who exists in the entirety of the 4th dimension can be fought with a finite speed by our new standards? Wth.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Originally, travelling through the 4th dimension is just a dimensional travel or time travel ability. Pre-Crisis Superman is about to have his Immeasurable speed removed for similar reasons. Wally is Immeasurable for his "Outpacing instant transmission" feat among other things AMA.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Sorry to interrupt, but should I post my justification here DDM, or should I wait for you to check it out?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I posted in the blog.

 

[Greenshifter]

The instant transmission is accepted to be technically instantaneous since it also travels through the 4th dimension. There is still other stuff of course. But i don't see why we can't assume that a being who lives in the 4th dimension is faster than instantaneous by default.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Oh, lemme look.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I posted in the blog.

I gave a response.

 

[00potato]

I'm talking about comics and books my man if the omnipresent guy fights like a normal person then his omnipresence doesn't mean much for combat.

Same issue for comics since it’s still a visual medium.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You just have to draw individual panels man.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

Question, wouldn't the "Faster than Instaneous teleportation" be a "above baseline infinite speed feat?" regarding the flash.

Edit: i am not a comic fan so im not sure how things work regarding Speedforce, and DC. I'm just asking out of genuine curiosity.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Surely that is Immeasurable.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Faster than instantly is probably the most concrete example of an Immeasurable reaction speed feat.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Alovenus and Ruphas should be immeasurable cause they are multiple degrees of infinity faster than infinite speed

 

[Rikimarox2]

^That's what I wanted to say

Actually, if you are faster than instantaneous, you get immeasurable speed. Why shouldn't it be the same case for Alovenus and ruphas? Both of them are infinitely faster than infinite.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Whether it's infinite or immeasurable, it gets real absurd since their speed keeps increasing.

Benetnash was already faster than infinity, and Alovenus low diff her, and that was before she got in her childish fight with Ruphas of continuously infinitely increasing her stats.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Yeee, their speed is ******* absurd all around.

However, I just wanna know if being faster than instantaneous is enough to warrant Immeasurable speed. Because, if that was the case, wouldn't any who's faster than infinite speed be Immeasurable?

 

[ElixirBlue]

Because, if that was the case, wouldn't any who's faster than infinite speed be Immeasurable?

How fast do you need to be? Just faster than someone or something moving infinite speed?

 

[Rikimarox2]

They said that if you faster than instant, you can be immeasurable. Evident by this:

Faster than instantly is probably the most concrete example of an Immeasurable reaction speed feat.

Infinite is basically instant, so shouldn't this logically make anyone who is faster than an infinite character immeasurable speed

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

They said that if you faster than instant, you can be immeasurable. Evident by this:


Infinite is basically instant, so shouldn't this logically make anyone who is faster than an infinite character immeasurable speed

I know you can get above baseline infinite speed, but it depends on context of the scene or the character overall in the series.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I know you can get above baseline infinite speed, but it depends on context of the scene or the character overall in the series.

Aw, really? Can you give me 2 example of what context gives you above baseline infinite and what context gives you immeasurable?

 

[Rikimarox2]

I know you can get above baseline infinite speed, but it depends on context of the scene or the character overall in the series.

If we go by this logic, then being faster than instant shouldn't grant immeasurable speed.

Aw, really? Can you give me 2 example of what context gives you above baseline infinite and what context gives you immeasurable?

If what Unshakable said is true, then Benetnash is above baseline infinite speed, and so does everyone who upscales from her.

 

[ElixirBlue]

But isn't moving faster than Instant still Immeasurable?

 

[Rikimarox2]

I honestly think so too, but I think we should wait for DDM, or some staff members.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I think it only applies to something like X-Character is has Infinite speed everything but Y-Character can punch faster, dodge sooner, move faster. But he only "barely" edges in the fight. "Narrowly dodging" etc

Edit: It's not an explored topic but I've seen a few staff mentioning the idea of it on Q&A threads, and verus threads.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Being able to move any where and anywhen at speeds faster than instantly is the text book definition of Immeasurable speed on the profile.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Then, by your definition, shouldn't any character that is faster than an infinite character be immeasurable? Or do they have to travel in time or smth?

 

[ElixirBlue]

Being able to move any where and anywhen at speeds faster than instantly is the text book definition of Immeasurable speed on the profile.

Wow, my head hurts. I just made a realization about something but I need to spend time trying to debunk myself on this idea like I did with the Robotnik scaling if I want it to work. God, pls, don't go back on your word saying this is the textbook definition.

 

[Antvasima]

Changing the rules as a direct response is a literal concession lmfao.

This posts reeks of false equivalence and rat tactics.

You need to cut down on the mocking and rude accusations, and show some respect. Medeus is a nice guy who works extremely hard to help this community. He is very sincere in this endeavour, not intentionally underhanded.

 

[Antvasima]

I'll update the footnotes to the Omnipresent Space-Time descriptions, but I'm in the middle of debating a few controversial threads or about to. But this is basically the paragraph I'd like to change.

A being that is not only omnipresent throughout space, but also time, would also be able to react to every attack from a being with normal speed before the opponent would even begin to throw the attack. This is the case because such a being would exist throughout all of time, experiencing past, presence and future at once while not being bound to the normal flow of time.

It causes confusion because the wording isn't exactly they're reacting every character with normal speed via sheer speed, but rather that they already reached them without even trying due to being already there before they attacked. I would probably change it to something like this.

A being that is not only omnipresent throughout space, but also time, would be evading every attack from a being with normal speed without actually needing to react to it. They're already there both before they attacked, while they're attacking, and after they already attacked. Their perception of time of time would be unbounded from time, but this may not have effect on their reactions. Said characters may logically be able to land hits on characters with Immeasurable speed, but it may not count as Immeasurable attack speed but rather the sheer area of effect may reach due to the Immeasurable speed character lacking space to avoid it.

I'm open for better wording or possibly better language flow. And in addition to that, I may add another paragraph.

It is relatively common in fiction for a non omnipresent character to fight on par with a space-time omnipresent character. These fight scenes should be analyzed case by case but it's not a default assumption for the former character to have Immeasurable speeds. Just because a character who is omnipresent across time is not evidence for Immeasurable combat speeds or reactions. Simply having temporal omnipresence does necessary make every attack the Omnipresent character attacks have the necessary area of effect. And it also does not always require Immeasurable speed to evade and attack with temporal area of effects as some characters with Acausality or Dimensional Travel may be capable of evading it even with finite reactions.

Same as the last proposal, I'm also open for better language flow suggestions.

Thank you for helping out, and I know that you have a good grasp of how immeasurable speed works. However, I find the above wording a bit messy and hard to understand for our visitors.

@AKM sama @Promestein @DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @Sera_EX

Do you have any suggestions for how it could be reworded to work better in these regards?

 

[00potato]

You just have to draw individual panels man.

Yeah just draw it man.
This is “just sell you house and move logic.” It is pretty much impossible to draw in a consistently clear manner.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Plenty of artists can do it with more abstract art or even just narration. You can always take the Marvel Co-Out and say "This fight is just a visual representation so you don't go insane, reader" in a narration box.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Marvel and DC aren’t great examples for it being common, because of how the wiki treats everything Marvel and DC has even done.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

This reply doesn't address any raised points. If Marvel can do it your verse has no excuse.

 

[00potato]

Plenty of artists can do it with more abstract art or even just narration. You can always take the Marvel Co-Out and say "This fight is just a visual representation so you don't go insane, reader" in a narration box.

That is exactly what lore suggests though.
It serves the same role as that narration, just like in sonic, (that includes a bit of narrative as well.)

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I posted in the blog.

I’ll wait for you to look at my response, I got Grath to look at it too, if there are no changes then I’ll likely make a CRT in the coming month.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Antvasima I do agree the language flow is difficult to understand, but I may have other experts take a look at the details yes.

@Milly_Rocking_Bandit I commented on the blog.

 

[Theuser789]

I definitvely agree the language should be changed because as it currently is feels too much as a direct response to a single thread, and standard should be far more generalized

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Thank you for helping out, and I know that you have a good grasp of how immeasurable speed works. However, I find the above wording a bit messy and hard to understand for our visitors.

May I ask you look at my blog and see if immeasurable stacks up? DDM agrees.

 

[Antvasima]

Can you link to it please? I make no promises though. I am overworked to the point of having a headache.